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beneficii
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08 May 2013, 11:32 am

Does anyone else do this? Ever since I was a teenager and was taught things like social skills, I've always been watching the way I interact with people. It's downright frustrating, too. When I react with people for a long period of time, I feel like my limited repertoire of scripts is starting to get "stale." Even as somebody tries to get closer to me to being a friend, I still go through all my scripts, and I find I cannot bear being with that person; I'm telling myself, OK, show your interest in friendship, nod at the right times, say the right responses--oh no, don't smile in response to when she's talking about her dead cat! Also, if a conversation doesn't seem to end quite right, I'll start thinking ridiculous things like, Oh no, I just gave him the impression that I'm going to hunt him down and wait till he's alone and then victimize him! Why do people always seem to think that of me? I feel so misunderstood. I then have to tiptoe around the person in question, to not seem overbearing around them, even though I know they probably didn't think that of me in the first place.

Then again, it seems necessary. I don't even know how to interact without that self-monitoring. In addition, I have noticed that I will get the urge to smile at times where it would be inappropriate, like when they're talking about somebody that died, so I feel I must intervene to shut that down. This started in my teen years, and even occasionally, I will still feel the smiling tickle in my stomach and the sides of my mouth tightening up in those situations and I will immediately move to resist it.



AgentPalpatine
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08 May 2013, 11:34 am

:Sigh: If only our daily intereactions wern't so driven by non-verbal communication.....we would'nt have so many of these issues.


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08 May 2013, 12:05 pm

Always, starting from my first evaluations at work nearly 11 years ago.


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redrobin62
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08 May 2013, 12:15 pm

As I'm getting older, I realize my political corretness is going down the toilet. I try, even on WP, to say the right thing but the truth just bursts forth and I get yelled at anyway. I've been trying to go to these meetup groups but I just have a feeling it'll all go bust. Somebody will say something stupid, I'll remain quiet but erupt inside like a volcano, and either I'll say the wrong thing or just make some excuse and leave.



AudioSperg
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08 May 2013, 12:20 pm

The process you describe is, I think, simply a fact of life for those of us with ASDs.
There are few consolations, but if you're anything like me, you're a damned sight better at it at 29 years of age than you were a decade ago.
I have found it best to ignore the more extreme feelings of failure, unless given clear reason to do so by those interacting with me. Put simply, we end up paying a lot more attention to these cues simply because we have to. In frank discussions with close NT friends on this topic, it quickly becomes clear that in the vast majority of cases they don't even notice. My hypothesis is that any given NT is generally thinking about their own self, where we often will be frantically processing input from the NT to make sense of said input.
Not much of a silver lining, I know. Personally I figure that if you manage to successfully interact with NTs at all then it should be considered a triumph. There are after all those of us who never manage it.



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08 May 2013, 12:22 pm

Constantly. Every waking moment of every day of my life.

I used to be able to relax with my kids, just enjoy them or just teach them-- just raise them and just be.

Then I realized that people watch us every second that we're out in public, and that I have to be in private the way I am in public too if I don't want them to know that "out" is the time when they can get away with anything because I won't dare correct them (or conversely "out" is the time when they have to be perfect, because I'll be watching them with a magnifying glass).

And I realized that, once I send them to school, my parenting will be evaluated in every single action they take, and I will always be found wanting.

So now even with them, even when we're alone, it's as if there is someone watching.

There is no such place as "off-stage." There is no such person as "me." I am nothing more or less than a walking, talking send-through-proper-channels program.

I get up in the morning and put the programming on; if I get a slow start and life starts before Windows, all hell breaks loose.

And it's all my fault. My husband told me this morning that he's ready to leave me because he's tired of the program and wants me back. Well, I instituted the program because he told me he was ready to leave me because he was tired of the misunderstandings, disagreements, and stress.

I can't stop self-monitoring; I can't even manage to be good enough at self-monitoring to make myself a reasonable facsimilie of a neurotypical woman.

I am reminded of some blog post I saw somewhere. It was a photograph of a poster from an ABA program; the gist of the post was, "If you had to remember 25 different rules just to exchange a greeting, you wouldn't speak either."

That's definitely how I feel.


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beneficii
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08 May 2013, 12:34 pm

AudioSperg wrote:
The process you describe is, I think, simply a fact of life for those of us with ASDs.
There are few consolations, but if you're anything like me, you're a damned sight better at it at 29 years of age than you were a decade ago.
I have found it best to ignore the more extreme feelings of failure, unless given clear reason to do so by those interacting with me. Put simply, we end up paying a lot more attention to these cues simply because we have to. In frank discussions with close NT friends on this topic, it quickly becomes clear that in the vast majority of cases they don't even notice. My hypothesis is that any given NT is generally thinking about their own self, where we often will be frantically processing input from the NT to make sense of said input.
Not much of a silver lining, I know. Personally I figure that if you manage to successfully interact with NTs at all then it should be considered a triumph. There are after all those of us who never manage it.


The problem is that it gets in the way of being able to form actual friendships. You are supposed to be able to relax and feel at ease when you are with friends.



AudioSperg
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08 May 2013, 12:59 pm

beneficii wrote:
AudioSperg wrote:
The process you describe is, I think, simply a fact of life for those of us with ASDs.
There are few consolations, but if you're anything like me, you're a damned sight better at it at 29 years of age than you were a decade ago.
I have found it best to ignore the more extreme feelings of failure, unless given clear reason to do so by those interacting with me. Put simply, we end up paying a lot more attention to these cues simply because we have to. In frank discussions with close NT friends on this topic, it quickly becomes clear that in the vast majority of cases they don't even notice. My hypothesis is that any given NT is generally thinking about their own self, where we often will be frantically processing input from the NT to make sense of said input.
Not much of a silver lining, I know. Personally I figure that if you manage to successfully interact with NTs at all then it should be considered a triumph. There are after all those of us who never manage it.


The problem is that it gets in the way of being able to form actual friendships. You are supposed to be able to relax and feel at ease when you are with friends.


That's what I'm trying to say. We may not be able to turn the process off altogether, but it is possible to learn which of its outputs is worthy of attention.
It is not easy. It's taken me up until the last year or two to feel comfortable and secure around people I started building relationships with ten years ago. Even now I sometimes catch myself berating myself for mistakes that, when questioned, no one else noticed.
It is possible to achieve competence in this area, but it is difficult and has taken me a long time.
It helps to 'aim' for people who are somewhat on the social 'fringes' themselves. They tend to be more accepting of slightly quirky behaviour than the folk you see in bars at the weekend with the cookie cutter dress code and the latest trendy haircut.
Pick and choose, persist, learn to recognise when you should and should not criticise yourself. Eventually you will make NT friends with whom you can discuss these issues frankly, and your confidence in your own ability will snowball.
It is hard, takes a great deal of time, and without doubt you will fail (as I do) occasionally. You'll triumph more often than not, and although the anxiety never vanishes, it rarely gets in the way.



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08 May 2013, 1:34 pm

This seems to be a common problem. I frequently find that I have opened my big mouth and said the wrong thing at the wrong time. However, on the plus side, I believe that we should say what we think and be honest with our opinions and speak the truth, letting the chips fall where they may. This is my approach now, but remember that I am 67 and retired, so I have much less to lose by being more open with my opinions. Yes, old age does have some benefits, but not many. :cry: When I was working, I was MUCH more cautious about speaking my opinions. The real issue here is the environment that you are in. The workplace generally requires more awareness of what you say, as does interacting with people you do not know very well. Family, or close friends would allow more freedom of speach. Relationships and environments are a continum and it takes some experience and practice in order to match your openness to those conditions.


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beneficii
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08 May 2013, 1:52 pm

I find that even with the quirky people I still engage in intense self-monitoring. :(



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08 May 2013, 2:30 pm

It's necessary for me to do so to be able to talk with people. If I relax that tendency I will steamroll right over the conversation, and talk at them instead. I can usually pick up on annoyed expressions, and assume that's what I'm doing instead of listening properly. I know I have to ask questions to show an interest, but my brain just doesn't work that way so I try to translate into "social speak" for lack of a better term.



beneficii
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08 May 2013, 3:37 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
It's necessary for me to do so to be able to talk with people. If I relax that tendency I will steamroll right over the conversation, and talk at them instead. I can usually pick up on annoyed expressions, and assume that's what I'm doing instead of listening properly. I know I have to ask questions to show an interest, but my brain just doesn't work that way so I try to translate into "social speak" for lack of a better term.


Ja, but does it ever get so extreme for you that you're worried that you've left the impression that you intend to victimize the person?

Also, I find that when someone talks about someone they care about having died, I get the urge to smile. And as we continue through the conversation, I feel like I'm holding in laughter that may break out at any moment. I'm horrified at it and it makes me feel like I'm a psychopath. Do you ever get this?



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08 May 2013, 3:40 pm

I'm incapable of that kind of self-monitoring, nor would I want to do it if I could.

Far better to hold out for the people who accept me as I really am instead of playing a constant act.



beneficii
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08 May 2013, 3:57 pm

Ettina wrote:
I'm incapable of that kind of self-monitoring, nor would I want to do it if I could.

Far better to hold out for the people who accept me as I really am instead of playing a constant act.


I'm envious. :)