What was autism called in ancient times?

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logitechdog
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18 Jan 2007, 8:42 am

Really they should approach autism without applying any of their values, as it seems their blinded that we are disabled Extroverted people, most people don't accept that their is such a thing as Introverted, if one can not remove they value system you will always be blinded by your own values, own kind, & own dilution of everyone using the same system, 1 thing might mean something to you than another person might not care, they always want to protect their value system, you either throw information out, don't listen at all, only take in what you want to hear or take action to prove its true while it would be true with the lack of effort put in or closed as they can't find anything else and apply it to they own value system as been right... This can happen in the same group under the false of everyone having the same right and wrong, this is where the term remove yourself & place yourself in someone else’s shoes (you can't do it if you apply your value system to them and not just approach it with a open ended super gate of possible outcomes than apply your own and then approach as the person will always disagree with you or correct you then they will insult you as you think your always right...

An extroverted person explaining an introvert

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atheist/agnostic tendencies, unconcerned with public image, lower energy level, does not value tradition, avoidant, does not put the welfare of others above self, not punctual, unproductive, does not believe in human goodness, not easily moved to tears, seldom bothered by the suffering of strangers, insensitive to the needs of others, relaxed, quiet around strangers, tendency to believe only in self, people have trouble reading them but they don't care, late finishing work, acts without planning, withdrawn, rarely too busy, not a perfectionist, uncooperative, not prone to complimenting people, does not believe in life after death, avoids crowds, prefers unpredictable to organized, not passionate about bettering the world's condition, does not second guess self, able to control cravings, calm in crisis, ambivalent to the feelings of others, believes in the importance of art, dislikes small talk, socially uncomfortable, private, not known for generosity, acts without consulting others, hard to get to know, not easily frustrated, interested in intellectual pursuits, not open about feelings, loner, asks many questions, open to change, influenced more by self than others, bored at work



SteveK
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18 Jan 2007, 9:59 am

An AS persons view on a biased contrary perspective:

1. atheist/agnostic tendencies

SO? NTs make it EASY with hypocrisy, etc...

2. unconcerned with public image

Why should we be concerned with how they percieve us? They obviously aren't fair with US

3. lower energy level

YEAH RIGHT!(sarc) Have they really seen an AS person at their best?

4. does not value tradition

Why should WE value THEIRS ANYWAY? Frankly, I value tradition a LOT! I like the idea of marriages, respect, personal space, etc... Maybe THEY should learn what the word TRADITION means!

5. avoidant

And we should just stand and take it? NO THANKS!

6. does not put the welfare of others above self

Actually, I DO, if they aren't selfish, etc...!

7. not punctual

YEAH, I used to get to places too early, and leave work too late. SO???

8. unproductive

See #7!

9. does not believe in human goodness

Well, I once DID! They say AS people are supposed to be innocent and gullible. I guess that was a symptom.

10. not easily moved to tears

So what purpose does THAT serve?

11. seldom bothered by the suffering of strangers, insensitive to the needs of others

Well, I USED to be! I still am to a degree.

12. relaxed, quiet around strangers

YEAH! These are GOOD things!

13. tendency to believe only in self

Wasn't it an NT that said "If you want something done right, do it yourself"?

14. people have trouble reading them but they don't care

And what right do they have to even ATTEMPT that? The last person to "try" nearly got me fired. NEXT time, I'll get the A.D.A on them!

15. late finishing work

YEAH RIGHT!(sarc) I'm usually the FIRST done!

16. acts without planning

I don't even go to the store without planning which shelf I will go to!

17. withdrawn

OK, you got me there! 8-(

18. rarely too busy

And that's a BAD thing?

19. not a perfectionist

I USED to be! NTs broke me of that habit.

20. uncooperative

See above!

21. not prone to complimenting people

I DO, when they deserve it!
22. does not believe in life after death

See #1

23. avoids crowds

WOW, that's a BAD thing?

24. prefers unpredictable to organized

YEAH right! (sarc)

25. not passionate about bettering the world's condition

I'd LOVE to! I EVEN almost wrote a letter to carter to tell him how to solve a lot of problems, and it would have gotten him a second term AND prevented 9/11!! !! !! ! I figured he wasn't serious, and aborted the attempt!

BTW I credit CARTER with making me a republican, and my first political action was to try to PREVENT carters reelection! I guess others felt the same way!

26. does not second guess self

HEY, I'm open to accpting new info!

27. able to control cravings, calm in crisis

HEY, more GOOD stuff!

28. ambivalent to the feelings of others

See above!

29. believes in the importance of art

Where do they get THIS from?

30. dislikes small talk, socially uncomfortable, private

YEP, that makes us introverts. 8-(

31. not known for generosity

Actually, I HAVE been. After paying THOUSANDS personally, and 10s of thousands to charities, I'm THROUGH!

32. acts without consulting others

Actually, I consult with others too much.

33. hard to get to know

TRY HARDER!! !! !

34. not easily frustrated, interested in intellectual pursuits, not open about feelings

WOW, MORE good stuff!

35. loner

See thirty!

36. asks many questions, open to change

HUH? You contradict 32!

37. influenced more by self than others

ANOTHER good thing!

38. bored at work

Most NTs ARE, and most AS people AREN'T if they love their job!

Steve



9CatMom
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18 Jan 2007, 10:21 am

Where did this list come from? Virtually none of it applies to me. I was typically one of the last ones finished with a test, but that was because I bothered to check over my work before handing it in. I got grades in the 90-100 percent range while some of the fast finishers flunked.



logitechdog
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18 Jan 2007, 11:01 am

You can put 1% in viewing content infront of you and matching it from a quote that is above it ;) :twisted:



paulsinnerchild
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18 Jan 2007, 7:12 pm

IMHO the "dumb" label which literally means "one who cannot speak" as there were deaf and dumb asylums established long before before the word "autism" was ever used. Long before I was diagnosed I was assumed I was deaf until I was taken to a hearing specialist and he concluded there was nothing wrong with my hearing at all. If I was born 100 earlier I could have been sent to one of the asylums for the deaf and dumb with a greater emphasis on the dumb.

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Dumb was formerly used to refer to persons unable to speak; it is now used almost entirely of the inability of animals to speak: dumb beasts of the field. The term mute is applied to persons who, usually because of congenital deafness, have never learned to talk: With training most mutes learn to speak well enough to be understood. Either of the foregoing terms or speechless may describe a temporary inability to speak, caused by emotion, etc.: dumb with amazement; mute with terror; left speechless by surprise. Voiceless means literally having no voice, either from natural causes or from injury: Turtles are voiceless. A laryngectomy leaves a person voiceless until he or she has learned esophageal speech.


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18 Jan 2007, 7:48 pm

well, aspergers wasn't discovered until 1943, and not widely know until 1981, and it wasn't published in any diagnosis books until 1994 in the US.
they probably thought an aspie was just rude in those times. for people with it really bad, they probably thought that the parents were being punished by god, or the kid had part of the devil in them.


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Yupa
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18 Jan 2007, 8:41 pm

TG wrote:
I bet Jesus was an Aspie. He knew a lot of cool s**t and couldn't get a date... :wink:


He was more of an awesome and respectable bullshitter...
Though I do admire the BS in question... it's still a pretty good system to live one's life by.



Yupa
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18 Jan 2007, 8:46 pm

Anyway, it depends on the society... a person with AS or HFA could just have well have been a monk or a scribe as a criminal awaiting a death sentence, and there was probably at least one autistic king or queen at some point in history.
In a lot of cultures what your position was and how you were treated depended more than anything on what your father's profession had been, what his father's profession had been... Anyway, if you had money, you would probably be put into an arranged marriage, which could be OK or could be awful, depending. And money plays into it a lot: The more money you inherited, the more likely people were to not put your odd little habits into question.



Corvus
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18 Jan 2007, 8:48 pm

Well... ancient, ancient times? Well, if you lived in an area where someone first discovered fire, who would you refer to that discoverer as? :wink:

Jesus had potential aspie. I've always wondered if all monks really want to be monks



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18 Jan 2007, 9:53 pm

Image

Mr. Charles William Post

Charles went to the Illinois Industrial University in Urbana, later to become the University of Illinois. He was thirteen years old at the time. He was anxious to make his mark and his fortune and school was a waste of time to him.

After his success in persuading his parents to allow him to leave school, he joined the Illinois Governor’s Guard. His term in the guard awakened in Charles the desire to travel. After he left the guard he met up with and formed a partnership with an old school pal, Charles Moody. They decided to explore the wild West. They headed for Oklahoma Territory and the plains of Kansas. Even in those days the life of being a cowboy held a certain fascination for a young boy. They traveled extensively across the Southwest in search of business prospects and their fortune.


On November 4, 1874, Charles William Post was to marry Ella Merriweather, his childhood sweetheart. They were married at Pawnee, Illinois. She was twenty-one years of age, and he was twenty. The took place in the home of her Uncle. She was a music lover and a dancer. Both were industrious and ambitious, the perfect couple for what lay ahead in their future. The marriage seemed to add fuel to Post’s already tremendous energy, though his bride was rarely seen with him in public. She preferred to remain in the Post family’s rambling Victorian estate.

http://www.posttexas.com/CWPostHHistory.htm

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Probably us their throw the rocks at us, we go off alone banging the rocks on the floor, suddenly a spark, about 1 - 5 mins later we got fire lol ;)
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18 Jan 2007, 10:10 pm

Nobody would really notice AS in a low-density rural culture, so it would get no special name. Low-functioning autistics would be mixed up with severe MR and likely be left in the woods to die rather than be a drain on resources.



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19 Jan 2007, 8:16 am

Makes you want to ask a lot of questions about your grandparents, or great-grandparents. If an ASpie lived in a farm community back at the beginning of the 20th century, they might have just been thought odd, but fit in pretty well. We love animals, so you might have been quite good at raising horses, or hunting dogs. This would have fit right in with community needs. Or for us guys, maybe obssessed with gasoline engines, and early cars. Your great grandfather might have "always been tinkering with his model T". It might have been more difficult for the women, being expected to take care of home and children. They might have been the "old maids" who never married, but still managed to have a home (and lots of cats). Or they might have been the best seamstress in the town, sewing dresses for a living. Or raising the most chickens, or goats...


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19 Jan 2007, 9:01 am

The Romans may have interbred aspie and autistic slaves for the gladiators to practice on. It they are anything like me they would have terrible fighting skills.



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19 Jan 2007, 10:09 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
Makes you want to ask a lot of questions about your grandparents, or great-grandparents. If an ASpie lived in a farm community back at the beginning of the 20th century, they might have just been thought odd, but fit in pretty well. We love animals, so you might have been quite good at raising horses, or hunting dogs. This would have fit right in with community needs. Or for us guys, maybe obssessed with gasoline engines, and early cars. Your great grandfather might have "always been tinkering with his model T". It might have been more difficult for the women, being expected to take care of home and children. They might have been the "old maids" who never married, but still managed to have a home (and lots of cats). Or they might have been the best seamstress in the town, sewing dresses for a living. Or raising the most chickens, or goats...


I agree and also that you could have ended up a monk/nun/scribe, probably particularly if your family were well off.

I don't know if this is already in the thread but just tried this - http://www.fisheaters.com/quiz1.html - and was impressed. Spectrum people are melancholics. Using the four humours from antiquity, without even understanding the structure or chemistry of the brain, mediæval Catholic spiritual writers could be very good psychologists. Based on observations accumulated over many years they understood and knew how to treat spectrum people. That is, the educated minority of people knew. I imagine the uneducated majority thought spectrumites either holy fools or possessed. Again a lot like people today.



Last edited by Young_fogey on 19 Jan 2007, 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Prof_Pretorius
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19 Jan 2007, 11:11 am

I imagine ASpies as being very good monks. Day after day, copying a manuscript version of the Bible, or prayer book. Being meticulous in the writing, and calligraphy. Not being very interested in the other monk's gossip ! ! Living in a closed community, having a day to day schedule and rituals. Hmmm, I'm almost wishing for a time machine (! !!)


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19 Jan 2007, 12:03 pm

What about the king's fool? The fool had to be very intelligent and funny or goofy. Often the King would ask the fool what he thought about someone's opinion. He might have the most honest and logical answer to the problem. He would not be interested in impressing anyone or lying and be very very loyal to the king. Sometimes the fool would say the wrong thing and end up losing his head as punishment if he angered the king.