Should Barack Obama be impeached?

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Not a deflection. My honest opinion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That conveniently avoids answering any of the charges I leveled. Obama is so indefensible, all you can do is point to Bush and claim he was worse, which is cruelly ironic considering how closely Obama has followed Bush's policies. I'd say try evaluating Obama objectively, but I don't think you can do that at this point, due to stubbornness or something else I couldn't say.

He's only followed Bush with national security issues. But again, Obama has been detangling us from Bush's wars, and is trying to fix the economic mess Bush and company left us with. Sounds pretty good to me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You mean the same ones he explicitly campaigned against? The same ones that you undoubtedly vocally opposed when Bush was at the helm?



By following the withdrawal timetables and agreements put into place by, wait for it, Bush?

Also, by entangling us in Libya, Somalia, Syria, Pakistan, and Yemen? You've got a funny definition of "disentangling" there...



By handing out tax dollars to his cronies and saddling us with a useless giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry disguised as a healthcare law? I don't think you're using the word "fix" in the same context I would here, as in he's "fixing" things like you'd "fix" a fight or a card game.



Of course he does, you'd still support him if he personally f*cked your wife and shot your dog, cause at least he's not a Republican.

Have you noticed that you can't seem to praise him in a vacuum, all you ever do is compare him to Bush or just the vague idea of a Republican? All you can muster when backed into a corner is gay rights, which he only moved on when it became clear that it wasn't going to cost him politically (And who was there years ago? Dick. F*cking. Cheney.), and things he's said, nothing he's actually done, and you then blame the Republicans for "obstructing" him even in areas where he could use an executive order or has acted unilaterally.

Further, when presented with irrefutable evidence of his many crimes and misdeeds, the most you'll do is grudgingly admit that *maybe* his treatment of whistle-blowers has been a bit harsh, ignoring the ruinous foreign policy, the Constitution mocking executive power grab, all the broken promises, the federal crackdown on medical marijuana growers, the record deportations, the -oh why am I even bothering? Your daddy was a union man, so you're a union man, no matter what. I'm sure your daddy was a Democrat too, so you'll be one too no matter what, and just stick your fingers in your ears when ill is spoken of them, and cover your eyes when their true nature becomes so plain that even you can't help but see it.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a party man, it's not for me as I prefer to order my opinions a la carte, but there is definitely something wrong with willful ignorance and self deception, and when it comes to the Democratic party and Barack Obama in particular, you're up to your eyeballs in both of them. Be a Democrat, not a useful idiot.

Are you sensing that I'm a little frustrated with you here, Bill?

No, he did not. The timetable to exit Iraq and Afghanistan were already drafted BEFORE Obama took office. At best, he might have accelerated them, but only time will tell it if was a good or bad idea when we see what kind of governments become dominant without us being there.

I'm not saying Bush was right to get us into those wars, but we pretty much had the Taliban back in power in Afghanistan not long after we supposedly ousted them.

Please make no mention of my wife in an insulting manner, or my father - I make no personal attacks on your family.
You can't seriously compare our limited involvement in Libya,Somalia, or Pakistan to the loss of life and treasure in Iraq or Afghanistan. Syria is still too early to judge, one way or another.
Yes, Obama did save the country's ass from the economic mess Bush left us in - with his Wall Street Buddies. His cure wasn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than what Bush had left us.
As reprehensible as the domestic spying appears, what the president knows now - compared to what he had campaigned against - are light years apart when it comes to threats from our enemies. I trust this man enough for the time being, because I have no reason not to. If you don't, that's your choice.
I doubt the federal crackdown on medical pot growers is going to last forever. It takes time to publicly support certain controversial positions that he may personally already hold to - such as in the case of gay marriage.
If you're getting frustrated, you have to ask if the argument is worth your while.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Sure there was a time table for withdraw. The Republicans were determined to ignore it, and stay there indefinitely. Obama had to fight to leave those quagmires.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH63SSlwXKQ[/youtube]

Impeachment will do nothing. All of the Federal government and all of wall street, including those who claim to disagree with him, suck up to him. Even if he resigns (which he won't), someone like him will replace him.

To be sure, Barry's overstepped his bounds with this preventative detention BS - even for me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'd have pegged Carter as a worse president than Bush the Second, personally. Bush II may have been - er - somewhat lacking in intellectual rigor or curiosity, he may have been willing to endorse whatever statements were necessary to try the Neo-Conservative idea that forcing Iraq into democracy would cause the entire Arab world to follow suit (a notion that ignores the fact that Iraq isn't an Arab nation), he may have been a terrible human being, but at least he could lead. Jimmy Carter couldn't lead an Easter parade down a three-block street. His activities since leaving office suggest he's have made a hell of an HEW secretary, or possibly even State - but as Presidents go, he sucked pretty bad.

I'm not quite old enough to remember the Wilson or Harding administrations, of course...

I didn't attack your family, I pointed out that you're so enamored of this president that you'd allow him virtually any trespass and still support him, and you yourself have brought up your father's union affiliation numerous times in when explaining your own uncritical support of labor unions, I merely speculated that your uncritical support of the Democratic party may have similar roots. I used some crude hyperbole, but my intention was not to offend, but rather to shock you into a substantive reply, so I apologize for any offense taken.



Ever seen a friend getting cheated by a smooth talking con man and tried to convince him that he's getting screwed, only to have him get pissed at you? Similar dynamic at work here.

I have been in a situation - before I met my wife - where an evil young lady with Borderline Personality Disorder was taking advantage of me, and my friends had tried repeatedly to warn me. I only broke it off with her when I learned she was protecting another guy she was involved with who had beaten up her son. So yes, I have been in that situation.
While President Obama and the Democratic Party may not be perfect, they still represent my interest better than the alternative. And who's to say I don't actually agree with the positions I'm defending?

I accept that you were not attacking my family - s'kay.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I would love to see what the opposition would think of Obama if one of those detainees were released and then went on to commit terrorism against us.

There are to be sure plenty of people who the military and the intelligence agencies admit have no business being there. These people should definitely be released. Those who are known to be threats ought to be tried, and sent to real prisons. Chances are, they'd have much less chance of survival among the general prison populations. The notion that they could somehow escape regular federal prisons is fantasy and paranoia. These guys probably aren't Houdini.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If I was detained and harassed for something I didn't do,I might have a mind to do it,if I got free,because I would be pissed off. Now it's a no win situation,they now have a reason to hold a grudge.A good percent most likely didn't deserve to be there.Dammed if you do,dammed if you don't.