Removing the military enlistment ban on Asperger's syndrome

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Fnord
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24 Jun 2013, 11:14 pm

^ Well, then ... don't mention that you have Asperger's!



AutisticAmerican24
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24 Jun 2013, 11:23 pm

LennytheWicked wrote:
Though under normal circumstances I wouldn't want to join the military, I don't see why I shouldn't have the option. Even if they were just given desk jobs. (Heck, people with physical disabilities can sometimes get those.)

I checked with the recruitment office for the National Guard in our area because I considered it as a possible way of paying whatever my college fund and scholarships won't cover. They told me no because a) I have asperger's and ADD b) I have asthma. When I mentioned asthma they suggested I may be able to find a desk job. When I mentioned mental disorders they said they wouldn't hire me.

I don't see why they shouldn't hire someone if it won't interfere with their work. If they can give a person with asthma a job then they should be able to give a person with autism a job.


It depends on what recruiter that you talk to. If you can take ahold of a good recruiter, then they should let you in. If you're autistic but you're bothered by loud noises and you're not aware of everything around you, then you should try finding a desk / office job.
Remember, total awareness of your surroundings, effective verbal communication, exceptional / good motor assembly skills and tolerance to pretty much everything including loud sounds, are required for combat positions such as infantry, Special Operations, and Combat Engineer. There is simply no way that you could survive in any of those positions or any other combat position if you hadn't conquered all of those symptoms that I just mentioned. You would be putting the lives of your fellow soldiers / squad mates at risk if you didn't conquer those very same symptoms in any combat jobs. Your superior officers would be fiercely and viciously criticized and berated by both the media and politicians on how an Aspie who hadn't conquered any of those symptoms was able to enter any of those positions in the first place. I know for a fact that Israel has currently enlisted 10 classic autistics into the Israeli army but because of the severity of the symptoms of their classic autism, they can only hold positions such as equipment / supply personnel.

Here, you might find this news article interesting:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 83,00.html



zarok
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25 Jun 2013, 12:20 am

For some reason the way to get around this and get into the military don't seem to interest him he wants to do it honestly. But you know if you cant do the lifting why would someone hire you? your not discriminating you just cant do the job or you might get hurt or get other people hurt. you might do something wrong.

Dude, if you want to join the army sue the united states government for discrimination. go get a lawyer cause those are your options

A. Lie and hope you don't get found out and if you do say you didn't know it was relevant, (i know i wouldn't think it would matter)
B. Leave it as is and prepare for an invasion so when it happens you are rambo and save the nation and become a zero to hero. (i would watch that movie) .... (i claim that idea no one steal it)
C. Sue the United States government for discriminating against a group of people.
- get rich and settle down and donate lots of money to help aspies.



AutisticAmerican24
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25 Jun 2013, 12:30 am

zarok wrote:
For some reason the way to get around this and get into the military don't seem to interest him he wants to do it honestly. But you know if you cant do the lifting why would someone hire you? your not discriminating you just cant do the job or you might get hurt or get other people hurt. you might do something wrong.

Dude, if you want to join the army sue the united states government for discrimination. go get a lawyer cause those are your options

A. Lie and hope you don't get found out and if you do say you didn't know it was relevant, (i know i wouldn't think it would matter)
B. Leave it as is and prepare for an invasion so when it happens you are rambo and save the nation and become a zero to hero. (i would watch that movie) .... (i claim that idea no one steal it)
C. Sue the United States government for discriminating against a group of people.
- get rich and settle down and donate lots of money to help aspies.


Who could you possibly be talking to, Zarok ? Are you talking to Lenny or are you talking to me ?

I intend to gather a group of current active-duty military personnel and hire lawyers, suing the U.S. Government in order to allow autistics and Aspies into the military for not temporarily, but permanently.



zarok
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25 Jun 2013, 1:13 am

See i was not sure if you wanted to get into the military, or if you wanted to change the law.



AutisticAmerican24
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25 Jun 2013, 1:37 am

zarok wrote:
See i was not sure if you wanted to get into the military, or if you wanted to change the law.


Are you kidding me ? I want to do both ! In fact, I intend to complete both fully and successfully !



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25 Jun 2013, 1:50 am

There are already people with asperger-like traits in the military, nobody goes around accusing them of having aspergers. Unless you were diagnosed by a government doctor, they have no way of knowing if you even had a doctor, much less a diagnosis. If you're looking for a top-secret clearance, then you might run into trouble because they ask people you know about you.

Even if they didn't care about AS, I wouldn't go around telling anyone. The military culture is really disdainful of anyone catching a break or expressing too much individuality.


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AutisticAmerican24
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25 Jun 2013, 2:42 am

MDD123 wrote:
There are already people with asperger-like traits in the military, nobody goes around accusing them of having aspergers. Unless you were diagnosed by a government doctor, they have no way of knowing if you even had a doctor, much less a diagnosis. If you're looking for a top-secret clearance, then you might run into trouble because they ask people you know about you.

Even if they didn't care about AS, I wouldn't go around telling anyone. The military culture is really disdainful of anyone catching a break or expressing too much individuality.


I don't intend to tell anyone anything. They can look at my medical records and request a waiver to open them from the government. All I want to do is enlist in the military, complete my selected time, sue to allow autistics / Aspies join the military, be discharged afterwards, raise a private / hired mercenary army of Aspies, deploy to several countries in the Middle East / Africa as the leader of that very same army and then return to the U.S. after spending a significant amount of time in the Middle East as a contractor, me and my Aspie-diagnosed mercenaries being responsible for a substantial number of enemy / hostile kills / deaths.



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25 Jun 2013, 9:12 am

I keep telling you, they have no way of knowing if you even have medical records.

How long are you willing to wait before the military starts openly admitting AS? Are you going to put your life on hold until then? How much running and exercise do you do, SF will have you covering large distances while carrying heavy loads, how often do you really work yourself to exhaustion?

In my experience, one seemingly simple plan can involve a lot of setbacks, you're making several ambitious plans. The very first plan you laid out can take decades. If your only reason for doing this is to become a mercenary, you might fare better with the French Foreign Legion, if you make it there, it'll save you the trouble of suing the government and it might prepare you better for mercenary work.


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Kelspook
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28 Jun 2013, 8:10 am

AutisticAmerican24 wrote:

I don't intend to tell anyone anything. They can look at my medical records and request a waiver to open them from the government. All I want to do is enlist in the military, complete my selected time, sue to allow autistics / Aspies join the military, be discharged afterwards, raise a private / hired mercenary army of Aspies, deploy to several countries in the Middle East / Africa as the leader of that very same army and then return to the U.S. after spending a significant amount of time in the Middle East as a contractor, me and my Aspie-diagnosed mercenaries being responsible for a substantial number of enemy / hostile kills / deaths.



I believe you may have been playing faaaar too much Call of Duty.

The UK doesn't have a blanket ban as such, it simply requires that each person is assessed on a case by case basis. I spent 5 years in the army long before I was either diagnosed or had even heard of Aspergers, and had looked into reenlisting. That's what I was told at the time.

You will never overturn that restriction in it's entirety. Some Aspies would be an absolute liability in combat and incapable of fitting in with a military unit. You're trusting your life to your buddy, so have to be sure he's going to live up to his part of the deal, not get distracted or worse, argue the point over why you're ordering them to do something. As for giving them "desk jobs" that doesn't happen. Everyone has to be a soldier first and a trademan second. If you want to do a military desk job, apply to be civilian contractor.



Vampi
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28 Jun 2013, 2:15 pm

AutisticAmerican24 wrote:
What makes you think that they'll be distracted ? They're aware and sensitive of everything around them and due to their disorder so they're obsessed with accomplishing their objectives until they reach their goal, so there's no chance of anything else catching their attention.


Oh my days you have JUST proved that Aspie's can be VERY distracted!

The last time I checked, A in a bullet point list is usually followed by B. Not the number 2. You were so distracted with rage about what is clearly your specialist subject that you didn't check your post thoroughly. I for one, would not want you in a fox hole next to me in case you were so distracted by your rant on the military vs Aspergers that you start eating a grenade because you thought it was an apple!

For what its worth I believe that Aspie's have terrific value in the working environment. I personally have apprenticed Aspie's through National Vocational Qualifications and onto full time, well paid employment. They were an asset to the company and they are STILL THERE 5 years later. YES sometimes us lot can take more patience and work than your average Joe. But the pay off with us is HUGE because of the amount we can process, especially in an office environment. Single dedication to a task is perfect for this sector.

HOWEVER

In the military environment this could be a complete disaster. So focussed on your task that you walk into a minefield (literally) and let us not forget that a lot of the time, Aspergers is accompanied by Dyspraxia. Also the 'having to do things to their ultimate conclusion' or 'having to do things a set way' could also end up backfiring. Some people are fine and work brilliantly in the military because they know where the rules are. They know what they can and cannot do. Which is great. But others higher on the spectrum? Or, and I REALLY cannot believe you suggested those who are autistic would be suitable. The over stimulation in noise in the middle of a warzone, would probably send them mental. As in running through the warzone mental.

I was in the Territorial Army for a short while. I lost count of the times I fell out the back of the 4 tonner. Whacked myself in the face tying up my own boots, fell over walls, and once chinned myself, with the butt of my SA80. I was known as Calamity Catelyn and for the safety of my fellow soldiers, I LEFT!! !! They did all agree I was excellent and sorting stuff out from behind the scenes, which is why I ended up in management.

Away from the shooty things, I am far safer. I am gobsmacked that I didn't at any point, fall over my own feet and shoot myself in the face.

So yes SOME Aspie's would do very well in the military. But not all of us!! !! ! A restriction and a case by case basis is completely necessary.



MDD123
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30 Jun 2013, 12:08 pm

Vampi wrote:

So yes SOME Aspie's would do very well in the military. But not all of us!! !! ! A restriction and a case by case basis is completely necessary.


:roll:


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MDD123
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01 Jul 2013, 10:44 am

@ AutisticAmerican24
Good planning involves a plan B. I've seen no plan B in your posts, just a really elaborate plan A.

Kelspook wrote:
Basically, I believe that many aspies could and should be permitted to serve in the military, but only if they can demonstrate that the condition will not be detrimental to the safety of the unit as a whole. If someone's behaviour cannot be counted on, then they have no place in a military unit, and should be employed as civilian staff instead.


I don't know about the selection process over there, but a case by case basis is practically the same as an outright ban. People who make these decisions have something to lose if they let a bad one in, but nothing to lose if they keep a good one out.


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Kelspook
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01 Jul 2013, 11:44 am

MDD123 wrote:
@ AutisticAmerican24
Good planning involves a plan B. I've seen no plan B in your posts, just a really elaborate plan A.

Kelspook wrote:
Basically, I believe that many aspies could and should be permitted to serve in the military, but only if they can demonstrate that the condition will not be detrimental to the safety of the unit as a whole. If someone's behaviour cannot be counted on, then they have no place in a military unit, and should be employed as civilian staff instead.


I don't know about the selection process over there, but a case by case basis is practically the same as an outright ban. People who make these decisions have something to lose if they let a bad one in, but nothing to lose if they keep a good one out.


I suppose that's possible, but would have thought it would be unlikely- one of the things that basic training and the like is for is to weed out those who have passed the entry criteria but prove themselves to be ultimately unsuitable for duty. The pressure is avalanched on to them. If they're going to break, that's when it should happen, in theory.

You can't say "all Aspies and HFA folks can join!" because not all are suitable, the same way as not all NTs are suitable. Failure to disclose any condition should be an instant discharge offence. If condition X, Y or Z could compromise you in a situation, then it isn't allowed. About 5 years after I left the army, I thought I'd bugger off into the Royal Air Force for a bit. I wanted to go for Sergeant Aircrew. It turned out I couldn't. Not because I was an Aspie (I'd never even heard of it at that point) but because I'd had hayfever as a kid. Automatic bar.

There has to be screening. Like I said, no to a blanket ban, but case by case has to be the way so that you can ensure the right candidates get through.



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01 Jul 2013, 3:40 pm

Wow, our Airforce bars people for minor childhood ailments too. Ironically, it's the least likely branch to push anyone's physical limits.

I get why the basic training environment would be used to screen out anyone who can't function in the military, but I really don't see how AS has any bearing on the issue. Of course I don't think I'm disabled, just wired differently.


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Kelspook
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01 Jul 2013, 4:00 pm

I don't think I'm disabled either, and I managed fine in the army. But everybody is different and it's a very demanding enviroment. The overwhelming booze culture helped lol