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Egesa
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18 Jul 2013, 9:08 pm

Mitrovah, your OP is really thoughtful and insightful - I'll be keeping an eye out for your other posts on WP ;) I'll read more than a glance of the other posts here when I have a few spare minutes to do so, but for now I'll just offer my initial thoughts.

* It's expected that job applicants sell themselves; it therefore gives a false impression to be blunt, "honest", straightforward.
* Interviewers ask seemingly irrelevant questions, and make observations of seemingly irrelevant behaviours, because they use these as a way to gauge desirable or undesirable traits of potential employees, based on statistical correlations found in occupational psychological research. This is vulnerable to errors, e.g. unfair interpretation of a gesture, but generally averages out to be more or less reliable and valid in achieving its ends depending on the robustness of the supporting science, data collection (e.g. that gathered in interview) & analysis.
* I agree that it's a stupid game we're goaded to play, and that success in doing so is not a fair measure of character... or maybe there's a negative correlation, which I think is what you're getting at.



rpcarnell
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29 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

EVERYONE is basically a psychopath. The ones most people regard as psychopaths are the ones that have either made it to the top, so their psychopathy is obvious, or the ones at the bottom, whose psychopathy is obvious because they hate the society in which they live, so they rebel against it.

The funny thing is that when someone snaps and goes on a killing rampage, the media blames autism, manic depression, etc for what happened. They never blame themselves.


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babybird
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29 Jul 2013, 1:47 pm

Oh, how grim.


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auntblabby
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29 Jul 2013, 6:21 pm

babybird wrote:
Oh, how grim.

yes, the world we live in is pretty grim indeed.



Yuzu
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30 Jul 2013, 1:43 am

Yes, I believe most people are basically psychopaths although some have learnt not to act on their psychopathic instincts. It seems that psychopathic behaviors are more acceptable in the united states. I think this is the main reason why I don't have any friends. I can't trust anyone here.



rpcarnell
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31 Jul 2013, 3:39 pm

Well I cannot trust anyone in Panama either, and I definitely couldn't trust anyone in the US either.


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rpcarnell
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08 Dec 2013, 12:39 pm

I'll leave you with this gem


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Ladywoofwoof
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08 Dec 2013, 1:43 pm

CG Jung, in 'The spirit of Psychology' wrote:
"The 'common man', who is preponderantly a mass man, acts on the principle of realizing nothing. Nor does he need to, because for him the only thing that commits mistakes is that vast anonymity conventionally known as the "State" or "Society".
But once a man knows that he is, or should be, responsible, he feels responsible also for his psychic constitution, the more so the more clearly he sees what he would have to be in order to become healthier, more stable, and more efficient. Once he is on the way to assimilating the unconscious he can be certain that he will escape no difficulty that is an integral part of his nature. The mass man, on the other hand, has the privilege of being at all times "not guilty" of his social and political catastrophes in which the whole world is engulfed."



OddFiction
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09 Dec 2013, 1:59 am

I'm a bit off topic, but I tho jught it might be important (to you and to others) to highlight this sentence in your original post

Mitrovah wrote:
During an interview I was thinking about a question and I sort of unwittingly bowed my head while i was thinking and the interviewer made a note of it, as if it is some kind of mark against me as a crank

because I was once accused of something (nothing criminal, basically accused of having an attitude), and taken into a room to tell my side of the story. I was not believed despite my innocence in the situation. When I demanded a "higher court" (talking to the boss) I was shown a video tape of the original telling/room and at the point where I ducked my head to collect my thoughts, they paused it and said "that is body language for lying" - and I was fired because - according to them - dropping my head and shaking it once meant I was being willfully deceitful / guilty...

So note to all, ducking of head = you just lost your case with the NT.

And for sociopath... I think the diehard definition states that you must be willing to tread on other people in order to advance yourself... and "feeling neutral at a funeral" is not anywhere near that - so don't use those experiences as indicators.

As for "is the world full of sociopaths?" I honestly have asked myself the same question. Sometimes it feels that way. In continued consideration though, I have begun to think that a good deal of the "people in charge" get there because they have at least sociopath-like skills. Not all of them, mind you, but they are the ones you and I notice the most - because who notices the good guys?

Also, there tend to be a lot of "stuck in high school vying for attention/position" immature people in low wage jobs - which, at least in my case, has been where I spend (spent) most of my working time. And this thinly veiled (sometimes outright) 'teen competition' BS in these low end jobs very much mimics sociopathic behaviour, so that might be where some of us get that impression, too.



Marky9
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09 Dec 2013, 7:46 pm

Mitrovah wrote:
...what irritates me is that neuro typicals seem to think they know everything and because all the social conventions are working for them somehow they think they are in the universal right and therefore perpetuate it and force on everyone else.


This reminds me of my favorite quote from Lily Tomlin: "What is reality except a collective hunch?"


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hurtloam
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11 Dec 2013, 4:33 am

No, all people are not sociopaths. I have had the misfortune of having a few real sociopaths in my life and they behave differently to other people. A couple of the main signs are:

Quote:
Sociopaths often know how to make others believe they are the victim while actually being the aggressor

Sociopaths tend to blame the victim for their shortcomings. They can never admit to fault and instead attack the victim

Taken from How to detect a sociopath Though I'd say this article is over-simplistic.

Quote:
Remember that most people exhibit at least some of these personality traits to some degree. The key is to look for extreme and repetitive instances of these traits.

Taken from How to determine if someone is a sociopath

I'm too busy to look for better articles.

A sociopath lacks morality. They get off on aweing others with their tall tales and deny their lies when found out. When you show a sociopath up, that's when they get nasty and they use their clever manipulative brain to lie their way out of looking bad. Heaven forbid you be on the wrong side of them. They will tear you down to make themselves appear shiny and squeaky clean at your expense.

Being positive when describing yourself at an interview isn't sociopathy. I have never lied in an interview and I have only ever been unemployed for a total of 5 months of my adult life.

Being tactful when telling somebody something is not sociopathy. Taking other people's feelings into account isn't sociopathy, it is just kindness.



Mike1
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11 Dec 2013, 8:59 am

DSM-IV-TR - Antisocial Personality Disorder wrote:
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following::
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
In the DSM-5, the diagnosis antisocial personality disorder is kept, but it is no longer on another axis as the other mental disorders.

A lot of Americans fit #2, 3, 6, and 7. Only 3 out of those 7 traits are required to be considered antisocial. Most of them probably didn't have Conduct Disorder before the age of 15 though, so they probably don't meet the DSM IV criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder.

I personally think the DSM is total crap though. Practically everyone fits the criteria for at least one disorder on there. Some people want lists to be made of people with disorders, like sex offenders. Anyone who is disliked for any reason could be categorized as having some disorder, so that the government could put them on their s***list. Maybe someday the government will send everyone with a diagnosed disorder to labor camps where they'll make cheap goods for the "more deserving, well-liked" people. Society has a tendency to become more abusive towards people with any form of disadvantage, whether it be social, economical, genetic, neurological, psychological, physical etc. Only people as individuals can force society in the opposite direction.

I also don't think it's a very good idea for people on the spectrum to try to be enemies with sociopaths. Since the Sandy Hook tragedy, a lot of people think that people with ASDs and people with AsPD are the same, so we're kind of in the same boat now. Any legislation against people with AsPD would set a precedent that would lead towards legislation against people with ASDs, and vice versa. We should be strategic allies with them, as well as people with other disorders, to decrease the likelihood of having our rights taken away.



rpcarnell
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14 Dec 2013, 8:08 pm

Milgran Experiment

While most people are not sociopaths, it is clear that most people are probably 50% sociopathic.


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rpcarnell
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14 Dec 2013, 10:02 pm

And then this restores faith in humanity


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auntblabby
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14 Dec 2013, 10:04 pm

I wished somebody would have studied the right stuff that the few test subjects who resisted the white coat authority.



pete1061
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15 Dec 2013, 2:03 am

At heart, I don't think so. Not naturally.

But I think that sociopathic culture is growing. I think for most it is a learned behavior.
But there are very few natural, born sociopaths.

We just need to become more aware of our behaviors and nurture the compassionate empathic soul that resides within us.
(yes we aspies do have empathy, we just have to look deep enough)


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