Which of these following cases is rape?

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Ladywoofwoof
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11 Aug 2013, 12:29 pm

Tequila wrote:

Ladywoofwoof wrote:

Perhaps this matter could be resolved (at least to a great extent) by the introduction of a law against people using drugs in public to the extent that they become incapable of sentient thought.

Rape is illegal.

.. and grass is green.

Trousers have two legs, and toast is heated bread.

Your point being ?

Tequila
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11 Aug 2013, 12:31 pm

Ladywoofwoof wrote:

Your point being ?

It's difficult to enforce.

Rules regarding drunkenness in public are rarely enforced here at the moment as it is.

Ladywoofwoof
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11 Aug 2013, 12:48 pm

(shrug) The rule against rape is also often difficult to enforce, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a law against it.
Of course, it would help if a law against being antisocially drunk in public was actually enforced properly.

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11 Aug 2013, 1:37 pm

appletheclown wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Embrace true Islam and none of these cases would occur.

Embrace Russian orthodoxy, or Rasputin will eat your dreams!

OMG this is great hahaha Rasputin really does look like a soul dream eater

Shuucreme
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11 Aug 2013, 1:39 pm

Tequila wrote:

Shuucreme wrote:

Tbh I think it all depends on how one looks at it. You could make a case out of A, B, and E because one party did not have full control over mental facilities--ergo, they may not have been coherent enough to give actual "consent". C and D, with both parties intoxicated would probably be considered "poor judgement" as long as both parties agreed and were adults.

It really does all depend on how pissed they were.

Agreed. Everyone has a different alcohol tolerance. I guess it depends on if one is willing to argue that even the slightest bit of impairment=not able to give consent.

appletheclown
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11 Aug 2013, 3:26 pm

If are able to consent to getting drunk, your choices and situations are yours to deal with.

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Tequila
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11 Aug 2013, 3:30 pm

appletheclown wrote:

If are able to consent to getting drunk, your choices and situations are yours to deal with.

To a point, but if someone is that intoxicated that they don't know what they are doing, they are not able to consent to anything. Same as being asleep.

appletheclown
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11 Aug 2013, 3:49 pm

Tequila wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

If are able to consent to getting drunk, your choices and situations are yours to deal with.

To a point, but if someone is that intoxicated that they don't know what they are doing, they are not able to consent to anything. Same as being asleep.

The point is, if your can't control your self, don't start drinking at all, that is why people need to be held accountable. You're saying (Hypothetical) it wasn't my fault I got drunk, and got some woman pregnant? It is still my child! I don't have to be like any other lousy man and walk away from that type of ordeal. I'd raise the kid myself if I had to. (hypothetical) Obviously this is useless trying to explain, and a pointless effort as well.

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nick007
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11 Aug 2013, 4:05 pm

If it is rape on the bases of the rapee was intoxicated so he/she could not cosent; the same rules should apply when the rapist was intoxicated & he/she should be deemed incapible of making the informed judgement sense the rapee cant when he/she is intoxicated. I cant grasp how it's not a double standard if the same rules don't apply equally to the rapist & rapee.

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Cafeaulait
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11 Aug 2013, 4:17 pm

drunk rape is disgusting

albedo
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11 Aug 2013, 4:20 pm

Any rape is disgusting.

I find simulated rape disgusting, but people partake in it legally.

hanyo
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11 Aug 2013, 4:31 pm

nick007 wrote:

Here is why it's not a double standard.

If the rape occurred because the victim was barely mobile or passed out a rapist in the same position would be physically unable to rape.

Being drunk does not give you a free pass to commit crimes but it doesn't stop you from being a victim of a crime either.

nick007
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11 Aug 2013, 4:45 pm

hanyo wrote:

nick007 wrote:

I get what your saying bur for my analogy I'm saying they were equally drunk so neither was barely mobile. I think when the OP asked the questions he was thinking along the lines of same level of drunkenness for each senareo but I may be wrong.

Ladywoofwoof
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11 Aug 2013, 7:00 pm

appletheclown wrote:

Tequila wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

If are able to consent to getting drunk, your choices and situations are yours to deal with.

To a point, but if someone is that intoxicated that they don't know what they are doing, they are not able to consent to anything. Same as being asleep.

I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense, actually.
It is perhaps written in a slightly confusing way, but what you are saying still makes a lot of sense I reckon.

I think you're saying something similar to what I was, maybe (although I didn't explain it very well) ... in that that there really should be some means of preventing people from drinking so much alcohol that they become unable to have sentient thought ; or to control their ability to function as a coherent human being.... and that people ought to be held accountable for their actions whether they have chosen to be under the influence of some sort of drug (such as alcohol) or not.... since it's entirely their own choice whether to take such mind-altering substance, in the first place.

Perhaps a law against it would be totally un-enforcable.... but perhaps there should be some kind of heavy social stigma against getting into such a state in public ?

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12 Aug 2013, 1:38 am

hanyo wrote:

nick007 wrote:

Here is why it's not a double standard.

If the rape occurred because the victim was barely mobile or passed out a rapist in the same position would be physically unable to rape.

Indeed. Those two things combined mean that a fair interpretation of "drunk enough to be unable to give consent" (which is highly subjective) is "drunk enough to be physically unable to rape someone" (which is much easier to judge). A lower threshold of "drunk enough" would be a double standard.

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Which of these following cases is rape?