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Dox47
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15 Oct 2013, 3:06 am

Aside from bumping this (I'm seeing people asking about dating sites in other threads), I wanted to mention that I recently lost my first potential date ever due to politics.

I was IMing with someone and hitting it off pretty well, we even knew a few of the same people on my little island, when she started asking me about politics. I tried to keep it light and only mention the fairly conventional aspects of my beliefs, criminal justice reform, a better voting system, social safety net stuff, etc, when she just point blank asked me about guns, which just happen to be my special interest and sometimes profession. Being honest, I said that I'd actually gone to school as a gunsmith, had worked in the industry, and wasn't particularly fond of gun control generally, which is all usually third date material for me since I don't like people making snap judgments about me, and I was proven right in this case as I immediately got hit with a flurry of anti-gun links and invective, and got dropped like a rock.

Now I've dated women who didn't like guns before, but in every case they've liked me enough to overlook the issue, and if they've spent any length of time with me they've become comfortable around them, if not enthusiastic for them (though it's surprising how many women will come around if taken to the range). I've actually seen a handful of honest to god "come to Jesus" moments when I've been out with a woman and *something* has happened around us that frightened her, and then she's realized that I'm carrying, and further realized that she's comforted by that. BUT, that requires getting past someones "filters" in the first place, which means not putting out everything about me right up front.

Learn from my mistake; don't talk politics with potential dates, only woe lies down that path! :oops:


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leafplant
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15 Oct 2013, 4:50 am

but like you said, that was about politics, not guns.

guns in themselves could be a fun toy, but a person could still be of an opinion that firearms are a bad thing in the general scheme of things and not want to hang out with someone who is into them. It's the essential values mismatch, you can't fix that with personality or good looks.



JanuaryMan
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15 Oct 2013, 4:50 am

The irony of many who call themself liberals is that when it comes to accepting other opinions or being open minded they are not a liberal person.
What that person did was rather ignorant, and unnecessary. All they had to do was not respond. Then again, I personally would have told them they can find out more about me in person as your profile is long enough ;)



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15 Oct 2013, 7:03 am

JanuaryMan wrote:
The irony of many who call themself liberals is that when it comes to accepting other opinions or being open minded they are not a liberal person.
What that person did was rather ignorant, and unnecessary. All they had to do was not respond. Then again, I personally would have told them they can find out more about me in person as your profile is long enough ;)


you think ignoring someone is an acceptable behaviour? As in, you are IMing happily back and forth, then a question comes up, you answer it and never hear from them again. You think that's better?



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15 Oct 2013, 7:21 am

leafplant wrote:
JanuaryMan wrote:
The irony of many who call themself liberals is that when it comes to accepting other opinions or being open minded they are not a liberal person.
What that person did was rather ignorant, and unnecessary. All they had to do was not respond. Then again, I personally would have told them they can find out more about me in person as your profile is long enough ;)


you think ignoring someone is an acceptable behaviour? As in, you are IMing happily back and forth, then a question comes up, you answer it and never hear from them again. You think that's better?
I don't think either is better than the other. But there are ways to respond to people and ways not to respond to people. Besides, it's not unheard of. People stop contact all the time on these sites over the most trivial of things. IMO receiving no response is better than receiving a negative one. I mean, if they aren't interested in pursuing further why bother to be rude to the other person? It's unnecessary, simply not responding will give the recipient the same conclusion - that the particular view being discussed isn't compatible with the other person.



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15 Oct 2013, 8:01 am

Dox47 wrote:
I was IMing with someone and hitting it off pretty well, we even knew a few of the same people on my little island, when she started asking me about politics. I tried to keep it light and only mention the fairly conventional aspects of my beliefs, criminal justice reform, a better voting system, social safety net stuff, etc, when she just point blank asked me about guns, which just happen to be my special interest and sometimes profession. Being honest, I said that I'd actually gone to school as a gunsmith, had worked in the industry, and wasn't particularly fond of gun control generally, which is all usually third date material for me since I don't like people making snap judgments about me, and I was proven right in this case as I immediately got hit with a flurry of anti-gun links and invective, and got dropped like a rock.


I have a few questions. What was the matching percentage with this woman? Did you go through her answers to the questions to see what her political views are? Would it have stopped you from IMing with her if you knew she was anti-gun beforehand?

When I get messages from right wing guys it always confuses me why they are messaging me. I guess a lot of people don't look through the answers or disregard the matching percentages.



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15 Oct 2013, 8:07 am

Yuzu wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I was IMing with someone and hitting it off pretty well, we even knew a few of the same people on my little island, when she started asking me about politics. I tried to keep it light and only mention the fairly conventional aspects of my beliefs, criminal justice reform, a better voting system, social safety net stuff, etc, when she just point blank asked me about guns, which just happen to be my special interest and sometimes profession. Being honest, I said that I'd actually gone to school as a gunsmith, had worked in the industry, and wasn't particularly fond of gun control generally, which is all usually third date material for me since I don't like people making snap judgments about me, and I was proven right in this case as I immediately got hit with a flurry of anti-gun links and invective, and got dropped like a rock.


I have a few questions. What was the matching percentage with this woman? Did you go through her answers to the questions to see what her political views are? Would it have stopped you from IMing with her if you knew she was anti-gun beforehand?

When I get messages from right wing guys it always confuses me why they are messaging me. I guess a lot of people don't look through the answers or disregard the matching percentages.
They only check the pictures and the hobbies ;) so they can say they like the same things as you..LOL. Am I a cynic? Probably, but that's what I think happens. My friend's profile is practically empty including questions, and he seems to match his interests to the profile he reads.

You raise some important things about those questions though - in some cases why do people bother? And in other cases, why do they say something is of little importance, then treat the incompatibility on that as of major importance?



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15 Oct 2013, 8:18 am

JanuaryMan wrote:
You raise some important things about those questions though - in some cases why do people bother? And in other cases, why do they say something is of little importance, then treat the incompatibility on that as of major importance?


If you choose "of little importance" it wouldn't count much towards the matching percentages.
It's explained in here how it works.
I put "very important" or "mandatory" to the answers I care about so it's pretty safe to say guys with lower matching percentage with me have the incompatible views on stuff I care about. I think it's a good filtering system.



Dox47
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15 Oct 2013, 2:59 pm

Yuzu wrote:
I have a few questions. What was the matching percentage with this woman?


89%

Yuzu wrote:
Did you go through her answers to the questions to see what her political views are?


Yep, standard issue Seattle liberal as far as I could tell, she hadn't really gone into depth, all I had to go on was the questions she'd answered, none of which mentioned guns.

Yuzu wrote:
Would it have stopped you from IMing with her if you knew she was anti-gun beforehand?


Well she actually initiated the conversation in the first place, but no, it wouldn't have stopped me, because I don't believe in dating based on politics. It's been my experience that people will at least tolerate nearly any political quirk if they like you enough, and further, that meeting and spending time with someone they like who holds beliefs that they dislike helps them to realize that people who disagree with them are not a stereotype. I have a big pet peeve about people using political disagreement as an excuse for personal hatred, but rather than become what I despise, I date on a politics-blind basis and demonstrate that there's a lot more to people than how they vote. In my case, I call it the "gay son effect", because I soft-peddle my own politics until I feel the person is comfortable with me, at which point it's harder to depersonalize me because of something I think, like the cliche of the homophobe getting over it when he finds he has a gay son.

Yuzu wrote:
When I get messages from right wing guys it always confuses me why they are messaging me. I guess a lot of people don't look through the answers or disregard the matching percentages.


Maybe they don't think your politics are the most important thing about you?


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Dox47
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15 Oct 2013, 3:07 pm

leafplant wrote:
guns in themselves could be a fun toy, but a person could still be of an opinion that firearms are a bad thing in the general scheme of things and not want to hang out with someone who is into them. It's the essential values mismatch, you can't fix that with personality or good looks.


My experience has been otherwise, as I've only ever dated one girl who actually liked guns, with the rest of them being indifferent to hostile, but that's never become a problem in a relationship before. This one blew up on me because she didn't really know me and stereotyped me before even meeting me based on a personal prejudice of hers; I'm quite confident that if I'd actually dated her, by the time she noticed the gun safe in my living room she would have been happy to overlook it.


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lost561
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15 Oct 2013, 3:21 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Aside from bumping this (I'm seeing people asking about dating sites in other threads), I wanted to mention that I recently lost my first potential date ever due to politics.

I was IMing with someone and hitting it off pretty well, we even knew a few of the same people on my little island, when she started asking me about politics. I tried to keep it light and only mention the fairly conventional aspects of my beliefs, criminal justice reform, a better voting system, social safety net stuff, etc, when she just point blank asked me about guns, which just happen to be my special interest and sometimes profession. Being honest, I said that I'd actually gone to school as a gunsmith, had worked in the industry, and wasn't particularly fond of gun control generally, which is all usually third date material for me since I don't like people making snap judgments about me, and I was proven right in this case as I immediately got hit with a flurry of anti-gun links and invective, and got dropped like a rock.

Now I've dated women who didn't like guns before, but in every case they've liked me enough to overlook the issue, and if they've spent any length of time with me they've become comfortable around them, if not enthusiastic for them (though it's surprising how many women will come around if taken to the range). I've actually seen a handful of honest to god "come to Jesus" moments when I've been out with a woman and *something* has happened around us that frightened her, and then she's realized that I'm carrying, and further realized that she's comforted by that. BUT, that requires getting past someones "filters" in the first place, which means not putting out everything about me right up front.

Learn from my mistake; don't talk politics with potential dates, only woe lies down that path! :oops:



When women ask you about something like she asked you about guns, it usually means they are superficial about it.

This is where you need to decide if you can tell her " I don't have an opinion about gun control " to keep her from labeling you as a gun freak or if you have to tell her how you really feel.

I know leaf plant, januaryman, octobertiger, tea earl grey, & Shatbat are going to disagree with me but if it were me in that situation I would have said that I don't have an opinion on gun control. And if she insisted on you telling her one way or the other than tell her that you would prefer that the government not interfere with your right to own a firearm.

Sometimes you have to learn to accomodate other people, Dox. I know guns are a big part of your life but could that have been a potential date & relationship you just missed out on?

People are very judgemental on others who are openly very opinionated and aspies have this problem. This is an area that I've learned to change about myself.

I see that you live in Seattle, that is a very liberal place if I'm not mistaken. You might do better down in the southeast United States or Texas where there are more people who don't want this country to turn into a communist state.



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15 Oct 2013, 4:08 pm

oh dear lord. *pinches nose bridge*

Yes, of course, there is no better way to build a rewarding and mutually supportive relationship than lying to eachother from the start.

As for the gun thing, I blame the Chinese. People think it's always the Germans who are to blame, but no, it really is the Chinese. Ruddy gun powder inventing communists, the lot of them.



Dox47
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15 Oct 2013, 4:13 pm

lost561 wrote:
I know leaf plant, januaryman, octobertiger, tea earl grey, & Shatbat are going to disagree with me but if it were me in that situation I would have said that I don't have an opinion on gun control. And if she insisted on you telling her one way or the other than tell her that you would prefer that the government not interfere with your right to own a firearm.

Sometimes you have to learn to accomodate other people, Dox. I know guns are a big part of your life but could that have been a potential date & relationship you just missed out on?


That might work if I were only looking at things really short term, as in getting laid a couple of times, but would blow up in my face if I were trying for anything more serious, as it would very quickly become obvious that I'd lied. I'm okay with losing one potential date behind being honest, it's not like that was my only opportunity or something, I do quite well for myself in fact.

lost561 wrote:
I see that you live in Seattle, that is a very liberal place if I'm not mistaken. You might do better down in the southeast United States or Texas where there are more people who don't want this country to turn into a communist state.


I'm not a conservative though, and I don't have a problem dating women who disagree with me; it's judgmental people that are the problem, and I doubt moving would fix that.


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15 Oct 2013, 4:18 pm

Dox47 wrote:
it's judgmental people that are the problem, and I doubt moving would fix that.


Sorry for being nosy, but I can't help wondering - you must have your own set of deal breakers, would you feel comfortable sharing those? You make very fine points but I find myself nontheless uneasy when I consider this gun issue. I am wondering if this makes me judgmental. (I don't mind if I am, because I am comfortable with my current attitude about the issue, but I am not sure if this makes me judgmental person or not)



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15 Oct 2013, 4:42 pm

leafplant wrote:
Sorry for being nosy, but I can't help wondering - you must have your own set of deal breakers, would you feel comfortable sharing those?


Ironically, judgmental probably tops my own list, although heavily religious also makes me pretty wary. I'm also very cautious with vegans, as I cook professionally and meat is a big part of what I do.


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15 Oct 2013, 4:53 pm

Dox47 wrote:

That might work if I were only looking at things really short term, as in getting laid a couple of times, but would blow up in my face if I were trying for anything more serious, as it would very quickly become obvious that I'd lied. I'm okay with losing one potential date behind being honest, it's not like that was my only opportunity or something, I do quite well for myself in fact.


Yes but you were attracted and interested enough in this woman to try and keep talking to her. She is the one that dropped you. Getting laid would be successful in my eyes. And if she turned out to like you, there's always a possibility that she would overlook the whole gun thing. I think judging somebody on something like that is quite funny actually, but she probably has tons of other options on OK Cupid if she is attractive so she can afford to be picky that's why she is. Where as if she got to know you first and then found out about how you feel about guns she might be more forgiving. The same goes for telling people you have aspergers.. Same concept like we discussed earlier in this thread.


Dox47 wrote:
I'm not a conservative though, and I don't have a problem dating women who disagree with me; it's judgmental people that are the problem, and I doubt moving would fix that.


Im not saying you're a conservative, I'm just saying that conservative people generally are more in-line with your view on gun control. And since guns are such a big part of your life you might have a better chance of finding somebody in a different area with different demographics than the one you're in now (if you're in Seattle) because liberals tend to be more in favor of gun control just like this woman that rejected you because of your view on guns.

Just my advice. I'd either modify the way you come off as a heavy gun enthusiast or try to find somebody who likes guns and the women that like guns the most are country women. That's my strategy. Only trying to help.