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lost561
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30 Sep 2013, 9:08 pm

I like shamelessgit's way of thinking



the_alchemist
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30 Sep 2013, 9:36 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI

I'm working on looking past girls looks and I don't think I need to be top dog to find love.



Flyer
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01 Oct 2013, 2:32 am

First of all, tarantella64, thank you for your posts. You're probably the only person here who didn't attack OP in one way or another and actually contributed to discussion.

tarantella64 wrote:
The problem with comparing men's v. women's DV is that the men tend to come out of it in much better shape, physically, than the women do. Nearly all the victims of spousal murders are women.

Interesting, it's different around here. More victims are men than women. 60% is the number I found, but don't quote me on that. The theory is that men are less likely to report DV until it's too late. I'm not inferring anything here. I still don't understand why would anyone stay with an abusive spouse.
tarantella64 wrote:
The men/women work-patterns thing, in workplaces and at home, is also extensively studied, and what comes out is that men *feel* like they're doing a tremendous amount of work because they are. The problem is that women are doing *even more work*, just because there's so damn much work to do when you're having jobs and raising children.

I agree on this one. I think, the biggest problem is when both sides think they're doing more work than the other. It's not possible to achieve any balance without good communication.
tarantella64 wrote:
As a single woman homeowner, I've found that many of the hero jobs are not in fact all that heroic. Last summer I was staining my front steps, and was surprised at how fast and dead easy it was, and wondered why, because people made such a big deal about it. Answer: It has to be something you can do while half-drunk and not terribly sensible to start with, because it's one of those manly-with-beer projects. Same with mowing the lawn, which I find to be uncannily like vacuuming.

But aren't typical male jobs also much more exciting? Aren't chainsaws much more exciting and cool than vacuum cleaners? You can get a 12 year old excited about lawn mowing, but can you get a 12 year old girl to be excited about vacuuming? I'm generalizing a lot here too, but I think what makes these jobs "heroic" is that they're just less boring.
I hope I won't get beaten for this. It's completely fine to enjoy any job you like. I have plenty of girly hobbies myself and I'm sure there are a lot of women much better at manly jobs than most men are.



tarantella64
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01 Oct 2013, 8:48 am

Well, the heroic angle generally means it involves large machinery, the louder the better, and is A Project with visible results that stay put a while. While doing the heroic project, the man is to be left alone. After the project, the man is to be left alone, for he has earned a rest!

Contrast: grocery shopping while listening to the 7-year-old complain about a boy in the class and taking all the sugar cereal out of the 3-year-old's hands, running into a friend and arranging a playdate, also thinking about what the groceries will cost and what'll be left for the utility bill. The groceries will get schlepped home and demolished within days. Oh, and you'll be expected to cook them, too. Someone will complain: "Didn't we get any _____?" You will get to rest sometime around 12:30-1 am.

These things have been studied pretty thoroughly in the US, and women spend far more time on house/family work than men do, even when the men and women have equally-intense jobs outside the home, and even when the woman's the main earner.

My own ex-husband eventually confessed that he found "women's work" to be beneath him, demeaning. This despite the fact that he'd talked a great feminist line when we married. He lives like an unbelievable slob now, moved apartments a few months ago; my daughter's bedroom over there is still full of boxes of his stuff, he hasn't got a bedframe for her, is using her room for his computer equipment, place is basically a shambles. The last place was just full of garbage and it seems he found cleaning out the cat box beneath him, too, because my daughter would come back with an incredible pong. He did mow the lawn very neatly, though.



redriverronin
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09 Oct 2013, 12:43 am

Why do women date jerks? What a lot of people on here seem to forget to point out is how women also cheat on their boy friends with jerks they cheat on their husbands with jerks. Also they marry a guys who are jerks and then after they are no longer jerks cheat on them with a new jerks.



Marcia
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09 Oct 2013, 2:15 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Well, the heroic angle generally means it involves large machinery, the louder the better, and is A Project with visible results that stay put a while. While doing the heroic project, the man is to be left alone. After the project, the man is to be left alone, for he has earned a rest!

Contrast: grocery shopping while listening to the 7-year-old complain about a boy in the class and taking all the sugar cereal out of the 3-year-old's hands, running into a friend and arranging a playdate, also thinking about what the groceries will cost and what'll be left for the utility bill. The groceries will get schlepped home and demolished within days. Oh, and you'll be expected to cook them, too. Someone will complain: "Didn't we get any _____?" You will get to rest sometime around 12:30-1 am.

These things have been studied pretty thoroughly in the US, and women spend far more time on house/family work than men do, even when the men and women have equally-intense jobs outside the home, and even when the woman's the main earner.

My own ex-husband eventually confessed that he found "women's work" to be beneath him, demeaning. This despite the fact that he'd talked a great feminist line when we married. He lives like an unbelievable slob now, moved apartments a few months ago; my daughter's bedroom over there is still full of boxes of his stuff, he hasn't got a bedframe for her, is using her room for his computer equipment, place is basically a shambles. The last place was just full of garbage and it seems he found cleaning out the cat box beneath him, too, because my daughter would come back with an incredible pong. He did mow the lawn very neatly, though.


Until that last line, I was convinced we had married and divorced the same man! 8O

But, my ex-husband, while insisting that mowing the lawn was his job, rarely did it, and even then made a mess of it. :roll:



FunkMasterMike
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09 Oct 2013, 2:44 am

I'm no doctor, but if I had to guess why women date jerks its because it messes with their brains in a very skewed way. The "jerk" attitude doesn't usually take off til a relationship sparks...then things can get ugly.

Humans strive to become better people. Humans love challenges. Humans love solving problems, and when they do, they feel great about it too! Women who are in abusive relationships (most likely) think that when they are done fighting (verbal abuse, unfairness, etc), they think they have successfully solved a problem. Either that or some people love drama...which I never understood. Obviously these "jerks" do use manipulation and control to get what they want, how they want, when they want. As the relationship goes on, it can get much worse, and the "brainwashing" can get even worse. IMO, nobody should live like this, ever. :? You know why nobody is better than anyone else? Because everyone is in a class of their own.

Relationships are like anything in life. You can use it to benefit yourself and others or you can use it as a weapon to destroy things around you.

Also I love to cook and clean. Who doesn't like a clean house and awesome food? 8O



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Oct 2013, 3:15 am

"Why girls date jerks"

Maybe because nice guys keep asking this question, giving them free advertisement.



Codyrules37
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09 Oct 2013, 9:03 am

cuz jerks love to jerk off



Last edited by Codyrules37 on 09 Oct 2013, 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Geekonychus
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09 Oct 2013, 9:07 am

Pretty much sums it up:
[img][800:762]http://eatthattoast.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2011-09-19.gif[/img]

The ironic thing about "nice guys" complaining about women who date jerks is that they actually aren't that nice. The are whiny passive-aggressive omega males with internalized mysogony that make them repulsive and pathetic to any girl they try to get with. They don't even have the one good quality they claim to have. They will doom themselves to a life of bitter lonliness the more they cling to thier misguided persecution complex.

Case in point: If girls actually wanted to date jerks who disrespect and resent women, the OP would be rolling in p****..........



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09 Oct 2013, 9:21 am

Most people that you pass in the street are bored. Bored, bored, bored. Same old predictable life, draining responsibilities, millstone job. Same faces and places.

With a typical 'nice guy' (shall we say manipulative, not genuinely nice), you know what he wants, you know he'll be like a doormat to get it. He doesn't see the real woman, because he's not looking for that. There's something very artificial and dead about much of a relationship. It's boring. Hook up with him, and within a week you'd be able to plot the rest of the relationship.

Now, the 'jerk' at least can be unpredictable. And maybe he's got a bit of a nice, sentitive side at times. If a woman likes a touch of drama, especially after having lots of doormats as partners, then that could be fun. And some women have the need to 'save' a man - like the Beauty and the Beast effect, and a plot of countless Mills and Boon books.

Also, it's like owning a rottweiler that could turn on you - that energy can keep someone on their toes.

Obviously, though, I am not talking about men and women as a whole, everyone is different. I think things would be easier if we looked at the other person the way they were, not the way we wanted them to be.



lost561
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09 Oct 2013, 9:42 am

Geekonychus wrote:
Pretty much sums it up:
[pic]

The ironic thing about "nice guys" complaining about women who date jerks is that they actually aren't that nice. The are whiny passive-aggressive omega males with internalized mysogony that make them repulsive and pathetic to any girl they try to get with. They don't even have the one good quality they claim to have. They will doom themselves to a life of bitter lonliness the more they cling to thier misguided persecution complex.

Case in point: If girls actually wanted to date jerks who disrespect and resent women, the OP would be rolling in p****..........


What makes you so sure that you're not a nice guy?



Geekonychus
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09 Oct 2013, 10:41 am

Fine I'll bite........

For starters I don't feel the need to call myself nice. I'm kind to the people I like, indifferent to most others and sarcastic/sardonic to the dumb people.

I have a self esteem higher than zero and don't judge myself based on my ability to get laid. I encourage others to do the same. Similiarly when someone is complimented I don't go out of my way to "prove" that they don't deserve it.

I don't resent an entire gender because I've been rejected before. Nor do I feel the need to denigrate thier problems as not "man-caliber" and then hound them for pictures to "prove" how much easier they have it.

I don't use generalizations, personal anecdotes and objectivist dogma to "prove" that my views are the only right ones. Only a truly self-absorbed person would do that.

I have a girlfriend and before that I managed to have sex fairly regularly as soon as I gave up on the self-defeatest attitude.

I don't claim to know more about what a woman thinks than women do just because I'm a "researched" male.

I think chivalry is an outated and pathetic concept and doesn't make a person a gentleman so much as a sexist douche-waffle. Women aren't to be reveeared or despised (which nice guys seem to do simulatenously) any more or less than a man. They suck equally.

I would suggest reading up on "Nice Guy syndrome." It's the prefect example of how socially awkward men should not act if they have any desire to not die a virgin........



lost561
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09 Oct 2013, 11:19 am

Geekonychus wrote:
Fine I'll bite........

For starters I don't feel the need to call myself nice. I'm kind to the people I like, indifferent to most others and sarcastic/sardonic to the dumb people.

I have a self esteem higher than zero and don't judge myself based on my ability to get laid. I encourage others to do the same. Similiarly when someone is complimented I don't go out of my way to "prove" that they don't deserve it.

I don't resent an entire gender because I've been rejected before. Nor do I feel the need to denigrate thier problems as not "man-caliber" and then hound them for pictures to "prove" how much easier they have it.

I don't use generalizations, personal anecdotes and objectivist dogma to "prove" that my views are the only right ones. Only a truly self-absorbed person would do that.

I have a girlfriend and before that I managed to have sex fairly regularly as soon as I gave up on the self-defeatest attitude.

I don't claim to know more about what a woman thinks than women do just because I'm a "researched" male.

I think chivalry is an outated and pathetic concept and doesn't make a person a gentleman so much as a sexist douche-waffle. Women aren't to be reveeared or despised (which nice guys seem to do simulatenously) any more or less than a man. They suck equally.

I would suggest reading up on "Nice Guy syndrome." It's the prefect example of how socially awkward men should not act if they have any desire to not die a virgin........


The points I bolded have nothing what so ever to do with whether somebody is a nice guy or not. The rest is a fair response.

A nice guy can still have a girlfriend as you claim you have one, she just won't be good looking, and she will probably be overweight.

Chivalry is a tough subject, I personally believe in chivalry but I don't ever treat the women I take out for the first time with chivalry until I know that they appreciate it. Does that mean that I expect to get laid for holding the door open for the woman? No. Some women will indeed label you as the nice guy for holding the door open but that just comes down to seeing what each woman prefers. That's why my I tend to date women that are from third world countries from South America, and Asia in particular. Those women appreciate chivalry. American women don't seem to appreciate chivalry as much because they feel it sends the wrong message, so I let them open their own doors.. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't open doors for them.



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09 Oct 2013, 11:34 am

Because they are jerks themselves (those who only date jerks).

Those types of girls also tend to be quite man-hating, especially when the guy isn't attractive to them.



Marcia
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09 Oct 2013, 11:47 am

lost561 wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
Fine I'll bite........

For starters I don't feel the need to call myself nice. I'm kind to the people I like, indifferent to most others and sarcastic/sardonic to the dumb people.

I have a self esteem higher than zero and don't judge myself based on my ability to get laid. I encourage others to do the same. Similiarly when someone is complimented I don't go out of my way to "prove" that they don't deserve it.

I don't resent an entire gender because I've been rejected before. Nor do I feel the need to denigrate thier problems as not "man-caliber" and then hound them for pictures to "prove" how much easier they have it.

I don't use generalizations, personal anecdotes and objectivist dogma to "prove" that my views are the only right ones. Only a truly self-absorbed person would do that.

I have a girlfriend and before that I managed to have sex fairly regularly as soon as I gave up on the self-defeatest attitude.

I don't claim to know more about what a woman thinks than women do just because I'm a "researched" male.

I think chivalry is an outated and pathetic concept and doesn't make a person a gentleman so much as a sexist douche-waffle. Women aren't to be reveeared or despised (which nice guys seem to do simulatenously) any more or less than a man. They suck equally.

I would suggest reading up on "Nice Guy syndrome." It's the prefect example of how socially awkward men should not act if they have any desire to not die a virgin........


The points I bolded have nothing what so ever to do with whether somebody is a nice guy or not. The rest is a fair response.

A nice guy can still have a girlfriend as you claim you have one, she just won't be good looking, and she will probably be overweight.

Chivalry is a tough subject, I personally believe in chivalry but I don't ever treat the women I take out for the first time with chivalry until I know that they appreciate it. Does that mean that I expect to get laid for holding the door open for the woman? No. Some women will indeed label you as the nice guy for holding the door open but that just comes down to seeing what each woman prefers. That's why my I tend to date women that are from third world countries from South America, and Asia in particular. Those women appreciate chivalry. American women don't seem to appreciate chivalry as much because they feel it sends the wrong message, so I let them open their own doors.. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't open doors for them.


I nearly choked on my Coco Pops when I read the bit I've emboldened.

Now I've stopped laughing long enough to type this, I wondered if you would be so good as to share with us, how you would define a Nice Guy (TM).