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beneficii
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02 Oct 2013, 9:17 am

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/ar ... kui6RwyyIz

I basically agree with this article.



GGPViper
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02 Oct 2013, 11:05 am

From the article...

Article wrote:
The transformation of bodily alienation into a sexual identity - transsexualism - reflects society’s refusal to say, simply, ‘Look. You are confused. Let’s talk about this and find a way to alleviate your alienation from yourself.’ Instead we effectively say, ‘Congratulations, you are a transsexual! Go and have your body drastically modified by a doctor.’

Article wrote:
It is this fundamental hollowness of the so-called transsexual identity, the fact that it is in essence self-loathing dressed up as a positive way of life, which explains the sensitivity to criticism of trans activists. Communities or groups based on more meaningful, substantial, historical things than simply individual alienation potentially have the moral and intellectual resources needed to withstand ridicule - trans activists do not. They have a powerful instinct to guard their ‘identity’ from mockery or critique because they recognise that, at heart, there isn’t much to it.

What a nice man. And what a sagacious affectation of his perspicacious sapience in the gamut of aesculapian erudition...

... If it's all made up, then why is there such a ridiculously high suicide rate among transgender individuals?



thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 11:11 am

you can always rely on good old cis-gendered pundits to tell the trans community whats good for them. Salt of the earth, they really are.


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Declension
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02 Oct 2013, 11:40 am

Yuck. What a self-defeating article. Knowing that there are people like Brendan O'Neill in the world is a good reminder that the trans community can't afford to lighten up.



thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 12:05 pm

Declension wrote:
Yuck. What a self-defeating article. Knowing that there are people like Brendan O'Neill in the world is a good reminder that the trans community can't afford to lighten up.



Exactly. When you piss off chauvinist a***holes it should be a green flag for the TG community to up the ante, not to concede ground.


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Mike1
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02 Oct 2013, 12:16 pm

I don't understand why some people get sex change operations. I'm not gay, but it doesn't seem to me like it'd be worth it for someone to have their dick cut off just so they could have vaginal sex with their boyfriend. They could just have anal instead, and not need to have their body surgically altered. Or if it's two females, they could just scissor each other. Sex change operations don't really make people anymore stylish either. They shouldn't be showing their genitals to that many people. I guess people would still notice if they had breasts or not though. But someone could still get breasts or have their breasts removed without having their sex organs altered. Then again, some people might think it's kind of weird if they notice that some person, who they think is a girl, has a boner, or feels a lot of pain when they're kicked in the crotch. Maybe they should have it removed anyways, just in case.



thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 12:46 pm

Mike1 wrote:
I don't understand why some people get sex change operations.

Yes, that would be a consequence of being born into a body that is appropriate to your psychological gender.
Mike1 wrote:
I'm not gay

Being gay and being transgenderal are two completely different things.


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Mike1
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02 Oct 2013, 12:57 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Mike1 wrote:
I'm not gay

Being gay and being transgenderal are two completely different things.

Yes, but most people who aren't gay or bisexual wouldn't have much a reason to get a sex change operation. The only reason a straight person might want one would be so that they could get horny by looking at or playing with their own genitals. I guess, if they're flexible, they could also enjoy having oral sex with themselves. But I can't think of very many other reasons why a straight person would want a sex change operation.



Tequila
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02 Oct 2013, 1:05 pm

GGPViper wrote:
... If it's all made up, then why is there such a ridiculously high suicide rate among transgender individuals?


I think his point is that they are often deeply, deeply conflicted and unhappy inidividuals anyway, and perhaps the transgender issue masks something much more fundamental within them.



thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 1:47 pm

Mike1 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Mike1 wrote:
I'm not gay

Being gay and being transgenderal are two completely different things.

Yes, but most people who aren't gay or bisexual wouldn't have much a reason to get a sex change operation. The only reason a straight person might want one would be so that they could get horny by looking at or playing with their own genitals.


again, psychological gender and sexual orientation are two completely different entities. A 'straight' (dislike the use of this word in this context) person might want a sex change not because they identify as a straight member of their birth sex but as heterosexual or bisexual member of the opposite sex. A regular tendency within the TG community is that they feel repulsed while being intimate with members of their birth gender while in their 'cis-guise' but are completely fine with being intimate with members of their birth gender post transition. A lot of it to do is the feeling of their birth genitals as a reminder, and feeling repulsed by it.

Image if you will, you woke up tomorrow, in the body of the opposite sex against your wishes with all of the genderal traits and desires of your original sex intact. The feelings of physical alienation would be precisely analogous to what TG people experience every day.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 02 Oct 2013, 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GGPViper
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02 Oct 2013, 1:54 pm

Tequila wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
... If it's all made up, then why is there such a ridiculously high suicide rate among transgender individuals?

I think his point is that they are often deeply, deeply conflicted and unhappy individuals anyway, and perhaps the transgender issue masks something much more fundamental within them.

Transsexualism/Gender Dysphoria (depending on if you are using the ICD or the DSM) has a significant biological basis. It *is* fundamental.



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02 Oct 2013, 2:09 pm

beneficii wrote:
Trans activists really need to lighten up.

Just ignore them.


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Mike1
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02 Oct 2013, 2:16 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Image if you will, you woke up tomorrow, in the body of the opposite sex against your wishes with all of the genderal traits and desires of your original sex intact. The feelings of physical alienation would be precisely analogous to what TG people experience every day.

I have kind of a hard time understanding that, since I'm about moderately asexual leaning towards heterosexual, and I'm kind of androgynous in a lot of ways. I imagine that if I did somehow wake up one morning as a female with female sex organs, I could probably retrain my brain to be sexually attracted to males, though I probably wouldn't want to, because I prefer to be asexual. I don't think I'd really be any more or less happy as a female than as a male, but since I've been a male my whole life, it would seem kind of weird if I just somehow just changed genders overnight.



thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 2:17 pm

Mike1 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Image if you will, you woke up tomorrow, in the body of the opposite sex against your wishes with all of the genderal traits and desires of your original sex intact. The feelings of physical alienation would be precisely analogous to what TG people experience every day.

I have kind of a hard time understanding that, since I'm about moderately asexual leaning towards heterosexual, and I'm kind of androgynous in a lot of ways. I imagine that if I did somehow wake up one morning as a female with female sex organs, I could probably retrain my brain to be sexually attracted to males, though I probably wouldn't want to, because I prefer to be asexual. I don't think I'd really be any more or less happy as a female than as a male, but since I've been a male my whole life, it would seem kind of weird if I just somehow just changed genders overnight.


Yeah, stop trying to change the narrative of the question to obfuscate my point.


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thomas81
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02 Oct 2013, 2:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Trans activists really need to lighten up.

Just ignore them.


ignorance breeds agitation.


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Fnord
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02 Oct 2013, 2:26 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Trans activists really need to lighten up.
Just ignore them.
ignorance breeds agitation.

No, paying attention to people who try to make their problems mine "breeds agitation".


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