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sonofghandi
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15 Oct 2013, 7:06 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I don't understand why its such a far cry to extrapolate that to the case of for example, pharmaceutical companies that push the price of anti viral drugs so high that destitute people in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS cant possibly access them. Therein is the brutal coldness of the capitalist holocaust. It may be piecemeal but it is happening, surely and relentlessly. The only reason its not widely documented or publicised is the identities of the complicit.


Plenty of people talk about. Plenty of people know about it. Nobody does anything about it.

If it weren't for capitalism, the pharmaceutical companies would not have bothered with the expense of developing those drugs. Although I would definitely agree that there are some morally bankrupt people running those companies.


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adb
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16 Oct 2013, 9:49 am

thomas81 wrote:
not just a governmental level, some if not most of the perpetrators are private sector institutions like the world bank and USAID that enforce crippling debt interest rates that these nations have no hope of paying back. The end game is illiteracy, unemployment, child labour, disease, homelessness and massive food deficits in afflicted countries.

If you want to read more about how the american government works in cahoots with malignant private companies to cheat and destroy third world populations through larceny and usury, i would recommend buying a book called 'confessions of an economic hitman'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession ... ic_Hit_Man

Why do you attack capitalism when the problem is corruption? Corruption is a social problem, not an economic one, and it exists in every political/economic system.



adb
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16 Oct 2013, 9:57 am

thomas81 wrote:
I don't understand why its such a far cry to extrapolate that to the case of for example, pharmaceutical companies that push the price of anti viral drugs so high that destitute people in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS cant possibly access them. Therein is the brutal coldness of the capitalist holocaust. It may be piecemeal but it is happening, surely and relentlessly. The only reason its not widely documented or publicised is the identities of the complicit.

Why is it the responsibility of a US pharmaceutical company to worry about people in Africa?



ruveyn
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16 Oct 2013, 10:16 am

thomas81 wrote:

Hang on though, if we're talking about unintentional deaths then nothing, and I mean nothing, not even Stalinism or national socialism can hold a candle to capitalism. Economic policies of the banking institutions and neo-liberal countries that bleed the third world dry are directly and indirectly accountable for the deaths of 19 thousand children every day due to other wise preventable causes like malnutrition. Thats not biased or partisan data either, it comes from the world health organisation. This isn't from the 1940s or 1950's, its going on right now, under our noses.


No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn



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16 Oct 2013, 10:39 am

ruveyn wrote:
No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn

It's the states DUTY to help the capitalists keep goods away from the poor. Capitalism relies on monopoly through state violence, so it is causing the death of lots of people.



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16 Oct 2013, 10:41 am

RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn

It's the states DUTY to help the capitalists keep goods away from the poor. Capitalism relies on monopoly through state violence, so it is causing the death of lots of people.


That is because the government has been bribed to extend privileges that it should not have the power to extend. It is up to businessmen to succeed or fail on their own efforts. Governments should NOT bail out failing businesses.

The Corporate Cronies are the biggest Welfare Bums we have in our system.

ruveyn



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16 Oct 2013, 10:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn

It's the states DUTY to help the capitalists keep goods away from the poor. Capitalism relies on monopoly through state violence, so it is causing the death of lots of people.


That is because the government has been bribed to extend privileges that it should not have the power to extend. It is up to businessmen to succeed or fail on their own efforts. Governments should NOT bail out failing businesses.

The Corporate Cronies are the biggest Welfare Bums we have in our system.

ruveyn

Private property itself is a state privilege, that is a reality right wing "libertarians" need to deal with. All capitalism is cronyism.



ruveyn
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16 Oct 2013, 10:49 am

RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn

It's the states DUTY to help the capitalists keep goods away from the poor. Capitalism relies on monopoly through state violence, so it is causing the death of lots of people.


That is because the government has been bribed to extend privileges that it should not have the power to extend. It is up to businessmen to succeed or fail on their own efforts. Governments should NOT bail out failing businesses.

The Corporate Cronies are the biggest Welfare Bums we have in our system.

ruveyn

Private property itself is a state privilege, that is a reality right wing "libertarians" need to deal with. All capitalism is cronyism.


The right to own what is taken from unclaimed nature is a natural Right and is essential for life. Without property we perish.

As soon as you chew your food and swallow it that mess is Your property, not the government's.

And people have been hunting and growing their -own- food long before there were ever governments.

Property is as natural as air or water. It comes from nature and we take what we need in order to live.

ruveyn



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16 Oct 2013, 10:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
RushKing wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
No one has a DUTY to feed the hungry or heal their illnesses. It might be a generous gesture to do so, but it is not an absolute moral or legal requirement. Where did you get the notion that the fortunate are the keepers of the less fortunate?

ruveyn

It's the states DUTY to help the capitalists keep goods away from the poor. Capitalism relies on monopoly through state violence, so it is causing the death of lots of people.


That is because the government has been bribed to extend privileges that it should not have the power to extend. It is up to businessmen to succeed or fail on their own efforts. Governments should NOT bail out failing businesses.

The Corporate Cronies are the biggest Welfare Bums we have in our system.

ruveyn

Private property itself is a state privilege, that is a reality right wing "libertarians" need to deal with. All capitalism is cronyism.


The right to own what is taken from unclaimed nature is a natural Right and is essential for life. Without property we perish.

As soon as you chew your food and swallow it that mess is Your property, not the government's.

And people have been hunting and growing their -own- food long before there were ever governments.

Property is as natural as air or water. It comes from nature and we take what we need in order to live.

ruveyn

You are describing possession, not property.



thomas81
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16 Oct 2013, 11:41 am

adb wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I don't understand why its such a far cry to extrapolate that to the case of for example, pharmaceutical companies that push the price of anti viral drugs so high that destitute people in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS cant possibly access them. Therein is the brutal coldness of the capitalist holocaust. It may be piecemeal but it is happening, surely and relentlessly. The only reason its not widely documented or publicised is the identities of the complicit.

Why is it the responsibility of a US pharmaceutical company to worry about people in Africa?


because the medicines are the only chance that people living with HIV/AIDS have for a prolonged life.

Heres one for you, why was it the responsibility of Stalin to worry about people in Ukraine?


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thomas81
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16 Oct 2013, 11:44 am

sonofghandi wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I don't understand why its such a far cry to extrapolate that to the case of for example, pharmaceutical companies that push the price of anti viral drugs so high that destitute people in Africa suffering from HIV/AIDS cant possibly access them. Therein is the brutal coldness of the capitalist holocaust. It may be piecemeal but it is happening, surely and relentlessly. The only reason its not widely documented or publicised is the identities of the complicit.


Plenty of people talk about. Plenty of people know about it. Nobody does anything about it.

If it weren't for capitalism, the pharmaceutical companies would not have bothered with the expense of developing those drugs. Although I would definitely agree that there are some morally bankrupt people running those companies.


i would argue that it is BECAUSE of capitalism that cures are not being developed for AIDS or cancer. From the perspective of a for-profit pharamaceutical company, it makes no business sense to cure people permanently when you can have life long dependents on expensive, life preserving anti viral drugs or similar.


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adb
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16 Oct 2013, 5:31 pm

thomas81 wrote:
adb wrote:
Why is it the responsibility of a US pharmaceutical company to worry about people in Africa?

because the medicines are the only chance that people living with HIV/AIDS have for a prolonged life.

So what? It's not their responsibility to help those people any more than my well-being is your responsibility.

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Heres one for you, why was it the responsibility of Stalin to worry about people in Ukraine?

I'm not really familiar with this, outside of Stalin aggressively pillaging resources from the Ukraine in order to starve them into submission. Unless I'm mistaken, this doesn't relate. Can you explain the correlation?



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16 Oct 2013, 5:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:
i would argue that it is BECAUSE of capitalism that cures are not being developed for AIDS or cancer. From the perspective of a for-profit pharamaceutical company, it makes no business sense to cure people permanently when you can have life long dependents on expensive, life preserving anti viral drugs or similar.

That's not capitalism. That only happens if capitalism is inhibited in some way. With uninhibited capitalism, another company would make a superior product and win the customers.



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16 Oct 2013, 5:53 pm

adb wrote:
It's not their responsibility to help those people

Actually, that's exactly their responsibility.



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17 Oct 2013, 11:21 am

The_Walrus wrote:
adb wrote:
It's not their responsibility to help those people

Actually, that's exactly their responsibility.

Why?



thomas81
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17 Oct 2013, 1:45 pm

adb wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
adb wrote:
It's not their responsibility to help those people

Actually, that's exactly their responsibility.

Why?


^

its precisely this sort of nihilist capitalism that is the reason that the entire medical domain including medicine research ought to remain outside of the private sector. The profit motive costs lives.


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