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TRUE
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29 May 2007, 12:00 pm

This is a copy and paste of a post I made in the Women's Forum on Oxytocin:

------Beginning of paste------
Physical contact, especially that of an intimate (not necessarily sexual) nature, can release things in our bodies that serve to create a bonding experience. Like Oxytocin.

It helps create bonding in mates, in parent-child relationships, can reduce stress, etc. There's a whole ton of information that is out there. Here are a couple of links to get you started:

Oxytocin: The Hormone of Love:
http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/index.html

Bonding Matters: The Chemistry of Attachment:
http://www.babyreference.com/BondingMatters.htm

Being aware of the chemistry in our bodies is a good idea for the future. For gals, and for guys. One might not WANT to have a lot of close contact of a physical nature with someone until they are SURE they want to create a bond.

I don't mean just a sexual bond, because you'll get the emotional part with the sexual part, whether you want it or not. You'll see from just those two linked pages, that results vary in people. Of course they vary.

From the first link:
------Excerpt begin------
Different questionnaires, including the Inventory of Interpersonal Problems and the Adult Attachment Scale, were used to assess each woman's previous experiences with personal and close relationships. The results were significantly correlated with the recorded changes in bloodstream oxytocin levels.

Women whose oxytocin levels rose in response to massage and remembering a positive relationship reported having little difficulty setting appropriate boundaries, being alone, and trying too hard to please others. Women whose oxytocin levels fell in response to remembering a negative emotional relationship reported greater problems with experiencing anxiety in close relationships.
------Excerpt end------

The massage mentioned was neck and shoulder. Nothing sexual. It's all additive and cumulative. Have some bad experiences, it's hard to think of anything else but bad things, so being touched might be creepy, the levels of oxytocin fall, and the response is "get away from me you freak"

Have some good experiences, the level rises with the current good experience, and bonding occurs.

We'd have to add in a gazillion links on how to change our outlook, work on our anxiety, setting boundaries, etc.

We all have different pasts. Different experiences. The same person might have different responses to different people. I mean, I'm not just going to participate at a "feel my boobies" stand, like a lemonade stand. Laughing As in "You can touch me, but not everyone can."

And the same person might have different responses FROM people. As in "My last significant other really liked this, but the new one doesn't."
------End of Paste------

I thought some of the information might be useful for this discussion.

If one is averse to touch, then all that lovely Oxytocin is missed out on. Or if one thinks about touch as being a negative experience. It's complex, because of the other information that has already been mentioned in this thread.

If there was no "reward", because oxytocin wasn't being released, there might be that aversion to touch and social situations.

Then I have questions about wondering if an oxytocin supplement would be that effective. It is released as a reaction to something. To being touched by someone we are to bond with. I don't really want to bond with everyone. :lol:

I don't want to feel that open to anyone's input or touch or approach. I want it to be selective. As nature would have it. So that perhaps it could be used as a short acting thing with an existing couple. But I would hesitate using it in a crowd or group or work or party atmosphere.

We're talking about BONDING here. I don't want to cry every time the store clerk goes home because they are breaking the bond. Or that it's time to leave work, when I have just bonded with the entire floor. That is what would be going on in the mind...that I had just bonded with the entire floor. And that is weird.

I might have missed any mention of that, has anyone thought of that yet?



TheMachine1
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29 May 2007, 12:09 pm

TRUE wrote:
I don't want to cry every time the store clerk goes home because they are breaking the bond. Or that it's time to leave work, when I have just bonded with the entire floor. That is what would be going on in the mind...that I had just bonded with the entire floor.


I doubt I'm in much danger of that :lol: But I will report back whatever happens. I got an email saying I should get my order in 2-4 days.



TRUE
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29 May 2007, 12:56 pm

Keep a journal of your experiences. Really. You might not realize things changing until later on. Like when I was taking Neurontin, I didn't realize as the dosage was being increased how much more my depression increased. And how I became an angry person. I am not generally an angry person. It was gradual.

You will be bonding with all of us too. If this is effective. If you are chatting with me and a few others, while under the influence of this stuff, it WILL serve to create a mental bond with us.

That could be a good thing though. Will there be gift-giving? Do you need my address? :lol:



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29 May 2007, 7:32 pm

I think this is what I experience with the contact I have with the dogs I work with.I often feel kind of "high" after petting them and often stay an hour after I am "off the clock" to go around and pet and say good bye to them all.That's after working a 12 hour over-night, on my feet all night.I have never done that in any other job.When I am around people I have the opposite effect....I feel drained and cant wait to escape.I wonder if my "problem" isn't "not enough" of a chemical but what activates it?


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30 May 2007, 11:15 pm

I came across "Williams syndrome" in my oxytocin studies. I see its been mentioned a few times on WP as sort of the opposite of autism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_syndrome

Quote:
It is characterized by a distinctive, "elvish" facial appearance, along with a low nasal bridge; an unusually cheerful demeanor and ease with strangers, coupled with unpredictably occurring negative outbursts; mental retardation coupled with unusual (for persons who are diagnosed as mentally ret*d) language skills; a love for music; and cardiovascular problems, such as supravalvular aortic stenosis and transient hypercalcaemia. Williams syndrome shares some features with autism (such as difficulty understanding the state of mind of conversational partners[1]) and Fetal alcohol syndrome (e.g., certain facial features, possible mental retardation, and negative potential outbursts),[2] although persons with Williams generally possess very good social skills, such that this condition is sometimes called "cocktail-party syndrome". Temple Grandin, author of Thinking in Pictures, has claimed that the brain abnormalities of Williams syndrome are the opposite of those of autism.[3] There also appears to be a higher prevalence of left-handedness and left-eye dominance in those with Williams,[4] and cases of absolute pitch appear to be significantly higher amongst those with the condition.[5]

Another symptom of Williams syndrome is lack of depth perception and an inability to visualize how different parts assemble into larger objects (in assembling jigsaw puzzles, for example). This problem is caused by a defect in the brain that creates a sparsity of tissue in the visual systems of the brain. A team of researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health used functional magnetic-resonance imaging (fMRI) to watch the blood flow of the brains of test subjects while they were performing two tasks involving spatial relations. People with Williams Syndrome showed weaker activity in the section of the brain associated with spatial relations. Scans of brain anatomy of test subjects with Williams indicated a deficit of brain tissue in an area of the same section of the brain mentioned above. This deficit partly blocks transmission of visual information to the spatial-relations region of the brain. In the test, all participants of the study measured in the average intelligence range, to remove the possibility that the retardation aspect of Williams syndrome would have an effect on the visual systems of the tested individuals.


http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews ... eld_2005.w

Quote:
Damasio also points to some pretty interesting hypotheses about well-known pathologies, including autism and William's syndrome. The first is characterized by a relative lack of social bonding and trust; William's syndrome patients "approach strangers fearlessly and indiscriminately." He raises the question of whether this level of trust may come from excessive oxytocin release. One may alternatively ask whether it comes from an alteration in the underlying neural structures affected by oxytocin, but whether it is the first of the second, it seems likely that the trust-related mechanisms of the brain require both a structural and neurochemical input



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31 May 2007, 2:41 pm

Sounds like to much would also be a problem.I dont think trusting humans "to much" is a very good thing in this culture and it also sounds like they have difficulty understanding theory of mind...which would cause a lot of problems if you had a strong desire to be friendly and couldnt tell the other person was not(or worse,a preditor).


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01 Jun 2007, 1:48 am

Got the Oxytocin spray

5-31-07 22:19
took three pumps to get the sprayer working but I managed to get a

pleasant vanillia spray into my nose (1 spray).

5-31-07 22:21
I felt a strange sensations in my eyes like a cooling effect.

5-31-07 22:26
Strange I did just pet a dog and tell him I love him. All while

forgeting about the spray I did a few minutes ago.

5-31-07 22:44
Did not die so taking a second spray. I notice more of the underlying

chemical preseravtive (chlorobutanol)in the solution that time. The Eye

sensation stated again like 1 minute later. Maybe its

dilation/constriction of the blood vessels?
Feel kind of relaxed but my legs and feet are still wanting to shake.

5-31-07 23:00
Legs seem content to be still now. Oh supposable oxytocin can improve

some of the other non-social related autistic tendencies.To get near

the amounts used in studies I need 13 sprays.

5-31-07 23:08
Got an IM and my leg is shaking again :)

5-31-07 23:36
Took my 3rd dose kinda of burned that time.

6-01-07 00:46
Taking 4th dose. I was reading about oxytocin seems it can cause one to
excrete more sodium in the urine. I have high blood pressure and think

I'm salt senstive to(it raises my pressure) so maybe low oxytocin

activity in persons on the sprectrum would put them at a slight

increase risk of high blood pressure? Oh it seems to reduce blood

pressure anyway maybe prehaps from other mechanisms. Legs are mostly calm now.

6-01-07 01:37
I noted my daydreams have shifted to bizare subjects like kidnapping a
famous movie star treating her very nice all while holding a long or

short postion on the stock of the small film company that is about to

relase her latest movie. No I would never do that :) just given a
window into my mind on oxytocin. I tend to normally daydream often about

legit bussiness ideas and inventions.



krex
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01 Jun 2007, 3:55 am

Keep us updated.I have normal blood pressure,which s abit odd as I smoked for 20 years and am 43,so might be to low before smoking?

If your sodium goes low will that effect your potassium levels?I know,to high can be dangerious for the heart.Maybe should have had a blood test before and after taking it.


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01 Jun 2007, 9:27 am

I think I mentioned this before but not sure if I provide post on the artical where it might be possible to asorb oxytocin through the skin if its pre-treated with Iodine.

Quote:
1: J Control Release. 2007 Apr 2;118(2):185-8. Epub 2006 Dec 9.
Links
Topical iodine facilitates transdermal delivery of insulin.
Sintov AC, Wormser U.

Department of Clinical Pharmacology and School of Pharmacy, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Beer Sheva 84105, Israel.

Transdermal delivery of insulin is a non-invasive alternative to the subcutaneous injection of insulin in diabetic patients. It has been found that skin pretreatment with iodine followed by a dermal application of insulin results in reduced glucose and elevated hormone levels in the plasma. Topical iodine protects the dermally applied insulin presumably by inactivation of endogenous sulfhydryls such as glutathione and gamma glutamylcysteine which can reduce the disulfide bonds of the hormone. Thus, the effect of iodine is mediated by retaining the potency of the hormone during its penetration via the skin into the circulation. The proposed procedure might be applicable for additional disulfide-containing peptides such as calcitonine, somatostatin, oxytocin/vasopressin and their analogs.

PMID: 17270303 [PubMed - in process]


6-01-07 1:59
5th dose

6-01-07 2:08
About to walk dogs so took a 6th dose so I have ample in my system.

6-01-07 5:04
Taking 7 & 8 dose

6-01-07 6:59
Taking 9 & 10 dose

6-01-07 9:15
Taking 11 & 12 dose

------------------
I read eyes tearing can be a side effect of oxytocin nasal spray used by women to increase milk production. So that might explain why i felt some sensation in my eyes?

http://www.medicinenet.com/oxytocin-nasal/article.htm

Quote:
SIDE EFFECTS: May cause some nasal irritation, runny nose, or tearing of the eyes.



Last edited by TheMachine1 on 01 Jun 2007, 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

BigCloud
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01 Jun 2007, 10:04 am

Where can u get this stuff? And could u possibly get prescribed this as a medication for being an aspie?? :?



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01 Jun 2007, 10:13 am

BigCloud wrote:
Where can u get this stuff? And could u possibly get prescribed this as a medication for being an aspie?? :?


I list many different ways you can obtain it in this thread. But assuming your in the US and have a doctor now treating you for autism spectrum conditions you could get him to write an rx and then you send it to :

http://www.leesilsby.com/autism.html



richardbenson
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01 Jun 2007, 2:52 pm

i thought oxycontins were used to treat cancer and aids



TheMachine1
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01 Jun 2007, 3:14 pm

richardbenson wrote:
i thought oxycontins were used to treat cancer and aids


Many people seem to confuse oxytocin (a natural peptide) with OxyContin (codeine derivative trade name) so do not feel bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycodone OxyContin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin Oxytocin



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01 Jun 2007, 3:18 pm

oh. hah a slight misunderstanding 8O



calibaby
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01 Jun 2007, 5:24 pm

I have some of the oxytocin in a bottle from verolabs.. and it works.

I use it before i go out. and it works pretty good for me at least.



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03 Jun 2007, 2:44 pm

More Journal enties.

Quote:
6-01-07 12:22
Taking dose 13 & 14

Day 2
6-02-07 00:06
Taking dose 1 & 2

6-02-07 01:42
Taking dose 3 & 4

6-02-07 05:18
I napped from 2am-5am and did not walk my dogs. This maybe a result of
for geting my prozac dose. Anyway taking dose 5 & 6.

6-02-07 06:35
Maybe unrelated but I have been eating lots of high fat/protein food

the last 2
days.

6-02-07 07:35
Taking dose 7 & 8.

6-02-07 10:05
Taking dose 9 & 10.

6-02-07 12:45
Taking dose 11 & 12

6-02-07 14:10
Taking dose 13 & 14

6-03-07 3:03
Taking dose 1 & 2 woke up about 2 AM about to walk dogs.

6-03-07 5:17
Taking dose 3 & 4 Back from walk.

6-03-07 5:59
Taking dose 5& 6 might try larer amounts now till negative effects are

noted.

6-03-07 6:36
Taking dose 7 & 8.

6-03-07 7:16
Taking dose 9 & 10.

6-03-07 12:28
Napped many hours :( Taking dose 11 & 12

6-03-07 14:19
Taking dose 13,14,15,16


Hard to notice alot of postive effects as I rarely contact people in real life.


One action of oxytocin is to reduce the fear triggering in the amygdala.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/press/oxytocin_amygdala.cfm

Quote:
Trust-Building Hormone Short-Circuits Fear In Humans

A brain chemical recently found to boost trust appears to work by reducing activity and weakening connections in fear-processing circuitry, a brain imaging study at the National Institutes of Health's (NIH) National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) has discovered. Scans of the hormone oxytocin's effect on human brain function reveal that it quells the brain's fear hub, the amygdala, and its brainstem relay stations in response to fearful stimuli. The work at NIMH and a collaborating site in Germany suggests new approaches to treating diseases thought to involve amygdala dysfunction and social fear, such as social phobia, autism, and possibly schizophrenia, report Andreas Meyer-Lindenberg, M.D., Ph.D., NIMH Genes Cognition and Psychosis Program, and colleagues, in the December 7, 2005 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience.

"Studies in animals, pioneered by now NIMH director Dr. Thomas Insel, have shown that oxytocin plays a key role in complex emotional and social behaviors, such as attachment, social recognition and aggression," noted NIH Director Elias Zerhouni, M.D. "Now, for the first time, we can literally see these same mechanisms at work in the human brain."

"The observed changes in the amygdala are exciting as they suggest that a long-acting analogue of oxytocin could have therapeutic value in disorders characterized by social avoidance," added Insel.

Inspired by Swiss scientists who last summer reported1 that oxytocin increased trust in humans, Meyer-Lindenberg and colleagues quickly mounted a brain imaging study that would explore how this works at the level of brain circuitry. British researchers had earlier linked increased amygdala activity to decreased trustworthiness2. Having just discovered decreased amygdala activity in response to social stimuli in people with a rare genetic brain disorder that rendered them overly trusting of others, Meyer-Lindenberg hypothesized that oxytocin boosts trust by suppressing the amygdala and its fear-processing networks.

To test this idea, he asked 15 healthy men to sniff oxytocin or a placebo prior to undergoing a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scan, which reveals what parts of the brain that are activated by particular activities. While in the scanner, the men performed tasks known to activate the amygdala — matching angry or fearful faces and threatening scenes.

As expected, the threatening pictures triggered strong activation of the amygdala during the placebo scan, but markedly less activity following oxytocin. The difference was especially pronounced in response to threatening faces, suggesting a pivotal role for oxytocin in regulating social fear. In addition, oxytocin dampened the amygdala's communication with sites in the upper brainstem that telegraph the fear response. The results mirrored findings in rats 3, reported earlier this year by European scientists.

"Because increased amygdala activation has been associated with social fear in social phobia, genetic risk for anxiety and depression, and possibly with social fear in autism assessed during faces processing, this dual mode of action of oxytocin in humans suggests a potentially powerful treatment approach toward socially relevant fear," suggest the researchers.

People with autism characteristically avert their gaze from faces. A fMRI study4 reported earlier this year by NIMH grantee Richard Davidson, Ph.D., University of Wisconsin, and colleagues, found over-activation of the amygdala in people with autism when they were looking at faces. Meyer-Lindenberg said future studies may test oxytocin as a treatment for such social anxiety symptoms in children with autism.

"Future research may also examine how oxytocin affects the amygdala in women, the mode of action of related hormones such as vasopressin, and how genetic variants in these hormones and their receptors affect brain function," he added.

Also participating in the research were: Peter Kirsch, Christin Esslinger, Daniela Mier, Stefanie Lis, Harald Gruppe, Bernd Gallhofer, Justus-Liebig University, Giessen, Germany; Qiang Chen, Sarina Siddhanti, Venkata Mattay, NIMH Genes Cognition and Psychosis Program.


Image

Quote:
Functional magnetic resonance imaging data (red) superimposed on structural MRI scans. Frightful faces triggered a dramatic reduction in amygdala activity in subjects who had sniffed oxytocin, suggesting that oxytocin mediates social fear and trust via the amygdala and related circuitry.

Source: NIMH Genes, Cognition and Psychosis Program
Kosfeld M, Heinrichs M, Zak PJ, Fischbacher U, Fehr E. Oxytocin increases trust in humans. Nature. 2005 Jun 2;435(7042):673-6.
Winston JS, Strange BA, O'Doherty J, Dolan RJ. Automatic and intentional brain responses during evaluation of trustworthiness of faces. Nat Neurosci. 2002 Mar;5(3):277-83.
Huber D, Veinante P, Stoop R. Vasopressin and oxytocin excite distinct neuronal populations in the central amygdala. Science. 2005 Apr 8;308(5719):245-8.
Dalton KM, Nacewicz BM, Johnstone T, Schaefer HS, Gernsbacher MA, Goldsmith HH, Alexander AL, Davidson RJ. Gaze fixation and the neural circuitry of face processing in autism. Nat Neurosci. 2005 Apr;8(4):519-26. Epub 2005 Mar 6.