Desperate and Needy/Clingy are not the same thing

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Aaendi
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03 Nov 2013, 5:16 pm

I'm tired of people thinking that if they let me go on a date with them, I am going to annoy the s**t out of them, just because I want a girlfriend but can't find one. What makes people so sure that I'll be all pushy once somebody answers yes to a date, if nobody has even seen me out on a date before? If I don't act needy in normal everyday life, I wouldn't act needy on a date either, and wanting a girlfriend has nothing to do with it.



Stargazer43
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03 Nov 2013, 5:50 pm

Aaendi wrote:
I'm tired of people thinking that if they let me go on a date with them, I am going to annoy the sh** out of them,


How do you know that's what they're thinking?



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03 Nov 2013, 6:31 pm

What past experiences have made you think this way? Just because one situation or one person interpreted your behavior this way doesn't mean everyone will come to the same conclusions.



Aaendi
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03 Nov 2013, 8:42 pm

An annoyingly large number of people. It's in practically every book on dating advice, that wanting a girlfriend badly inherently means that you will bother her and invade her personal space constantly if she agrees to go on a date.



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05 Nov 2013, 2:02 am

Just because you want something badly doesn't mean it's going to be necessarily reflected in your behavior, and just because it's in a dating advice book doesn't mean it's true. In social situations, dating included, you have to trust real-life experience before anything else. You can always change your approach and change your behavior towards women if you feel that you're not doing your best in this area.

I was asking more about specific experiences....maybe you are being annoying or maybe you just think people see you that way. It's hard to tell if I'm not sure about how your experiences actually go.



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05 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

Here's something I honestly don't understand: why is desperation for love such a terrible thing? People act like wanting someone to love you more than themselves is some sort of crime against humanity, and that attitude breaks my heart.


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marshall
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05 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

I don't see what's so wrong about being "needy". Surely there are other "needy" people out there. You just have to find them. If everyone is told to be insecure about their loneliness, nobody ever finds what they truly need. Everyone is forced to pretend they are 100% happy alone for fear of rejection. So they avoid true connection. The shallow hyper-individualism in our modern society is dysfunctional. Sure we have comforts and toys, but they don't make up for the spiritual sickness that plagues a significant percentage of us. I've learned that most people are robots who cope well in this superficial world. Some just don't cope at all.



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05 Nov 2013, 11:55 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Here's something I honestly don't understand: why is desperation for love such a terrible thing? People act like wanting someone to love you more than themselves is some sort of crime against humanity, and that attitude breaks my heart.


From my oppinion. I am one of the more loner-autistic people, that need to be for their own from time to time, so I need my personal freedom, which I already feel disturbed, when being forced to always explain what I am doing, when I am doing, where I am going, why I am going there... Maybe its simply because talking is very exhausting too me, that I am that much disturbed by it. So nothing against informing per SMS, but arguing everything to the end verbally exhausts me.

Someone saying to have a deep, desperate need of love, normally involves with that, that without that he feels right now unhappy, so that deep desperate need of love often involves in it the deep desperate need for feeling more happy. So when I am in an relationship with such an person, suddenly I am responsible for another persons life luck. That doubles the amount of effort, I must care for, because then I need to care for my own lifeluck and that I am happy for my partner, but as well have the effort to make him happy for me. So instead of caring for one persons happyness, I suddenly care for two. That feels to me just like someone saying he needs me to do his share of housework, additional to mine, and then sits back lazy watching TV and watching me, while I need to work my ass off.

A partners job is to make you happier, by being the way you are, and by being the way you are a person, that makes your partner more happy. So its on me to care for, that I am happy and relaxed to make my partner happier. Thats what I am responsible for. But I am not in general responsible for someones elses complete lifeluck. Thats simply too much for me and I wont carry that. Specially if the person itself thinks, that the effort of making himself happy is not worth doing so, why should I do that for him instead? I am a grown up partner, and by doing so it is my job to support him in what he does, and do the thing he might not be able to do. Not to be a mum, lifting everything, including our boths life happyness, on my own. I am totally willing to lend my hand and help. But thats something else, then being forced to have the complete responsibility of my partners happyness.

If you want to be a good partner, care as well for being happy, because thats part of being a good partner. But the term desperate needs involves for me, that a person is rather unhappy actually, so that seems not good for a partnership.



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06 Nov 2013, 12:15 am

I agree that we can't control other people, nor should we attempt to. However, there's one flaw in your reasoning, where my situation was concerned. I never wanted Michelle (my ex) to carry her own load on top of mine, but to allow herself to trust that I'd carry her load as well.

I fell in love with her because in all my life, she's the only one who actually gave a damn out of something other than pity or blood. I was a wreck when we met, in almost every sense of the word, and she gave me a reason to keep going. For once, I felt like all the darkness in my life and heart was finally going away...but it returned with a vengeance when she left me the first time. As much as I loved her, and tried desperately to trust her, my heart wouldn't let me. Every time it seemed like things were going well, we'd attempt a serious discussion only to have it quickly become a fight.

The strange thing is that, after almost 13 years, I still can;t bring myself to hate her. I've tried to forgive, but I'll never forget, and she's accused me of deliberately holding the past over her head. Long ago, I saw a brilliant light inside her, when those beautiful blue eyes stared back at me. Now, I believe its still there, but I'm beginning to lose faith that she'll ever let go of her anger and pain. I made some very damaging emotional choices, but so much of what drove us apart had nothing to do with me. I wanted to save her, and I thought helping her would somehow show her how close she is to my heart. After all the pain I'd unintentionally caused to so many around me in my life, I saw Michelle's love as my one chance for redemption. No one else ever made me want to be better, the same way as she did.


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klaus
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06 Nov 2013, 1:42 am

Schneekugel wrote:
A partners job is to make you happier, by being the way you are, and by being the way you are a person, that makes your partner more happy.


While I agree with this, I would also add that in reality for relations to work (IMO), it requires some compromises from both sides too. You can't go through one with the attitude that Aimee Mann describes in in one of her songs:
"It's not like you would lose some critical piece
If somehow you moved point A to point B
Maintaining there is no point changing 'cause
That's just what you are "
I think it is expected from partners to give in about SOME things that matter too much for the other, and finding middle points. Because the truth that we all know is that maintaining a long'term relation (specially after that initial lusty phase :P) is REALLY hard and demands a lot of rational strategy.



klaus
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06 Nov 2013, 1:45 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
I agree that we can't control other people, nor should we attempt to. However, there's one flaw in your reasoning, where my situation was concerned. I never wanted Michelle (my ex) to carry her own load on top of mine, but to allow herself to trust that I'd carry her load as well.

I fell in love with her because in all my life, she's the only one who actually gave a damn out of something other than pity or blood. I was a wreck when we met, in almost every sense of the word, and she gave me a reason to keep going. For once, I felt like all the darkness in my life and heart was finally going away...but it returned with a vengeance when she left me the first time. As much as I loved her, and tried desperately to trust her, my heart wouldn't let me. Every time it seemed like things were going well, we'd attempt a serious discussion only to have it quickly become a fight.

The strange thing is that, after almost 13 years, I still can;t bring myself to hate her. I've tried to forgive, but I'll never forget, and she's accused me of deliberately holding the past over her head. Long ago, I saw a brilliant light inside her, when those beautiful blue eyes stared back at me. Now, I believe its still there, but I'm beginning to lose faith that she'll ever let go of her anger and pain. I made some very damaging emotional choices, but so much of what drove us apart had nothing to do with me. I wanted to save her, and I thought helping her would somehow show her how close she is to my heart. After all the pain I'd unintentionally caused to so many around me in my life, I saw Michelle's love as my one chance for redemption. No one else ever made me want to be better, the same way as she did.


I don't know your story (hope the best for you) but this was beautifully written :(



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06 Nov 2013, 2:18 am

What's wrong with needy? Anything you do is never good enough and they act all controlling and get upset and take things so personal. Like I had an online friend and he would get upset if I didn't know what to say or couldn't carry on a conversation or if I didn't respond fast enough. I also had an ex who was needy too and it was not good because I felt whatever I did was never good enough and nothing was ever enough. Even one of my online friends was harassed and stalked by a needy person and she wouldn't even let him get offline and would get upset when he wouldn't be online.


As for what's wrong with desperation, it looks like you will take anyone and it doesn't matter who you are and it's not like they are with you because because they like who you are and enjoy you, it's because they just want a partner. Lot of people feel uncomfortable by that so they run for the hills.


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06 Nov 2013, 2:49 am

League_Girl wrote:
What's wrong with needy? Anything you do is never good enough and they act all controlling and get upset and take things so personal. Like I had an online friend and he would get upset if I didn't know what to say or couldn't carry on a conversation or if I didn't respond fast enough. I also had an ex who was needy too and it was not good because I felt whatever I did was never good enough and nothing was ever enough. Even one of my online friends was harassed and stalked by a needy person and she wouldn't even let him get offline and would get upset when he wouldn't be online.
Desperation can lead to manipulation, but the two aren't inherently linked.


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As for what's wrong with desperation, it looks like you will take anyone and it doesn't matter who you are and it's not like they are with you because because they like who you are and enjoy you, it's because they just want a partner. Lot of people feel uncomfortable by that so they run for the hills.
That sounds more like aimless desperation, rather than focused; I've experienced both multiple times.


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06 Nov 2013, 3:00 am

klaus wrote:
I don't know your story (hope the best for you) but this was beautifully written :(
Thanks; my best writing is done when I'm emotionally charged. The biggest complication between Michelle and I now, is that she has a daughter who's now 6 years old now, from a relationship with another man while we were apart. I always resisted having kids, because my own father left before I was born, and I was scared of making the same choice. My youth was often devoid of tenderness and love, so I've no idea of how to pass those traits to a child. I told Michelle that even though her daughter isn't mine, I'd love her as best as I knew how, because I love her mother. The two are living with the father now, and a part of me thinks its best to just let Michelle be...but the rest of me still longs to be whole, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to hold a conventional job due to AS and epilepsy. They deserve both financial security and love, but Michelle's said her daughter's father isn't an emotional person. I'm worried about what to do, torn between giving up on her for good or staying the course. I'm so tired in the depths of my being; sleep's the only time I get any semblance of peace.


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06 Nov 2013, 5:27 am

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For once, I felt like all the darkness in my life and heart was finally going away...but it returned with a vengeance when she left me the first time.


That involves the big problem for me. Ending an relationship with an person, whose complete life luck is based on that relationship, involves that ending the relationship takes as well again away the persons life lucks. And thats simply such a huge burden, that I was afraid of. So it would cause me to be afraid of even starting an relationship with that person.

Its not meant in a bad way, it simply would scare me of, because I dont want to feel emotional ersponsible for maybe making someone feel so miserable, even if logic tells me, thats its not my fault if someone feels that way automatically, when not being in an relationship. I cant work with that, it burdens me horrible. As well as I would be afraid, what will be, when something doesnt work perfectly. Relationships have wonderful good times, but there are bad times as well. If every bad time, automatically means my partner being forced to feel miserable, thats simply too much as I could carry. Sometimes you simply are in an arguing, sometimes you bash your head, and all of that is ok, as long as you are able to handle it and hug each other, after banging your head a bit. But for willing to step forth again, you as well needs some positive reserves left, even when bad stuff happens. :( While, if everything is total miserable, the moment it doesnt work, I think you hardly can have that reserves.

There might be really wonderful people, that can deliver that ressources for two people easily, but I simply dont have that much energy. :(



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06 Nov 2013, 11:50 am

Schneekugel wrote:
That involves the big problem for me. Ending a relationship with a person, whose complete life luck is based on that relationship, involves that ending the relationship takes as well again away the persons life lucks. And that's simply such a huge burden, that I was afraid of. So it would cause me to be afraid of even starting an relationship with that person.
I've never heard of "life luck", and to be honest, it sounds like some New Age pantheistic babble. Also, I don't completely understand what you're talking about; is English your primary language?


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