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Shinzy
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20 Nov 2013, 5:09 pm

I'm not really sure how to handle this. It's a problem I've always had- at times when I am taken off guard or if I am very frustrated, I cannot speak in words, and instead make a noise.

It's like the air and energy to say words to express my feelings builds in my chest, but my tongue and brain cannot form them as it comes up, so instead it comes out as a yip or a bark.

It goes away after I get my bearings on the situation (though if I'm angry or upset I have to try really hard to grind the words out instead of barking).

Sometimes this happens with no warning to me at all (it happens suddenly before I know what's going on). Other times I get a bit of a warning before I make a noise, so I shut my mouth hard and try to non-verbally convey to a person to "give me a second" so I can actually talk.

Does anyone else have this problem? How do you explain it to people who give you weird looks after doing this? Has anyone had any luck on trying to train themselves not to do this?



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20 Nov 2013, 5:23 pm

I have this too.

But sometimes NTs express themselves this way too (eg "Phwoar" at a sexually-attractive person; "Mmmm" in general agreement (usually when trying to avoid further conversation); "Argh!" in response to a shock (sometimes done ironically); "Mmmm-mmmm" in response to a deeply-satisfying experience (such as a delicious meal); growling when very deeply angered ... and that's without even beginning to consider the wide range of (sometimes uniquely-individual) noises uttered during sexual encounters).

So while I tend to self-censor (in the way you describe) I also let it come out in particularly-intense situations. As long as you don't become overly self-conscious, and (having made your noise) carry on as though nothing had happened, you'd be surprised by how frequently it is taken as natural and subsequently forgotten about by witnesses.

(Of course, if this tendency is manifested in ways that have comic associations, while under individual personal scrutiny -- for example, a tendency to go "Quack" during job interviews -- you may have a serious problem).



Shinzy
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20 Nov 2013, 5:32 pm

Thank you very much for the input, Charity :)

This makes me feel a lot better. Thinking about it, yes, other people make these sounds too! I am only just now becoming a bit self-conscious about the sounds because I only recently realized that I even made them. I'm glad to hear that it's not something I have to be particularly worried about, thank you very much :D



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20 Nov 2013, 5:36 pm

i make noise instead of words too.


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Shinzy
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20 Nov 2013, 5:44 pm

I guess since I never talked about it with anyone, I kind of thought I was alone. This is really helping. Thanks for chiming in, Adam :)



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20 Nov 2013, 6:36 pm

It tends to be less acceptable when you're interacting on a one-to-one basis with an individual, so my general tactic in such situations is to choke down the noise until the feeling goes away, while maintaining eye-contact with the other person and adopting a facial expression indicating profound reflection on the matter (perhaps emphasised by tilting my head, or nodding) until I feel able to speak again.

Even if nothing very profound comes out of your mouth after that pause, it makes the other person think that you have been applying yourself very deeply to the subject (or were perhaps distracted by some other thought). In any event, being NT, they probably won't remember it two seconds later.

I've observed this tendency to make unexpected noises during conversation by a few fellow-autists (and not a few NTs, come to that), but have never been able to locate any specific clinical research into this behaviour.

I personally wonder whether it's a unrecognised subtype of Tourette's Syndrome, which has a lot of characteristics in common (spontaneity of expression, social inappropriateness, uniquely personal, etc). The reason why I wonder this is because I strongly believe myself to have a mild case of Tourette's, characterised by unpredictable utterances of one-word expressions, which -- while not explicitly swear words as such -- are frequently-related to sex and violence, and could therefore be highly shocking to someone in a normal social situation.

But I have learned to cope with this aspect of my personality by only allowing myself to have an 'outburst' when I am sure that I am on my own (occasionally at a very loud level of expression), or (if an irrepressible urge arises in a public situation) choking it back completely (with the result that it then dominates my thoughts for a bit!), holding it back until (for example) I can go the toilet and let it out there, or (if I can't escape at all) muttering it intensely through gritted teeth, as quietly as possible.

I've never sought diagnosis for my suspected Tourette's (which is only a minor case, at best) because I've learned to adapt my behaviour so that it isn't a social problem (indeed I doubt that even close family members suspect it exists), so it never has any negative impacts on my perception by others, so there doesn't seem any point.

I wonder what an autism specialist would say if you were to approach him/her and explain your tendency to make non-verbal sounds in stressful situations? You could end up having a syndrome named after you!



Shinzy
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20 Nov 2013, 6:43 pm

CharityFunDay wrote:
It tends to be less acceptable when you're interacting on a one-to-one basis with an individual, so my general tactic in such situations is to choke down the noise until the feeling goes away, while maintaining eye-contact with the other person and adopting a facial expression indicating profound reflection on the matter (perhaps emphasised by tilting my head, or nodding) until I feel able to speak again.

Even if nothing very profound comes out of your mouth after that pause, it makes the other person think that you have been applying yourself very deeply to the subject (or were perhaps distracted by some other thought). In any event, being NT, they probably won't remember it two seconds later.

I've observed this tendency to make unexpected noises during conversation by a few fellow-autists (and not a few NTs, come to that), but have never been able to locate any specific clinical research into this behaviour.

I personally wonder whether it's a unrecognised subtype of Tourette's Syndrome, which has a lot of characteristics in common (spontaneity of expression, social inappropriateness, uniquely personal, etc). The reason why I wonder this is because I strongly believe myself to have a mild case of Tourette's, characterised by unpredictable utterances of one-word expressions, which -- while not explicitly swear words as such -- are frequently-related to sex and violence, and could therefore be highly shocking to someone in a normal social situation.

But I have learned to cope with this aspect of my personality by only allowing myself to have an 'outburst' when I am sure that I am on my own (occasionally at a very loud level of expression), or (if an irrepressible urge arises in a public situation) choking it back completely (with the result that it then dominates my thoughts for a bit!), holding it back until (for example) I can go the toilet and let it out there, or (if I can't escape at all) muttering it intensely through gritted teeth, as quietly as possible.

I've never sought diagnosis for my suspected Tourette's (which is only a minor case, at best) because I've learned to adapt my behaviour so that it isn't a social problem (indeed I doubt that even close family members suspect it exists), so it never has any negative impacts on my perception by others, so there doesn't seem any point.

I wonder what an autism specialist would say if you were to approach him/her and explain your tendency to make non-verbal sounds in stressful situations? You could end up having a syndrome named after you!


I've actually thought about Tourette's before because of a few spontaneous hand movements and whistling sounds that I sometimes cycle through (and once they start, I cannot just "stop" them- I have to let them finish). It would definitely be nothing severely impacting my life, though.

So it's interesting to think about it along that line! I'd be really interested to hear if anyone has any information at all about these kinds of things, if it exists :)



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20 Nov 2013, 7:09 pm

Like I say, I've scoured the internet for research that might even be conceivably-relevant or related to this phenomenon, but have found nothing. (If you find something, then let me know -- this is a subject about which I have been curious for years).

Of course, it could have been described back in the 1960s by some obscure field-specific research group, whose never-examined yellowing papers on the subject are now tucked away, deeply lost among the enormous contents of some university library somewhere -- but even if this is the case, it has still not accrued a set of diagnostic criteria, or even an official name, which makes me think that its existence is currently not recognised (or even suspected) by the relevant specialist field.

If we could find a researcher keen to make his or her name by identifying and formally classifying a subcategory within the field of autistic behaviour types, it would be interesting to see how it would be pursued.

I know a couple of researchers at Cambridge University's Autism Research Centre -- I could always make an initial approach to them, asking how to get someone interested, I suppose.

I dunno. Just speculating really. Would be interesting to pursue, but we'd need more people willing to be considered case studies. We have three on this thread, and that's a start I suppose ...!



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20 Nov 2013, 7:31 pm

I have ever since I was a kid, but not because I couldn't speak words at the time. I just couldn't think of anything to say.


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CharityFunDay
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20 Nov 2013, 7:47 pm

How do you deal with it in adult life?



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20 Nov 2013, 8:23 pm

I don't tend to make unique noises when I can't find words but I do make hand gestures. My fingers will flex and extend or just kind of move around a bit.


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dortman1099
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20 Nov 2013, 11:10 pm

Charityfunday's advice is very constructive. And their description of having to suppress noises until they can let them out privately mirrors what I do.



blueblahbleh
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20 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

Sometimes I make strange noises and funny sounds just because I feel like it. Sort of like making funny faces in the mirror when you are alone. Have fun and be yourself. :)



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21 Nov 2013, 12:57 am

Yes I do this too, I have worked very VERY hard at suppressing it actually.

I also sometimes inappropriately blurt out catch phrases from TV or movies, or references to media, instead of talking. I've had to repress this too. Like if someone would say but where is the pepperoni on this pizza I'd blurt out "where's the beef?!", but imagine a really inappropriate situation. :)



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21 Nov 2013, 2:05 am

TheSperg wrote:
I also sometimes inappropriately blurt out catch phrases from TV or movies, or references to media, instead of talking. I've had to repress this too. Like if someone would say but where is the pepperoni on this pizza I'd blurt out "where's the beef?!", but imagine a really inappropriate situation. :)


I know exactly what you mean.

While it can be regarded as a personal embarrassment or a source of harmless private amusement, it's also a tendency that (in my experience, anyway) can be harmlessly expressed if you have a friend with a similar sense of humour, with whom you can develop a shared repertoire of catchphrases. So it becomes a sort of private language and can be indulged frequently. Just so long as you both keep adding to the stock of material so it doesn't become tired.

My current best mate and I do this all the time, and it's not a substitute for having a sense of humour in general.

Quite a few of my best friendships throughout my life (from primary school onward) have had an intensely-personal vocabulary of catchphrases and stock expressions, gleaned from sources such as overheard conversations, stupid remarks made by TV news presenters, obscure but ridiculous lines from movies, impressions of cartoon characters, bygone advertising slogans, unintentionally-amusing turns of phrase read in newspapers, s**t jokes, rubbish lyrics, impressions of sound effects, etc, etc, etc.

So if you have a tendency to repeat certain things, such a relationship offers a territory in which that tendency can not only be expressed harmlessly, but can become a form of personal bond. And such shared references can be riffed on and developed in unpredictable ways, such as:

* Being expressed in different formulations (e.g., by putting them into excessively formal language, if dealing with a manager or university lecturer, so that the joke goes right over their head)
* Delivered spontaneously in response to specific remarks on TV programmes
* Thrown into conversation with other people at appropriate moments (leading to much personal hilarity, but the confusion of others)
* Altered and adapted to refer to specific circumstances, etc,

until they become playing pieces in an ongoing private game, the object of which is to come up with the best spontaneous formulation relevant to any given situation.

Once your shared repertoire of suitable material is sufficiently large, this game can be restarted on a frequent basis, but this is highly-unpredictable because it depends on the spontaneous outbursts of its participants, and such an outburst's sheer unexpectedness is one of the qualities that makes it so amusing.

God ... By describing it in such a dry and analytical way, I have managed to make it look about as appealing as membership of one of those groups who get together to recite Monty Python sketches.

But despite that, the above is a highly-dynamic, intellectually-challenging and always-evolving private game, whose participants simultaneously seek to outdo each other and to objectively enjoy (for being inherently amusing) and appreciate the quality (on an artistic/performance level) of each other's entries, and this friendly competition (where no-one keeps score) becomes a unique and integral quality of the friendship.

The possibilities are endless, although admittedly quite tiresome for people who aren't in on the joke (although sometimes that adds to its amusing qualities).