Is there really a war on the poor?

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21 Nov 2013, 6:55 pm

John Kasich, the Republican governor of Ohio, has done some surprising things lately. First, he did an end run around his state’s Legislature — controlled by his own party — to proceed with the federally funded expansion of Medicaid that is an important piece of Obamacare. Then, defending his action, he let loose on his political allies, declaring, “I’m concerned about the fact there seems to be a war on the poor. That, if you’re poor, somehow you’re shiftless and lazy.”

Well, it surprises that a Republican would say this, but at least Governor Kasich accepts the reality of things. What do you think? Is there really a war on the poor?

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Sharkbait
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21 Nov 2013, 7:44 pm

No, there's not a war on the poor. It's general apathy being described as a war. Calling it a war is a very poor analogy.

Mamselle
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21 Nov 2013, 7:49 pm

Sharkbait wrote:

No, there's not a war on the poor. It's general apathy being described as a war. Calling it a war is a very poor analogy.

I disagree. There is a lot more than apathy toward the poor these days--there is open scorn, hostility, and animosity on the part of way too many people, unfortunately some of them highly visible public figures.

xenon13
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21 Nov 2013, 7:51 pm

Indeed there is.

adb
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21 Nov 2013, 8:34 pm

It would be interesting to see empirical data regarding the number of times the poor are criticized versus the wealthy.

I rarely hear complaints about the poor, but I hear nonstop whining about the wealthy. When I hear about the attitude of the wealthy toward the poor, it's from the poor. The wealthy don't seem to care much.

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21 Nov 2013, 8:39 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/opini ... .html?_r=0

Paul Krugman wrote:

...Republican hostility toward the poor and unfortunate has now reached such a fever pitch that the party doesn’t really stand for anything else — and only willfully blind observers can fail to see that reality....

...I still sometimes see pundits claiming that the Tea Party movement is basically driven by concerns about budget deficits. That’s delusional. Read the founding rant by Rick Santelli of CNBC: There’s nary a mention of deficits. Instead, it’s a tirade against the possibility that the government might help “losers” avoid foreclosure. Or read transcripts from Rush Limbaugh or other right-wing talk radio hosts. There’s not much about fiscal responsibility, but there’s a lot about how the government is rewarding the lazy and undeserving.

Republicans in leadership positions try to modulate their language a bit, but it’s a matter more of tone than substance. They’re still clearly passionate about making sure that the poor and unlucky get as little help as possible, that — as Representative Paul Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, put it — the safety net is becoming “a hammock that lulls able-bodied people to lives of dependency and complacency.” And Mr. Ryan’s budget proposals involve savage cuts in safety-net programs such as food stamps and Medicaid.

All of this hostility to the poor has culminated in the truly astonishing refusal of many states to participate in the Medicaid expansion. Bear in mind that the federal government would pay for this expansion, and that the money thus spent would benefit hospitals and the local economy as well as the direct recipients. But a majority of Republican-controlled state governments are, it turns out, willing to pay a large economic and fiscal price in order to ensure that aid doesn’t reach the poor.

The thing is, it wasn’t always this way. Go back for a moment to 1936, when Alf Landon received the Republican nomination for president. In many ways, Landon’s acceptance speech previewed themes taken up by modern conservatives. He lamented the incompleteness of economic recovery and the persistence of high unemployment, and he attributed the economy’s lingering weakness to excessive government intervention and the uncertainty he claimed it created.

But he also said this: “Out of this Depression has come, not only the problem of recovery but also the equally grave problem of caring for the unemployed until recovery is attained. Their relief at all times is a matter of plain duty. We of our Party pledge that this obligation will never be neglected.”

Can you imagine a modern Republican nominee saying such a thing? Not in a party committed to the view that unemployed workers have it too easy, that they’re so coddled by unemployment insurance and food stamps that they have no incentive to go out there and get a job.

So what’s this all about? One reason, the sociologist Daniel Little suggested in a recent essay, is market ideology: If the market is always right, then people who end up poor must deserve to be poor. I’d add that some leading Republicans are, in their minds, acting out adolescent libertarian fantasies. “It’s as if we’re living in an Ayn Rand novel right now,” declared Paul Ryan in 2009.

But there’s also, as Mr. Little says, the stain that won’t go away: race.

In a much-cited recent memo, Democracy Corps, a Democratic-leaning public opinion research organization, reported on the results of focus groups held with members of various Republican factions. They found the Republican base “very conscious of being white in a country that is increasingly minority” — and seeing the social safety net both as something that helps Those People, not people like themselves, and binds the rising nonwhite population to the Democratic Party. And, yes, the Medicaid expansion many states are rejecting would disproportionately have helped poor blacks.

So there is indeed a war on the poor, coinciding with and deepening the pain from a troubled economy. And that war is now the central, defining issue of American politics...

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21 Nov 2013, 8:53 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pj8QKTvRTQ[/youtube]Possibly but then again a lot of rich folks like this guy are arrogent douchebags with god complexes paired to make up for their insecurities.

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21 Nov 2013, 9:07 pm

Mamselle wrote:

Sharkbait wrote:

No, there's not a war on the poor. It's general apathy being described as a war. Calling it a war is a very poor analogy.

One of the most irritating is the northeastern part of this state. It's a hostile region with a lot of really poor people and then a few who don't care about them at all and one of them is a US senator representing the region and everyone likes him because he is an MD turned politician. Just because he's an MD is a big deal and impresses a lot of people. but his political philosophy completely goes against the Hippocratic Oath imo. How can an MD believe what he believes and still care about people's health? Blows my mind. He doesn't really give a you-know-what if anyone can afford to see a doctor. I just don't see how Doctors make good politicians unless they are all for people being as healthy as they can possibly be. Otherwise, it's a conflict of interest.

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21 Nov 2013, 10:26 pm

There is no "war" against the poor; just scorn, contempt, anger and derision.

And "poor" is a relative term ... People who are wealthier than I have told me that a person of my "class" is a waste of their time, while people poorer than I have beaten the homeless, and even set them on fire.

It all depends on your economic status, and the perspective you have on those who are of greater or lesser status.

adb
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21 Nov 2013, 10:34 pm

Fnord wrote:

Where do you guys find people like this? I've been all over the world; to almost every state in the US; spent time with people at the bottom and with people at the top. I've seen almost none of this.

What I see all the time is poor people bitching about attitudes the wealthy don't have and wealthy people pretty much disregarding poor people entirely. That's why I'd like to see some empirical data. I'm having a hard time accepting the anecdotal evidence that wealthy people are scornful or contemptuous of poor people.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Nov 2013, 11:19 pm

Fnord wrote:

Most of the poor aren't homeless although the term poor can include them. The poor are mostly people living in tin can shacks and dilapidated hovels, or slum lord apartments. They live pay check to pay check, have nothing saved and tend to qualify for certain government programs. They can have crappy jobs that hardly pay anything like hammering shingles on roofs or other low paying, low skilled labor jobs. They often have lower IQ or language barriers so they cannot go to school and get anything better.

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22 Nov 2013, 1:07 am

Where do I find these people? Online. I have seen bad talk about the poor that they are lazy and leeches and moochers and they should go back to school and get an education to get off GA. I never understood the judging. Who wants to live poor? It's hell and not easy and these people have to decide between their phone bill or their electricity or skip meals because they cannot afford to eat three times a day, they have to wash their clothes in the tub because they can't afford to wash them at the laundromat, they can't save money or do anything fun, they have to pay their bills late and then pay a late fee, have to call their kid in sick because they missed the bus and they don't have enough gas to bring them to school and don't have the money to fill it, they have to live on top ramen noodles because that is all they can afford for their meal. But of course not every poor person lives like this. Some live fine but need GA to afford to eat but people are critical about what car they drive or what shoes they have on or what purse they have or because they have their nails painted or have a smart phone. People don't stop and consider maybe they lost their job and now they need some help to make their ends meet until they are back on their feet again. I mean are they supposed to sell everything they have because they are now poor? People have actually said online they should sell everything including their cars.

My in laws are poor and so is my sister in law and her kids and they live all together and yeah they do have a nice TV set and a nice phone and a Playstation three but they don't have a lot of stuff and they don't ever go anywhere because they are that broke but I have never figured out how they afforded a nice TV set or a PS3 or a nice phone if they were poor. They have always lived that way. It's possible they got them used but who knows but it's still expensive even if used. Both my in laws are disabled and so is my sister in law and she did go back to school for an education but guess what? No one will hire her and she doesn't have the money to move location for a job. So going back to school for an education does not gaurentee you won't be poor anymore. Now she is over qualified for a simple job so she is unemployed and has to get support from her parents since she got in trouble with welfare for not following their rules about job training. She was too busy going to school and didn't have the time for job training and got in trouble for it.

There is just lot of prejudice about the poor. I even feel people are forced to stay poor and that is what society wants especially after what happened to my sister in law.

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22 Nov 2013, 8:55 am

adb wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Where do you guys find people like this?

Northern Ireland, England, France, Spain, Italy, Canada, Brazil, Korea, Japan, India, Australia, Michigan, California, New York, Florida, Cuba, and every other place I've been to.

How could anyone go to these places an not find people who express contempt for those poorer than themselves while expressing admiration for the wealthy?

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Generally speaking, to slum-dwellers (the ones I've met through volunteer work), the homeless are considered parasites and home-owners are looked up to. To many home-owners (the ones I've met through the community group), slum-dwellers are lazy good-for-nothings, and millionaires are looked up to.

It all depends on a person's current economic status.

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22 Nov 2013, 9:11 am

I work as an ER nurse. There is plenty of contempt for the poor. I see it every day. Doctors and other nurses snark in the staff lounge about people on Medicaid or without insurance who misuse the ER by calling 911 to get a free ride to the hospital (free to them, a couple of grand to the ambulance company), or who come in for things they could go to a regular doctor for ... if they could find one who took Medicaid, that is.

I am among a small group of staff who have not been totally jaded by constant contact with this kind of thing over the years. I see these people, even the ones who are willfully gaming the system, as collateral damage of that system--because it shuts people out who cannot find work that affords them health insurance.

You can see contempt for the poor in grocery stores when someone checks out with a food stamp card and people look over the groceries they bought, as if their selections must pass muster with society as a whole. When I was a visiting nurse years ago, I saw a lot of poor families who did not have a working stove or refrigerator where they lived. Not every food stamp recipient is buying junk food because they are lazy and don't want to cook.

And this time of year, you can see plenty of contempt for the poor when people start talking about toy donation drives for various charities, and act offended because some poor kids dare to ask for gifts like PlayStations and other electronic toys. Kids are kids. They want what other kids have. They don't understand why they should just want a warm sweater or a pair of mittens. Many poor kids know, more painfully and firsthand than any critical adult, exactly what not having enough money means. It means the lights get shut off, or Mom has to go without food for a day so the kids can eat.

I'm Jewish and will be the first to admit that I'm not even sure I believe in God. I go to temple and I contribute to different charities that help the poor. I do this not because of my Jewish faith but because I'm a human being who has been lucky--to have a good education, a supportive family, three precious children (grown now), and the motivation to keep going even when life seemed really dark, like when my marriage failed. I'm lucky. Not everyone is. Those people need my help and I'm not begrudging a single penny of taxes or donations I can give for them.

Now, my taxes that go to finance dropping bombs on countries that have oil we want ... not so much.

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22 Nov 2013, 11:23 am

adb wrote:

It would be interesting to see empirical data regarding the number of times the poor are criticized versus the wealthy.

The poor would win, easily. The best way to demonstrate this is the burden of taxation. There are constant campaigns to reduce tax on the wealthy (in the UK, the top rate of tax was reduced to 45% recently, whilst the poor are being made to pay the "spare room subsidy" or bedroom tax and constantly have their benefits cut). People like it when politicians favour the rich.

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22 Nov 2013, 11:47 am

adb wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Ever heard the word trailer trash or N***er...

This is just common sense friend...

This needs no empirical references..where in the world have you been living not to have been exposed to this attitude...I'm just curious..as I want to move there...

But seriously.. I live in the deep south..this is republican fundamentalist Christian land at 80% or more..and it is one of the worst places for the contempt of anyone who is perceived as different..or lesser in social status..even inside the churches...

This still happens frequently..HERE..all one has to do is listen to the idle chatter in Super Walmart where i live..

But I am not afraid of ignorance..they know..no better in my opinion..their loss not mine....

As understanding and love is the simple way to bliss..Conflict against others is just human misery is all..in only my opinion....

But I will give you this..as if you were in these places in the military..the military from my observation is one place where people are treated for their merits in achievement..instead of their inherent attributes overall..the military installation was actually a haven for treating all people with respect as compared to my local community...

They took care of their shipmates..that was all..and everyone who was part of the team was a shipmate..no matter what rank and privilege they had in the service...

Maybe that has changed since I left but overall it was great when I was there....

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