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The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Nov 2013, 5:12 pm

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Having social experience at a young age is not a necessary indicator of not having AS either, there are people around who had them at an even younger age. Plus I didn't have my first girlfriend until after I made a major paradigm shift in my way of thinking, read and internalized plenty of PUA material to the point I had a better intellectual grasp of it than the friend who showed it to me, having him teach me and show me how he texted, how he thought, and doing various experiments, some of which were embarrassing failures.


Interesting, fine - I am not in the mood to discuss about your AS anymore - what about you make a thread about your PUA implementations and which PUA materials exactly? You said you wanted to help those with AS so here you go.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Nov 2013, 5:16 pm

leafplant wrote:
Boo I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you try using more words?



I should have used a stronger word than ineptness - it's social impairment; with persistent deficits in communication and interaction across multiple contexts+ other symptoms. Shyness is not that.



leafplant
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27 Nov 2013, 5:21 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Boo I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you try using more words?



I should have used a stronger word than ineptness - it's social impairment; with persistent deficits in communication and interaction across multiple contexts+ other symptoms. Shyness is not that.


I don't really know what shyness is. Sometimes people will tell me that I am shy which is hilarious, I'm the least shy person in the World - but I guess my social issues can look like shyness from the outside.


you said multiple contexts - but what about online vs in person? So many people on this forum write long and beautiful posts and engage in lively debate but presumably they would never be able to do that in person? I know that I find it much much much easier to express myself in writing than orally.

Is this what you meant?



JanuaryMan
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27 Nov 2013, 5:31 pm

Just an idea, but maybe this discussion (which isn't uninteresting btw!) could happen in a new or other thread?
For the OP's sake.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Nov 2013, 5:37 pm

leafplant wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Boo I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you try using more words?



I should have used a stronger word than ineptness - it's social impairment; with persistent deficits in communication and interaction across multiple contexts+ other symptoms. Shyness is not that.


I don't really know what shyness is. Sometimes people will tell me that I am shy which is hilarious, I'm the least shy person in the World - but I guess my social issues can look like shyness from the outside.


you said multiple contexts - but what about online vs in person? So many people on this forum write long and beautiful posts and engage in lively debate but presumably they would never be able to do that in person? I know that I find it much much much easier to express myself in writing than orally.

Is this what you meant?


No, by multiple contexts I mean social skills deficits in many areas like nonverbal, developing and maintaining relationships and friendships, social reciprocity; I am sure I've seen all this is the latest DSM's Autism diagnostic criteria.


In m still kinda shocked to find out that Shatbat is a hardcore PUA practitioner, btw.



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27 Nov 2013, 5:42 pm

That was back in 2009, when I was 16. I've changed a lot since then, and I don't longer read or follow PUA stuff.

But looking back, it was a necessary step and I wonder whether other people could benefit from it and use it as a sort of stepping stone. I am kinda busy right at this moment but I can elaborate on that idea later.

And sorry Shau for derailing your thread.


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Shau
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28 Nov 2013, 4:07 am

^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.



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28 Nov 2013, 4:25 am

Shau wrote:
^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.


Good for you!

*hug*


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Stalk
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28 Nov 2013, 8:06 am

Shau wrote:
^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.


is it really peace, or pieces?

hmm maybe I need to go get the body bag.



MCalavera
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28 Nov 2013, 10:07 am

Shau wrote:
^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.


Not a good idea to remain close friends for now, but your choice.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Nov 2013, 10:39 am

Shatbat wrote:
Thank you Kjas. I can't disagree with you there :P

Before going any further it would be useful to talk about what you think AS is, and what I think AS is. You say "AS by definition is chronic social ineptness + other symptoms". I prefer to look at the original cause, to me AS is a difference in brain structure which causes the social ineptness and other symptoms (which are actually very important, AS goes beyond social issues), like different sizes of certain parts of the brain, different wiring, different levels of neurotransmitters and neuroreceptors and so on. And when you say there is no cure for it, well, there certainly is not. The outward symptoms can be managed through coping mechanisms or choosing one's environment to a lesser or greater extent, but the underlying issues are still there, and will always be there.

You say there are things I've mastered, some of them are far from mastered. really. For starters, there is a big gap between knowing the right course of action and doing it when the moment arrives, which is something I struggle with. If I am knowledgeable about those subjects it is because I had problems with them and I seeked to solve them, an NT doesn't need to know about body language because he has it hardwired in his brain and just understands it automatically; I don't have that and therefore had to read, watch videos, observe people, think about those observations and how they related with previous observations and knowledge I already had, and all of this only works well when I focus my attention on it, otherwise I am pretty clueless. Ditto for social interaction in general, at one point of my life I read the "how to make friends and influence people" book, and I even took an university course on social psychology to understand social interaction better.

I actually do very badly in my bad days. My current strategy is to make sure I am on my "good days" as often as possible and I also have Sunday as my official "shut down" day, when I don't leave my apartment and rest from the world so I can recharge for the next week. And when that fails and I get a bad day anyway I end up locking myself in the room and skipping classes, not answering to my cellphone and having headaches when my apartment mates try to interact with me. All in all, I don't interact that much with people in the uni outside friends or good acquaintances, who don't tire me out. And if I have something like a date, I make sure I am in a good mood before going.

Having social experience at a young age is not a necessary indicator of not having AS either, there are people around who had them at an even younger age. Plus I didn't have my first girlfriend until after I made a major paradigm shift in my way of thinking, read and internalized plenty of PUA material to the point I had a better intellectual grasp of it than the friend who showed it to me, having him teach me and show me how he texted, how he thought, and doing various experiments, some of which were embarrassing failures.

I don't think I am such a child prodigy like the first example, I actually didn't start talking until I was two and a half, and had to go through speech therapy, and there was one point were my parents though I had some serious kind of mental impairment.

All in all, I have experienced shutdowns, meltdowns, and sensory overload. I have procrastination issues, four days ago I was glared at for saying the wrong thing. I am clumsy and drop objects thrown at me more often than not. My working memory is laughable, the very opposite of what should be the case of the little geniuses you mentioned. I am known for not getting sarcasm at times, and for talking too long about a single subject when I forget to keep myself in check. People think I'm odd, the best I can do is to make it odd in a good way, which is better than repressing everything all the time. I am still very much socially awkward in new situations with completely new people, I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. And I know how worse some of those issues were when I was younger, when I didn't have means to deal with them, or the knowledge to find those means. I believe I do have AS, then, and that it affects my way of life. And this is important, because I also believe I can help others with AS; this would probably be our sticking point because although I don't really take issue or am offended by whether you think I have AS or not, if you used that as an excuse to dismiss my advice and the things I have to say by answering something like "you don't have AS so what you say doesn't work and is useless for everyone else" then I'd have to take issue with that. Otherwise, thanks for your good wishes.



Hmm ok, I don't recall I've ever talked about those issues before but you were only used to talk about your positive social life/experiences - so I've made my assumption based on the previous perception, In fact I can relate to a lot of things in your post.

*scratching head* that's embarassing.

All in all, I should apologize to your doctor.

Now, let's talk about cooking and food.



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28 Nov 2013, 10:47 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hmm ok, I don't recall I've ever talked about those issues before but you were only used to talk about your positive social life/experiences - so I've made my assumption based on the previous perception, In fact I can relate to a lot of things in your post.

*scratching head* that's embarassing.

All in all, I should apologize to your doctor.

Now, let's talk about cooking and food.


*Hugs* INTJ :mrgreen:



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Nov 2013, 11:13 am

No hugs please -___-



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28 Nov 2013, 1:34 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
No hugs please -___-


Will you accept a manly fistbump then? :lol:


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28 Nov 2013, 10:39 pm

Stalk wrote:
Shau wrote:
^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.


is it really peace, or pieces?

hmm maybe I need to go get the body bag.


Peace that could easily fall to pieces still, so don't hold your breath.



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29 Nov 2013, 2:48 am

Shau wrote:
Stalk wrote:
Shau wrote:
^ Thread's over. It can drift to whatever topic for all I care now.

Me and the GF have managed to come to peace with each other, and can remain as friends, but friends only.


is it really peace, or pieces?

hmm maybe I need to go get the body bag.


Peace that could easily fall to pieces still, so don't hold your breath.


Cut contact with her and move on. You are going to end up trying and salvage something that is unsalvageable.