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LoveNotHate
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21 Dec 2013, 3:21 pm

snufkin wrote:
The computer has to be built and programmed by people who possess certain kinds of skills. Therefore, the workings of the computer is a reflection of the workings of their minds. It is not that people with ASD:s are like computers; but that the way a computer processes information stems from people with abilities similar to those of some people with ASD:s. A comparison between your memory and a computer could be a compliment, as long as he/she doesn't rule out your other qualities and/or considers you non-human.

Also, the question could be said to apply equally to NT:s, if we consider that all conscious brain functions are based on sensory inputs and memories of previous sensory inputs, and the general state of being we associate them with.


You appear to have a very deep understanding. The reason I created this topic is because of another thread where I tried to explain what "lacking NT common sense" meant. I think I did a good job eventually.

NT people have to memorize too. However, they inherently or through learning pick up on relationships, and priorities of relationships, so that when an event happens they know if and when an action should supersede another action. AS people do not appear to gain this insight unless it is explicitly memorized, so later the NT person tells the AS person, "you lack common sense".

I cited a website of an AS person as an example where the AS child had to pee but was earlier told that no one can leave the classroom. The child did not know that "needing to pee" could be an exception to the rule of "no one leaves the classroom". Somehow NT people know that certain events can supersede rules and AS people don't. So, when the AS child pees in the classroom, and the teachers asks, "How come you did not ask to use the bathroom?". Everyone laughs when the child says, "You said no one could leave", and the child is tormented later with "you lack common sense".

How do you explain that based on what you wrote ?



semota
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21 Dec 2013, 4:09 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
After reciting my quotations, and possibly impressing him, my doctor asked if I thought I was intelligent. I did not know how to answer. After my pause over the uncertainty of the question, he further
said my brain is like a computer and we don't think computers are intelligent or do we ?


What a prick. If I were you, I'd beat him up with a chair leg and I'd blame it on my autism afterwards.

Go find another doctor.



StatsNerd
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21 Dec 2013, 4:21 pm

pete1061 wrote:
This brings up the question, what is intelligence?

Is it the ability to memorize and recall data?
Computers do that extremely efficiently, better than humans.
Is it the ability to do mathematical calculations?
Again, computers excel at that.
Is it the ability to recognize patterns?
Computers are improving there but many humans are much better there.
The ability to learn and think creatively?
That is where humans have the advantage over computers.
There is also intuitive "knowing"
Science has a hard time explaining how many people can just know stuff that logically they shouldn't.

But then there's the question of how AS intelligence compares to NT intelligence.
For the most part, there is very little difference. AS sometimes provides advantages in very focused aspects of intelligence.


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This is a great question for a psych student on his/her first day of grad school; coincidentally enough, my mentor asked this of my cohort on our first day of grad school. There are dozens of intelligence tests, all claiming to measure the same thing - intelligence - but all of the tests are different.



foxfield
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21 Dec 2013, 4:26 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
I cited a website of an AS person as an example where the AS child had to pee but was earlier told that no one can leave the classroom. The child did not know that "needing to pee" could be an exception to the rule of "no one leaves the classroom". Somehow NT people know that certain events can supersede rules and AS people don't. So, when the AS child pees in the classroom, and the teachers asks, "How come you did not ask to use the bathroom?". Everyone laughs when the child says, "You said no one could leave", and the child is tormented later with "you lack common sense".


Interestingly, I believe that the behaviour of the AS child in this example could actually caused by extremely flexible thinking rather than excessive rigid thinking.

Presumably, the NT child knows the following rules that are relevant to this situation:
1) If I need to pee, I must pee immediately
2) If I need to pee, I must do it in the bathroom
3) The teacher has told us not to leave the room

If the NT child needs to pee, then rules 1) and 2) override rule 3). So they leave the room to use the bathroom.

For the AS child who can think flexibly, rules 1) and 2) need not be rules at all. Yes bathrooms are designed for peeing, but that does not necessarily mean one must pee in the bathroom. It is not a logical necessity that one must pee in the bathroom. So the AS child only has rule 3) to go by, and so stays in the room.

In summary: extremely flexible thinking may appear on the surface as extremely rigid thinking. Be wary of descriptions of AS people as very rigid inflexible black and white thinkers. I believe this is a myth, created by misinterpretations of stories like the one quoted.



btbnnyr
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21 Dec 2013, 5:02 pm

I think the peeing eggsample indicates rigidity instead of flexibility. It is too familiar to me to indicate opposite of what I know it is for myself. Although the thought process works in theory, I find rigidity much more plausible in this case.


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21 Dec 2013, 5:19 pm

foxfield wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I cited a website of an AS person as an example where the AS child had to pee but was earlier told that no one can leave the classroom. The child did not know that "needing to pee" could be an exception to the rule of "no one leaves the classroom". Somehow NT people know that certain events can supersede rules and AS people don't. So, when the AS child pees in the classroom, and the teachers asks, "How come you did not ask to use the bathroom?". Everyone laughs when the child says, "You said no one could leave", and the child is tormented later with "you lack common sense".


Interestingly, I believe that the behaviour of the AS child in this example could actually caused by extremely flexible thinking rather than excessive rigid thinking.

Presumably, the NT child knows the following rules that are relevant to this situation:
1) If I need to pee, I must pee immediately
2) If I need to pee, I must do it in the bathroom
3) The teacher has told us not to leave the room

If the NT child needs to pee, then rules 1) and 2) override rule 3). So they leave the room to use the bathroom.

For the AS child who can think flexibly, rules 1) and 2) need not be rules at all. Yes bathrooms are designed for peeing, but that does not necessarily mean one must pee in the bathroom. It is not a logical necessity that one must pee in the bathroom. So the AS child only has rule 3) to go by, and so stays in the room.

In summary: extremely flexible thinking may appear on the surface as extremely rigid thinking. Be wary of descriptions of AS people as very rigid inflexible black and white thinkers. I believe this is a myth, created by misinterpretations of stories like the one quoted.


It might depend on how badly they need to go...

Personally if I could wait I'd stay where I was but if I could not I'd leave the room and go to the loo regardless, although I might ask if it is ok to leave the room first or mention it to the teacher if possible.

If the teacher was not around, I'd just go pee if I had to go badly enough.

Alternatively you could pee in a container in the corner but that would not be very private.

If you are male you could also pee out of a window but that might not be very private either.

It depends...

I'll pee in anything if I am desperate enough.



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21 Dec 2013, 5:51 pm

Yes we are truly intelligent.


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21 Dec 2013, 6:19 pm

I'm reluctant ascribing individuals an IQ score. Does it truly measure the brains potential? Or does it merely tell you how good you are at doing IQ tests.



One area that Aspergoids do perform well, usually in excess of a NT is ........Wide Associative Thinking. I personally scored very high in this area until a psychiatrist labotomised my Pre frontal cortex with chemicals. but that's another story.


*Associative horizon concerns matters like divergent or lateral thinking, mental flexibility, fluency of association, non-conformism, humour, or individuality (resistance to various outside pressures like socialization). These traits provide the "spark" that causes work to be "original", they allow one to see what others miss, to think what none have thought before. Associative horizon is not easy and perhaps impossible to improve, but does relate to one's mental state and health, and is influenced by medication. It is attractive to lazy or unable persons to think Associative horizon is all there is to creativity, but alas; Ability and Conscientiousness, including hard work, are required as well.*


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LoveNotHate
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21 Dec 2013, 7:20 pm

foxfield wrote:

Interestingly, I believe that the behaviour of the AS child in this example could actually caused by extremely flexible thinking rather than excessive rigid thinking.

Presumably, the NT child knows the following rules that are relevant to this situation:
1) If I need to pee, I must pee immediately
2) If I need to pee, I must do it in the bathroom
3) The teacher has told us not to leave the room

If the NT child needs to pee, then rules 1) and 2) override rule 3). So they leave the room to use the bathroom.

For the AS child who can think flexibly, rules 1) and 2) need not be rules at all. Yes bathrooms are designed for peeing, but that does not necessarily mean one must pee in the bathroom. It is not a logical necessity that one must pee in the bathroom. So the AS child only has rule 3) to go by, and so stays in the room.

In summary: extremely flexible thinking may appear on the surface as extremely rigid thinking. Be wary of descriptions of AS people as very rigid inflexible black and white thinkers. I believe this is a myth, created by misinterpretations of stories like the one quoted.


Thank you.

I never heard of the concept of "flexible thinking".

I wish I knew it back when I was small and was told "you lack common sense".



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21 Dec 2013, 7:55 pm

semota wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
After reciting my quotations, and possibly impressing him, my doctor asked if I thought I was intelligent. I did not know how to answer. After my pause over the uncertainty of the question, he further
said my brain is like a computer and we don't think computers are intelligent or do we ?


What a prick. If I were you, I'd beat him up with a chair leg and I'd blame it on my autism afterwards.

Go find another doctor.


Yeah, cause nothing moves the diagnostics process forward like a stay in jail.


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21 Dec 2013, 8:40 pm

My thinking is flexible in the way suggested by the example: it's not that I don't know there are multiple rules, it's that I know of so many rules that I'm unsure which set of rules applies in the circumstance. It's not just the general rules, there is also the individual understanding of the rules held by the person in authority.

In the case of the example with the kid in the classroom, I know that one should pee in the bathroom, but I also know that under some circumstances it's okay to pee outside or in the company of others (camping, public events, coming home from the bar, if the bathrooms are full, etc), depending on the person and the circumstance. For all I know, there could be even more rules and there could be an understanding of the rules for the teacher that would allow different behavior.

It's more a paralysis of too many options than it is of only knowing the one. And in that case, I would probably hold it because rule three was the most rigid of the presented rules (and the one I could be the most sure of.)


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tic-tac
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21 Dec 2013, 8:56 pm

Quote:
Are AS people truly intelligent ?

Yes, they are. :D



VaticanWatch
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21 Dec 2013, 9:23 pm

Im sure that there are ret*ds out there among us as well



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21 Dec 2013, 9:50 pm

VaticanWatch wrote:
Im sure that there are ret*ds out there among us as well


Please do not use that word... in real life or here... ret*d is as bad as many racial slurs...


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loner1984
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21 Dec 2013, 9:59 pm

Well im most certainly not.

Its really annoying to always hear that stupid remark, oh you have autism or whatever, then your like really smart.

Just like no im not why should i be smarter because my brain is all messed up.

Its like oh you only got one leg, than you must be really good at using your hands. what?.



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21 Dec 2013, 11:52 pm

Feralucce wrote:
VaticanWatch wrote:
Im sure that there are ret*ds out there among us as well


Please do not use that word... in real life or here... ret*d is as bad as many racial slurs...


I find that word very crass, vulgar and ignorant.


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