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Woodpecker
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26 Jan 2014, 4:48 pm

Inventor wrote:
OK, one down and the rest to go. Is the ground now safe for children to play?
Dismantled and removed means placed somewhere else to be a long term problem.
The US has cut the reactor section out of subs, and moved them to Hanford.


I still can not follow you, are you asking if the land where the navy's training reactor is clean. I would say it is likely to be clean and suitable for any use.

Inventor wrote:
Recovering the high level waste at Fukushima takes technology we do not have. Nothing is impossible, just very expensive.

Filling with cement, decomission in place, is being used with underground gas tanks. Above ground, after fifty years of use, the land is gone for hundreds of years, and even when the cement decays, it will not be clean ground. Chernoble was buried in place, but the core stopped and became solid in the basement, and is not going in the groundwater and the ocean.


I think that worse things have been recovered already from some sites, a good quaility cement will last for longer than it takes for the cesium to decay away. Also it can maintain an alkaline state for 1000s of years. Most metals are less mobile when the pH is high, thus it is a good idea to use a cement.

Inventor wrote:
Yep I write a scattered mess, but it comes down to not having a plan of disposal for all of the grades of radioactive waste produced. The stuff has been piling up for seventy years, and the paperwork has lost a lot.

Being created for the Top Secret Holy Bomb, covers up the problem. I see it as what to do with the bomb production waste. Atoms for Peace has its downsides.

We are now faced with one of the worst case issues. but it will not be the last. it is at least somewhat confined. An attack on a spent fuel pool could be much worse.

The defense against fallout, stay inside, tape up the cracks around doors and windows, stay inside for three hundred years.


That is a bit of an overreaction and an underreaction in the same sentance. If fallout arrives near your home it is vital to add as much gamma shielding around where you are sheltering. A classic is to put a strong table in a corner (load bearing internal walls are best) and then to pile earth and heavy household objects around the table and on top of it. You then shelter under the table. Another classic is to dig a trench, park your car on top and fill the car with sacks of earth.

Taping up the cracks in the wall is not a important thing when compared with stacking concrete blocks around the part of the basement which is above the ground, or using shielding materials in the basement. I suspect that in a film it looks less sexy to be using a spade to fill a sack with earth than it does to be taping things up.

On the otherhand after a bomb detonation you would only need to shelter inside for two weeks even in a heavy fallout area before you can leave the shelter for a short time each day (to get food / water).

Inventor wrote:
Clearing farmland, scrape off the top six inches of soil, dispose of it.

Disposing of the waste as produced seems a missing plan.

They are building a field of holding tanks, but did not build one to make sure they could cool the reactor by gravity.

One man powered valve would have prevented this.

Run away and deny everything is not much of a plan.


For farm land what you do to clean it up depends on what has happened.


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Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity :alien: I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.


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26 Jan 2014, 11:30 pm

Avoiding cleanups is cheaper. Stay indoors, tape up the cracks around doors and windows was what the people around Fukushima were told to do, before they were told to leave.

Good design, and no meltdowns, they should be removable.

Good design would build it in a boron cement tub, planning for the worst. Chernoble did catch the melt in the cellar.

Not enough confinment, and a lack of, everything failed, now what, backup plan. There are towns with water systems uphill from the plant.

It was a wave that killed 20,000, so the remains of Fukushima could be made into a suitable sea wall. I do not think we should litter the landscape for thousands of years with old reactors. A thousand year sea wall would work along the Fukushima coast.

The buildings, surface, can be cut up and entombed in concrete, and that entombed in non radioactive boron concrete.

Clear the ground, expose the core melt, then call Woodpecker to dispose of it. The rest is fuel rods, that could be relocated to other plants.

All the houses and farmland within thirty miles is another problem. Will it just be closed like Chernoble?

We have a few more, on the west coast, along the shore, on fault lines, where we are expecting the big one.

For a short lived species of apes with very recent technology, we cannot think in the long terms of Atomic Energy.

I just do not trust apes.



Woodpecker
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27 Jan 2014, 5:32 pm

Well it seems the inventor thinks I am the man to call for nuclear things, I think that some special tools will need to be invented to recover the fuel from the damaged sites. The key thing is not to dig it up or pull it out of the water.


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Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity :alien: I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.


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28 Jan 2014, 6:22 am

Tell us how! Boron epoxy underground bubbles?

It is somewhere underground, somewhat in the ground water, and hopefully cooled off enough to become solid.

But these three several hundred ton slugs of dirt, rocks, and a reactor core, are beyond my thinking.

That is the scary part, what you cant see can kill you, and if you could see the melted core, you should be running away.

The main problem seems to be the groundwater.

The area is closed for fishing, so more fish will grow there, and whales and Bluefin come to feed.

Reincarnation might be true, so I worry about the future.



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29 Jan 2014, 3:55 pm

No I would not go for boron loaded epoxy, I would use a normal cement for most of the waste.

It should be a solid by now, I would expect it to be in the form of a solid lump by now.


_________________
Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity :alien: I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.