Why do people get mad when I defend myself?

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ResilientBrilliance
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15 Jan 2014, 12:07 am

George Zimmerman could kill an unarmed person in defense, right? But if I merely defend myself in a post, I get accused of attacking people. Is there any logical basis to this? Or is it just what people say because they are surprised when I fight back (verbally)? I never ever start anything with anyone innocent, but as soon as they mess with me, boy will they have it coming. I wonder if people don't expect my comebacks? Would it be better if I kept them simple like "you're ugly" or "I know you are but what am I." I've noticed people get esoecially angry when I pinpoint exatly what makes them foolish--perhaps the only thing they can come up with is "calm down" or stop "attacking." This is something I really hope to figure out, I am naturually curious about things although I often give up on understanding why people do the things they do.



bumble
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15 Jan 2014, 12:33 am

I have the same issue, even with people who attacked me first or whom consistently bully me. Apparently I am supposed to put up with being bullied with a smile on my face without saying anything.

On a few occasions I misjudged in the heat of the moment and launched a verbal attack on an innocent party but if that happens I am happy to sincerely apologise.

Taking the latter into account, as I don't want innocent folks getting caught up in the cross fire because some genuine jerks are trying to make my life difficult I figure the best way around the problem might be to outsmart them instead of getting angry and sounding off. People who bully others are not usually all that bright, manipulative, but not all that smart in the grand scheme of things. IE They still think they can make me hate myself and feel worthless by bullying me when:

A I don't believe in the concept of worthlessness and wonder if it's just some kind of control mechanism people use to encourage desired behaviour in an individual (you are worthless if you don't do have x, or y, or z or if you don't do x, or y, or z...). Ergo, I can't classify myself as something I don't believe exists and if I did where does that leave me? As a figment of my own imagination? But then if I do not exist then my imagination can't exist either so does that mean I'd be a figment of another persons imagination instead? If the latter is the case then can they pick a less troublesome storyline for my life please (i jest with the imagination part...its all philosophical).

B Why the hell am I going to hate myself because someone else is causing trouble or attacking me. All I am going to see is someone else causing trouble and attacking me.

C I don't like people who want to hurt others for their own amusement. Getting caught up in a misunderstanding is one thing, wanting to actually cause harm to someone else (but it emotional, psychological or physical) is not acceptable to me. Ergo I don't care if the nasty people don't like me. I don't need group approval to exist and I don't want to be a part of their warped little world.

D I don't conform to peer pressure. I am a very reasonable person when not under attack. If someone wants me to do something then I suggest they ask and give me the option of choosing. Trying to manipulate me by using peer pressure to bully me to get me to behave in a certain way won't work. Whether I am ASD or not, I don't really have an NT mindset and I don't share their belief system so trying to use techniques that work in regards to manipulating an NT is pointless.

As for people who are just argumentative, they just want to be right and they don't like it when you question them. You have to sing their praises and bring them offerings instead. They need your worship as their ego has to be masturbated on a regular basis and they need you to rub it off for them.



ResilientBrilliance
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15 Jan 2014, 12:46 am

bumble wrote:
I have the same issue, even with people who attacked me first or whom consistently bully me. Apparently I am supposed to put up with being bullied with a smile on my face without saying anything.

On a few occasions I misjudged in the heat of the moment and launched a verbal attack on an innocent party but if that happens I am happy to sincerely apologise.

Taking the latter into account, as I don't want innocent folks getting caught up in the cross fire because some genuine jerks are trying to make my life difficult I figure the best way around the problem might be to outsmart them instead of getting angry and sounding off. People who bully others are not usually all that bright, manipulative, but not all that smart in the grand scheme of things. IE They still think they can make me hate myself and feel worthless by bullying me when:

A I don't believe in the concept of worthlessness and wonder if it's just some kind of control mechanism people use to encourage desired behaviour in an individual (you are worthless if you don't do have x, or y, or z or if you don't do x, or y, or z...). Ergo, I can't classify myself as something I don't believe exists and if I did where does that leave me? As a figment of my own imagination? But then if I do not exist then my imagination can't exist either so does that mean I'd be a figment of another persons imagination instead? If the latter is the case then can they pick less troublesome storyline for my life please (i jest with the imagination part...its all philosophical).

B Why the hell am I going to hate myself because someone else is causing trouble or attacking me. All I am going to see is someone else causing trouble and attacking me.

C I don't like people who want to hurt others for their own amusement. Getting caught up in a misunderstanding is one thing, wanting to actually cause harm to someone else (but it emotional, psychological or physical) is not acceptable to me. Ergo I don't care if the nasty people don't like me. I don't need group approval to exist and I don't want to be a part of their warped little world.

D I don't conform to peer pressure. I am a very reasonable person when not underattack. I someone wants me to do something then I suggest they ask and give me the option of choosing. Trying to manipulate me by using peer pressure to bully me to get me to behave in a certain way won't work. I see what they are doing.

As for people who are just argumentative, they just want to be right and they don't like it when you question them. You have to sing their praises and bring them offerings instead. They need your worship as their ego has to be masturbated on a regular basis.

Thank you for the response, I'm glad to see at least one other person out there is still making sense. Yes it does seem like people only want to hear praise from others, even when they are wrong. They need to be right, or maybe they need to be right in front of other people to keep their ego in tact, and they get angry when I put up a fight. I wish I could avoid these people in the first place. But it's out of my hands, isn't it? All I can do is wait for the opportunity to get as far away from them as possible.



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15 Jan 2014, 1:02 am

I tend to try and stay away from them as much as possible.

Life is too short and society makes living hard enough as it is without adding extra and unnecessary woes to the pile.

I just want a quiet existence with the things I love most. But everyone is different. I think some of them enjoy the drama all the arguing creates as well.



jcq126
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15 Jan 2014, 1:07 am

You really made a thread about this? I have a strong feeling you are one of those self righteous people who think you are a lot more smart than you actually are. You complain about hostility yet the thread that sparked you creating this thread began going downhill when you became hostile and emotional over people not giving you what exactly wanted to hear. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Now you are trying to garner support in this thread and backed out of the other to start fresh. Must be difficult living life as you if such trivial matters deeply affect you this much.



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15 Jan 2014, 2:46 am

ResilientBrilliance wrote:
George Zimmerman could kill an unarmed person in defense, right? But if I merely defend myself in a post, I get accused of attacking people. Is there any logical basis to this? Or is it just what people say because they are surprised when I fight back (verbally)? I never ever start anything with anyone innocent, but as soon as they mess with me, boy will they have it coming. I wonder if people don't expect my comebacks? Would it be better if I kept them simple like "you're ugly" or "I know you are but what am I." I've noticed people get esoecially angry when I pinpoint exatly what makes them foolish--perhaps the only thing they can come up with is "calm down" or stop "attacking." This is something I really hope to figure out, I am naturually curious about things although I often give up on understanding why people do the things they do.



I have never seen your posts but my guess is it's possible you weren't defending yourself and you thought you were. I have seen too many posts online where someone would post something and then not like the responses they get so they attack those people and then the people attack back which is human nature I think to react to the meanness someone gives you when you did nothing wrong. Then the OP claims they are being bullied and plays the victim. So I am skeptical when I see anyone say they get in trouble for defending themselves. I just think the person is unaware of themselves so they either misread people and start the drama first and then they see the attacks they are getting due to them retaliating to their insults. Or they could be telling the truth but I am still skeptical because of what I have seen online at other places. I take it as a grain of salt. I don't even expect people to take me seriously when I say I have gotten in trouble for self defense.

It's also possible you could be breaking the rules when you defend yourself. Do you do any attacks or insults?

Maybe showing us one of those threads it has happened in would be a start so we all know what you're talking about and so we can give you more of an accurate answer.


Edit: Okay I read through your posts and didn't really see any attacks but I did see some hostility and you seem you take things the wrong way people say and out of proportion. It's not that you are defending yourself, it's you taking things people say the wrong way and they did nothing wrong. Oh yeah I did see I have responded to two of your threads and this is the third one now.


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Last edited by League_Girl on 15 Jan 2014, 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Jan 2014, 3:40 am

Because you "defend yourself" against things that aren't, in fact, attacks.
Misinterpreting you is not an attack.
Giving incorrect advice based on incomplete information is also not an attack.

Starting a post by saying "You're all essentially useless, but here's my last-ditch attempt to get something out of you" is.


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Authentic cadence: V-I
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Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


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15 Jan 2014, 4:31 am

ResilientBrilliance wrote:
George Zimmerman could kill an unarmed person in defense, right? But if I merely defend myself in a post, I get accused of attacking people. Is there any logical basis to this? Or is it just what people say because they are surprised when I fight back (verbally)? I never ever start anything with anyone innocent, but as soon as they mess with me, boy will they have it coming. I wonder if people don't expect my comebacks? Would it be better if I kept them simple like "you're ugly" or "I know you are but what am I." I've noticed people get esoecially angry when I pinpoint exatly what makes them foolish--perhaps the only thing they can come up with is "calm down" or stop "attacking." This is something I really hope to figure out, I am naturually curious about things although I often give up on understanding why people do the things they do.


Because people with AS are not social animals.

This basically means we do not want to form strong groups, but would rather make it on our own (at least our neurology is designed for that).

Forming strong groups requires finding out who is more dominant. This is done through "social play", which will by a person with AS typically be considered actual attacks (since they have no interest in forming that type of strong group).

So when you defend yourself you might say something that is not a valid defense in the group-understanding, but is a real attack (i.e. saying something that has no basis in some real weakness of someone else, only saying it to get back at them).

Solution: be content with your own company, and only socialize when needed. The best way to avoid confrontation is to keep things formal. People know they should keep a distance when you act formal.



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15 Jan 2014, 10:05 am

Remember: if you're autistic, you are duty-bound to tolerate all injustice and prejudice/bigotry/d-bagness hurled your way because you have *no right* to have an opinion. Those are for *real people*. :roll: :twisted:



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15 Jan 2014, 10:24 am

remember that george zimmerman was only defending himself because he threatened to kill travon and travon decided he wasn't just going to sit there and let the random guy with a gun kill him for no particular reason he could see. Are you george zimmerman or travon martin?


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15 Jan 2014, 10:56 am

Be nice to each other!

Just found the thread the fuss is all about. Meh most of the people on here are nice usually, maybe its just grumpy week on the internet :P

I could be wrong but it maybe the time of year. The weather is awful, the dark nights are in and everyone is broke because they are still recovering from xmas.

Personally though I am weird...I like the dark nights, and the rain, and the cooler weather and as I live alone Christmas was no more expensive for me than the rest of the year. I still don't have any money!

I am not very good at taking advice either, although it does depend on how the person puts it across. If it is laced with judgment i have more of a problem with it than if there is no judgement attached.

Hypothetical example:

You are too tetchy and jump to conclusions when making inquiries = judgmental and accusing.

When making inquiries it is better not to jump to conclusions where possible = none judgmental (no reference to the individual there) and none accusing.

Oftentimes I have already tried or thought of what they are suggesting which makes it difficult, as telling them can make you sound like a know it all unintentionally when you are just trying to come up with something that has not been thought of yet. It can seem like you are rejecting the time and energy they have spent trying to help you. I know you are not, but it can seem that way to them.

Then of course, there are those who do just want to be right
Those who don't like those who claim to be smarter/funnier/thinner...etc (been slaughtered on other sites in the past for mentioning my grade average from when I was at Uni).
Those who get caught up in the crossfire or get carried along with things
Those who misunderstood (I missed your sarcasm in your posts and had to rely on other posters to pick that up for me :lol: )
Those who want their ego rubbed

And so on. Neurology does not seem to affect some of those things (especially those to do with self acceptance).

Emotions get frayed, the debate becomes heated, attacks and squabbles are inevitable.

I am diagnosed with social anxiety and depression as well...they do like to try and make you socialise as they think it will bring you out of your shell (so to speak). I have 'don't know if I have it not' on my profile as I certainly don't identify as NT, have traits of ASD but no formal diagnosis. I don't know what the hell I am...a human of some kind is about all I can conclude at this stage. I might just stick with that!

But this is a good forum usually...lots of interesting chat here from some very intelligent and interestingly unusual people (the good kind of unusual not the insulting one).

Don't worry too much about your thread, a few of mine on this site and others have crashed as well.



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15 Jan 2014, 11:08 am

jcq126 wrote:
You really made a thread about this? I have a strong feeling you are one of those self righteous people who think you are a lot more smart than you actually are. You complain about hostility yet the thread that sparked you creating this thread began going downhill when you became hostile and emotional over people not giving you what exactly wanted to hear. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Now you are trying to garner support in this thread and backed out of the other to start fresh. Must be difficult living life as you if such trivial matters deeply affect you this much.

What makes you think you can come into my thread and personally attack me? It says much
More about you than it does me. Kiss my ass.



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15 Jan 2014, 11:13 am

ResilientBrilliance wrote:
jcq126 wrote:
You really made a thread about this? I have a strong feeling you are one of those self righteous people who think you are a lot more smart than you actually are. You complain about hostility yet the thread that sparked you creating this thread began going downhill when you became hostile and emotional over people not giving you what exactly wanted to hear. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Now you are trying to garner support in this thread and backed out of the other to start fresh. Must be difficult living life as you if such trivial matters deeply affect you this much.

What makes you think you can come into my thread and personally attack me? It says much
More about you than it does me. Kiss my ass.


No ass kissing...how about a group booty wiggle instead?



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15 Jan 2014, 11:17 am

League_Girl wrote:
ResilientBrilliance wrote:
George Zimmerman could kill an unarmed person in defense, right? But if I merely defend myself in a post, I get accused of attacking people. Is there any logical basis to this? Or is it just what people say because they are surprised when I fight back (verbally)? I never ever start anything with anyone innocent, but as soon as they mess with me, boy will they have it coming. I wonder if people don't expect my comebacks? Would it be better if I kept them simple like "you're ugly" or "I know you are but what am I." I've noticed people get esoecially angry when I pinpoint exatly what makes them foolish--perhaps the only thing they can come up with is "calm down" or stop "attacking." This is something I really hope to figure out, I am naturually curious about things although I often give up on understanding why people do the things they do.



I have never seen your posts but my guess is it's possible you weren't defending yourself and you thought you were. I have seen too many posts online where someone would post something and then not like the responses they get so they attack those people and then the people attack back which is human nature I think to react to the meanness someone gives you when you did nothing wrong. Then the OP claims they are being bullied and plays the victim. So I am skeptical when I see anyone say they get in trouble for defending themselves. I just think the person is unaware of themselves so they either misread people and start the drama first and then they see the attacks they are getting due to them retaliating to their insults. Or they could be telling the truth but I am still skeptical because of what I have seen online at other places. I take it as a grain of salt. I don't even expect people to take me seriously when I say I have gotten in trouble for self defense.

It's also possible you could be breaking the rules when you defend yourself. Do you do any attacks or insults?


Maybe showing us one of those threads it has happened in would be a start so we all know what you're talking about and so we can give you more of an accurate answer.


Edit: Okay I read through your posts and didn't really see any attacks but I did see some hostility and you seem you take things the wrong way people say and out of proportion. It's not that you are defending yourself, it's you taking things people say the wrong way and they did nothing wrong. Oh yeah I did see I have responded to two of your threads and this is the third one now.

Fair enough. I take posts literally, I do not make asssumptions. I appreciate your well thought response.

buffinator wrote:
remember that george zimmerman was only defending himself because he threatened to kill travon and travon decided he wasn't just going to sit there and let the random guy with a gun kill him for no particular reason he could see. Are you george zimmerman or travon martin?

The verdict shocked me because George Zimmerman started it. But hey I guess I'm supposed to just ignore people who start with me. Either way I might be killed.


Thanks bumble. And I didn't realize there was that option.



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15 Jan 2014, 11:31 am

ResilientBrilliance wrote:
jcq126 wrote:
You really made a thread about this? I have a strong feeling you are one of those self righteous people who think you are a lot more smart than you actually are. You complain about hostility yet the thread that sparked you creating this thread began going downhill when you became hostile and emotional over people not giving you what exactly wanted to hear. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Now you are trying to garner support in this thread and backed out of the other to start fresh. Must be difficult living life as you if such trivial matters deeply affect you this much.

What makes you think you can come into my thread and personally attack me? It says much
More about you than it does me. Kiss my ass.


I'm merely making an observation which I'm sure a lot of other people on this website have already made about you. You're not even Autistic, care to remind me why you are here? Is it because you figured you were smarter than all of us so you came to an Autism forum so people would blindly agree with you and bow down to you? I have met so many NTs exactly like you, it is sickening. You have the audacity and nerve to make a thread insulting posters and literally the FIRST line of your other thread started with "I keep coming to this place for help and never get any; this is a last ditch effort. " Then you expect us to welcome you with open arms and your belittlement towards us? Why don't you try the Bipolar forum, or maybe you'd fit into a Narcissist forum instead. Even your username reeks of arrogance.



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15 Jan 2014, 11:52 am

jcq126 wrote:
ResilientBrilliance wrote:
jcq126 wrote:
You really made a thread about this? I have a strong feeling you are one of those self righteous people who think you are a lot more smart than you actually are. You complain about hostility yet the thread that sparked you creating this thread began going downhill when you became hostile and emotional over people not giving you what exactly wanted to hear. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Now you are trying to garner support in this thread and backed out of the other to start fresh. Must be difficult living life as you if such trivial matters deeply affect you this much.

What makes you think you can come into my thread and personally attack me? It says much
More about you than it does me. Kiss my ass.


I'm merely making an observation which I'm sure a lot of other people on this website have already made about you. You're not even Autistic, care to remind me why you are here? Is it because you figured you were smarter than all of us so you came to an Autism forum so people would blindly agree with you and bow down to you? I have met so many NTs exactly like you, it is sickening. You have the audacity and nerve to make a thread insulting posters and literally the FIRST line of your other thread started with "I keep coming to this place for help and never get any; this is a last ditch effort. " Then you expect us to welcome you with open arms and your belittlement towards us? Why don't you try the Bipolar forum, or maybe you'd fit into a Narcissist forum instead. Even your username reeks of arrogance.


I probably should not intervene or butt in as they say, but as I don't like conflict and tend to like it when people are getting along...

I don't get on well with most NTs but I still think they should be allowed to use the site if they feel they have a good reason to. I think the OP said she has traits and maybe she likes it here most of the time (I am not diagnosed myself, but I come here because I have a lot of ASD traits and I feel I identify more with people on the spectrum in many ways than with people off of it...I don't know what world I belong in, but NT people live in a completely different world to me the majority of the time. It's also the only forum I stop to read replies on as I find the discussion here much more interesting than I do on NT boards, as well as the humour and style of communication).

@the OP

Which autistic traits do you feel you most identify with? If you don't mind my asking?