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RhodyStruggle
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08 Dec 2014, 9:56 pm

LKL wrote:
...as feminism becomes more intersectional the word 'feminism' becomes more and more anachronistic.


Yes and no. The problem as I see it is that feminist theory attempts to be both a specific theory of "gender struggle" and a general theory of "social struggle"; the anachronism obtains only in the latter case.


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AngelRho
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09 Dec 2014, 7:31 am

LKL wrote:
Along the same lines, as feminism becomes more intersectional the word 'feminism' becomes more and more anachronistic.

"Post-feminism"?



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09 Dec 2014, 9:44 am

LKL wrote:
There has recently been a move amongst some feminists to stop talking about 'pro-choice' and start talking about 'reproductive justice,' which argues for the ability to raise one's chosen offspring in safe and healthy environments, as well as being able to choose when and if to have children. Along the same lines, as feminism becomes more intersectional the word 'feminism' becomes more and more anachronistic.


That sounds like a good idea actually. The ability to choose not to have children when one doesn't want to is also good for the disability rights movement because people would be more likely to make that decision based on whether they could feel that they could manage children and whether or not they have support systems in place to help them. Think for example, mildly autistic people deciding whether or not to have children. That's opposed to the current status quo where society generally thinks that there is something wrong with people who don't want children, especially when they are married.



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12 Dec 2014, 1:09 am

Some do and some don't! The ones that don't are bigots themselves and fail to take responsibility for their own actions! The ones that don't even blame men who have nothing to do with their own failures in life! The ones that do try to distance themselves from the ones that don't but end up receiving the same title as the ones that don't! The ones that don't spew out garbage like men are garbage and are all rapists and take pleasure in oppressing women they are subhuman sacks of trash! The ones that do just simply see themselves equal to men and want the equal rights and priviledges of men and want to be known they are just as good as men are and not better! The ones that dont are professional whiners and pretend to be victims of attention to get money and take pleasure in immasculating men and are total misandrists!


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18 Dec 2014, 9:55 am

The way I see it as a male member of the general public is that if there are moderates and extremists - then the moderates need to LOUDLY call out the extremists in public in front of news cameras.

Otherwise a hapless Aspie bloke like me can easily think - "What -you want to exploit, enslave or kill me? Why? what have I ever done to you?". All the MOP has to go on are public statements from prominent Feminist Speakers like Jessica Valenti.

And how are they to know they don't speak for the entire political movement?



adifferentname
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18 Dec 2014, 11:32 am

alcockell wrote:
And how are they to know they don't speak for the entire political movement?


Without strong dissenting voices, they effectively do.



AngelRho
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18 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

alcockell wrote:
The way I see it as a male member of the general public is that if there are moderates and extremists - then the moderates need to LOUDLY call out the extremists in public in front of news cameras.

Otherwise a hapless Aspie bloke like me can easily think - "What -you want to exploit, enslave or kill me? Why? what have I ever done to you?". All the MOP has to go on are public statements from prominent Feminist Speakers like Jessica Valenti.

And how are they to know they don't speak for the entire political movement?

LKL put it very succinctly. I myself would go so far as to say that "feminism" is pretty much dead, and its would-be present-day equivalents, who really embody the SPIRIT of feminism, are more about cooperation between the sexes rather than taking a more militant stance. The public seems to equate "feminism" with that militant faction, a tiny minority, rather than "real feminists" who take a more moderate position. "Real feminists" are going to distance themselves from "feminism" as what the public associates with "feminism" becomes less what it's really all about. Feminists™ will become less and less respected. It would be like equating all of Christianity, the liberal groups along with conservative evangelicals, Catholics, and more/less liberal mainline groups, with Westboro Baptist.



white_as_snow
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18 Dec 2014, 5:14 pm

Do not forget: feminist have a dad, brother, grandpa, boyfriend....

They do like men. Hating on the badboy-norm is not hating on all men.



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18 Dec 2014, 5:24 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Do not forget: feminist have a dad, brother, grandpa, boyfriend....

They do like men. Hating on the badboy-norm is not hating on all men.


What do you mean by the "badboy norm"? I don't think that the "badboys" that you're thinking of even fit the majority of men rather than just being a stereotype, so I wouldn't call it a "norm". Also, feminists hate patriarchy and male-dominated society, they don't hate men. Those are two different things.



LKL
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18 Dec 2014, 8:05 pm

Patriarchy hurts men too.



WelcomeToHolland
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18 Dec 2014, 8:53 pm

I haven't read the replies here, but I identify as a feminist, and I like some men, and dislike others. Guess what? *whispers* (the same is true for my feelings about women)


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AspieOtaku
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19 Dec 2014, 3:07 am

The ones that don't and hate men are sexist worthless bigoted sacks of s**t! They are the reason why feminism gets a bad rep for those same ones are man haters and sexist misandrists and are totally subhuman sacks of garbage! They do not want equality they want a global matriarchy where every man is killed and castrated or living the rest of his days as a slave! These kinds of thinkers are garbage and I dont give a rats ass if I am labled as a Misoghynist for saying this but someone has to speak up against these pieces of crap if the legitimate feminists refuses to do so! I want gender equality not only for women but for us men as well and I am sick and tired of my male gender being vilified for every god damn thing! I am white too got a problem with that? If soo then piss off your a racist sexist bigot! *drops the mic*


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WelcomeToHolland
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19 Dec 2014, 10:27 am

Edited because my link didn't work the first time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/12/does-sexism-hurt-men-laci-green_n_6314888.html


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Jono
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19 Dec 2014, 12:51 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:


It may be better to link to the actual video. Laci Green is a Youtube vlogger:



AngelRho
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19 Dec 2014, 1:18 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
The ones that don't and hate men are sexist worthless bigoted sacks of s**t! They are the reason why feminism gets a bad rep for those same ones are man haters and sexist misandrists and are totally subhuman sacks of garbage! They do not want equality they want a global matriarchy where every man is killed and castrated or living the rest of his days as a slave! These kinds of thinkers are garbage and I dont give a rats ass if I am labled as a Misoghynist for saying this but someone has to speak up against these pieces of crap if the legitimate feminists refuses to do so! I want gender equality not only for women but for us men as well and I am sick and tired of my male gender being vilified for every god damn thing! I am white too got a problem with that? If soo then piss off your a racist sexist bigot! *drops the mic*

*picks up the mic*

Well…it's like when I tell my kids about gang violence in our area. In all likelihood we're not going to be affected by gang activity simply because we just aren't a part of that culture. We're above it, in a sense. I'm not saying we COULDN'T be affected, I'm just saying we don't run in those circles, we're not trying to impress gang members, and gang members have no interest in people like us.

What THOSE Feminists™ have to say about me as a man doesn't affect me. I'm not trying to impress them. I don't want anything from them. Let them have the free speech they're due and leave them alone.

What boggles my mind is how there do seem to be men who want to make these women happy, who want to impress them, and quite possibly date and/or fall in love with them. WHY??? Why do you care what they think about you? If it bothers you, don't hang out with them. Ignore them into oblivion. They are trees falling in a forest with no one around to hear. Whether they make sound or not is irrelevant. If she treats you lesser than filth, don't be with her. It's that simple. If she doesn't want to make you a sammich, quit asking!

*drops mic*



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19 Dec 2014, 3:10 pm

AngelRho wrote:
alcockell wrote:
The way I see it as a male member of the general public is that if there are moderates and extremists - then the moderates need to LOUDLY call out the extremists in public in front of news cameras.

Otherwise a hapless Aspie bloke like me can easily think - "What -you want to exploit, enslave or kill me? Why? what have I ever done to you?". All the MOP has to go on are public statements from prominent Feminist Speakers like Jessica Valenti.

And how are they to know they don't speak for the entire political movement?

LKL put it very succinctly. I myself would go so far as to say that "feminism" is pretty much dead, and its would-be present-day equivalents, who really embody the SPIRIT of feminism, are more about cooperation between the sexes rather than taking a more militant stance. The public seems to equate "feminism" with that militant faction, a tiny minority, rather than "real feminists" who take a more moderate position. "Real feminists" are going to distance themselves from "feminism" as what the public associates with "feminism" becomes less what it's really all about. Feminists™ will become less and less respected. It would be like equating all of Christianity, the liberal groups along with conservative evangelicals, Catholics, and more/less liberal mainline groups, with Westboro Baptist.


If you have to re-brand yourselves rather than running on your record, that means that you did something really wrong. Could you (or other feminists) name some "real feminists" so that we can have an honest debate about whether they're really moderate?