How do I Deal with These Clingy ASD People?

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anneurysm
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29 Jan 2014, 9:38 pm

I just responded to another post about clinginess and I was going to write the following, but I decided to create a new topic instead as I have discovered that I am in need of some advice. Any help or support with this would be great.

Due to my involvement in various ASD related pursuits, I meet a lot of people with ASD. Most of them gravitate towards me because I don't look like I'm on the spectrum and I am good at providing advice and support to them. However, I prefer to spend most of my social time with NTs because I am more comfortable around them and I socialize in a similar way they do.

Although there are a couple of people with AS that I do consider my friends and do enjoy spending time with, I would only like to be acquaintances with most of the people I meet with it. The problem is, I am too nice. If someone annoying asks me to hang out with them, I will, no matter how much I am annoyed by them. The problem with this, identified by my therapist, is that I am not making myself happy by doing this, and in fact, whenever I have contact with said people I become very negative towards myself and feel even more annoyed afterwards. I'd like two people in particular to stop their unintentionally annoying, clingy behaviors but I don't want them to get upset or hurt their feelings.

I worry about them getting upset or angry because both are involved with agencies I would possibly like to work with in the future and I do not want to possibly tarnish my reputation among the people at these agencies. I am worried that they might tell other people there that I am mean, deceitful, or unaccepting.

There is guy with AS I have known for a few years who is a genuinely nice guy, but he is someone I'd like to keep as a friendly acquaintance. He is not someone I consider myself close to or someone that I enjoy hanging out with. I have hung out with him in the past because he seemed nice, but I've never really enjoyed being around him. However, he considers me a close friend and asks me to hang out every few months, but I do not want to hang out with him at all. The last time we saw each other was in the fall, and a few weeks ago, he has texted me 2-3 times to hang out. I did not respond, hoping he'd figure I was busy. He clearly did not get the message as he sent me an email yesterday (':wall:'). UGHHHH!

I am trying to make him realize that I want to keep him as a friendly acquaintance without hurting his feelings. How do I do this?

Another girl I know likes to talk to and message me a lot because she enjoys the messages I give as an ASD speaker/awareness promoter and these resonate with her own personal values. I'm not interested in being anything more than an acquaintances, but she texts me frequently and leaves many comments on my (limited) social media profiles, which are behaviors expected between close friends but not acquaintances (what we are). I am trying to figure out a way to explain my uncomfortableness with her behaviors without hurting her feelings. How do I do so?

I will be talking with my therapist tomorrow about this but any other advice would be great :)



Niall
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29 Jan 2014, 9:59 pm

Congratulations on learning social skills adequate to pass as NT.

Most Aspies do not understand these social boundaries on the unconscious level that you apparently do. Very few understand the boundary between acquaintance and friend (I no longer use the latter word to describe anyone I know because I don't understand what it means). Someone not answering messages might mean they don't want to talk to you, that they are busy or sick, or that a message has become lost in the electronic ether. As far as I can make out, most NTs have a way of miraculously working out what the case it. Most Aspies just won't have a clue, and it gets many of us (me included, to the point of self-hatred) into no end of trouble.

To an Aspie, not wanting to hang out with someone is NOT the same as being busy. Being busy means you might want to hang out at a later date. Using busy as code for not wanting to associate is the kind of deceit that leaves many Aspies confused, and a good many accusing NTs of social lying.

If you hang out with an Aspie and then suddenly stop, this will often be taken as a mixed, if not confusing, message, and we are not good at those. If you are annoyed with socially incompetent Aspies, then perhaps hanging out with them through pity helps nobody in the long run.

This is part of what is meant by "social deficits".

There is no simple way to handle this, but a clear, spoken boundary is helpful. Try to be gentle, because your Aspie is often easily hurt and oversensitive to rejection, not to mention highly prone to social anxiety. If some of the NTs who have been in my life had done this (without lying one day and then metaphorically kicking me in the head a week later) it would have prevented a whole world of hurt. It's left me scared to pick up the phone or answer the door, never mind try to talk to anyone new. I know at least one other Aspie in a similar position, and I'm aware of several others on WP.



Last edited by Niall on 29 Jan 2014, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Waterfalls
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29 Jan 2014, 10:01 pm

I don't like to make people angry or upset, either. And sometimes it can be hard to judge how to go against someone's wishes without coming on too strong and too negative.

If it might be possible to focus less on what you don't like about these people, and more on what you want or need to be doing that is more valuable or necessary to you, maybe that would suit who you are better than struggling to be good at saying no, which isn't something you enjoy doing anyway.

And if you want to say no more, since with these people, you hope to avoid negative feelings that could interfere with future work, maybe you would be better off practicing and learning how to say no somewhere else.

If the man wants to date you, you could drop hints about dating other people, that might help.



Niall
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29 Jan 2014, 10:12 pm

I recommend being very careful about hints around Aspies, although the phrase "my boyfriend" is pretty well universally understood. I, like many Aspies, am lousy at social hints. This one might be okay, but I recommend avoiding them otherwise.



Sethno
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29 Jan 2014, 10:16 pm

Simple suggestion-

Tact.

Someone you're not comfortable with asks you to hang out with them? Say you've got to be elsewhere, or say "I've got to check my planner/schedule/whatever. If I can, I'll get back to you."

You DO have to be elsewhere, because being with them will damage you to some extent, and you have the right to protect yourself.

Check your planner? Fine. DO IT once you say you have to.

Then, whether there's anything scheduled or not, you already know you can't handle the situation, so you don't get back to them, because you CAN'T spend time with them.

Avoid hurting anyone...

Including YOU. (You're the only YOU that YOU have. A friend once told me "Sometimes you have the right to be selfish.")


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btbnnyr
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29 Jan 2014, 10:25 pm

I tend to ignore people I don't want to be around. The other people around me also ignore people they don't want to be around.


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marshall
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29 Jan 2014, 10:58 pm

I had that issue in the past. It's not that I didn't want to hang out with him at all. The issue was he lived a ways away from me, like 30-40 minutes by car. He wanted me to stay around at his place watching movies past midnight, and then drive home. He didn't have a car. He also asked too many questions and made me uncomfortable at times. It just got to be too much so I stopped returning his calls. It made me feel so guilty.



Waterfalls
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29 Jan 2014, 11:03 pm

True, Niall, about hints being problematic. I'm trying to practice not overthinking everything I say or write as this has been overwhelming me.

What I meant was I wondered if the man was interested romantically, if maybe that was why he wanted to hang out. If so, the choices are to say one is not interested, or to say one is unavailable. Whichever way best suits the OP.

This seems like a very complicated issue to me. OP, you are saying the problem is you are too nice, but you are also saying you are involved in a lot of ASD related pursuits, yet feel more comfortable around NTs and that you are not making yourself happy being nice, and you want these two people to stop their annoying behavior. And I am left unsure why you would be involved in the ASD related pursuits and whether this may be setting you up for being unhappy.

People with ASD as Niall points out are easily confused and easily upset and likely to miss subtle social cues. Since right now, some of these behaviors in terms of people missing social cues are not making you happy, rather than swimming against the current so to speak and trying to make people who have trouble understanding social cues that are hard for you to be blunt about, change, maybe continuing the ASD pursuits, right now, is what sets you up to not be happy, rather than the two people specifically. I just think if you stay involved with ASD activities, you'll be involved with people who miss social cues. If this makes you unhappy, you may want to consider other activities.

And maybe I shouldn't say this, but I think likely people on the spectrum gravitate toward you because of who you are that is special and unique and capable and valuable. Not because you don't look like you are on the spectrum. I don't think, at least I hope, that not looking like you're on the spectrum does not make you seem better to people with ASD, as that would mean they are feeling very negatively about themselves.

I am not good at social things, so this may be bad advice. But I think you can say you want to keep a relationship professional, just work related. You can say you value a friendship and don't want romance. With no guarantee the other person will listen, but it's acceptable. What I do not think you can say without hard feelings, hurt, upset, anger, etc. is that you're willing to be acquaintances but not friends. I think that is hurtful and confusing. And I think the busy excuse can work, but only if if it is genuine. Not if what you mean is you don't like the person, at least not for what you want to see happen.



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29 Jan 2014, 11:06 pm

I don't know the situation, you do, but the way you describe it these people don't really sound clingy. It just sounds like they are approaching you in ways they think are okay. If you don't tell them, they don't know what is okay with you and what isn't, they are just guessing, or continuing to do what has already been established as a norm between you.

You don't have to talk to people or hang out with people if you don't enjoy it. I know it's easy to say, and not always easy to live by it. It makes me really nervous to say no to people if I think they will be offended or get angry about it. But it is better to do it sooner rather than later. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to draw a boundary, especially if they become accustomed to a certain habit or routine of interacting with you. The force of habit tends to last longer in people with ASDs.

Hints don't always work with NTs either, sometimes they misinterpret or they think you will change your mind. And I believe some people just don't care or don't think about whether you enjoy the interaction with them or not. What they think about is that they enjoy it a lot and they just assume you feel the same way. Sometimes what works is to talk about your own feelings, not in a rejecting kind of way but just say briefly how it affects you. You don't have to give a detailed explanation. You could say something like, "I get a lot of messages from people and it is hard to keep up with them all, and it is overwhelming so I really need to limit the number of messages I am getting from people. I hope you understand, I won't be able to respond to your messages anymore." Maybe not exactly in those words, I have no idea if this would fit the situation, this is just an example. I try to phrase things like that so it doesn't seem like it is anything personal about the other person, or make them feel like they did anything wrong.

Most people don't want to bother you if they realize they are actually bothering you. To the contrary it's quite embarrassing for someone to realize that has been the case. If you don't give them an answer they may not understand. If you are trying to give the hint that you are too busy, a person could hang on thinking that at some point in the future you won't be busy anymore. If you want to be acquaintances with someone, you could divert them from more personal methods of interaction to something less personal, but be specific. Like if you don't want emails or text messages from someone, but you still want to stay in contact some other way, then you could specify what that is and how often you will be able to respond that way.



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29 Jan 2014, 11:34 pm

Look into assertiveness training. Please. I think you really need it. There are tons of books in the library. Ask your therapist about it. Then you'll stop hurting people like that. Because believe it or not, what you're doing is more hurtful that just being clear and up-front from the get-go. I can pick up on your patterns and you sugarcoat too much... Of course people will cling because you are adept at telling them what they want to hear. Also, being covert increases clingy behaviour in people who cannot pick up social cues, and here is why: there is uncertainty, then they try to guess at what is really happening, so they will test it again and again to get a response. Think of operant conditioning and reinforcement schedules - if you give intermittent, random reinforcement (responses), then they will increase their demand. If you suddenly stop responding, there will be an extinction burst, and it might be a big one, where they will pester you non-stop. If you inform them that the reinforcement will for certain not happen, they should not try for it again. If you offer non-contingent reinforcement (e.g. only talking to them on certain occasions, or only contacting them at certain times), and they need to be aware of this schedule, then they will only try at these times. I came to look at your posts because I picked up on another behaviour pattern of yours today that showed your lack of assertiveness and here goes the perfect opportunity to tell you this.


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Last edited by MathGirl on 30 Jan 2014, 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Jan 2014, 12:42 am

I agree with the lack of assertiveness. The earlier you communicate to someone that you had a change of heart or mind about them, the better off everyone is.

I have found that NT's didn't like being lead on by me and I'm the diagnosed Aspie. I have a feeling that this probably isn't ASD related at all.


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30 Jan 2014, 1:10 am

This is all depressing me. It feels like I am reading about myself but after being online for so many years, I have learned to read hints like always busy and never answering their phone to mean they are not interested and don't want to talk to me and don't want me thanks to threads like this. Also I have a rule about if they do want to hang out with me or want to talk to me, they will contact me. If not, it means move on, they're not interested.


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30 Jan 2014, 1:24 am

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30 Jan 2014, 1:39 am

Because many people on the spectrum struggle with unwritten/unspoken social protocol, you have to be clear and straightforward with these people. As for hurting their feelings, I am not sure it is 100% unavoidable, though.


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30 Jan 2014, 1:53 am

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MathGirl
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30 Jan 2014, 2:18 am

Quote:
Do you think I the person mentioned above is you? It isn't you. The girl mentioned is someone else I know, who I met through Kerry's Place in Aurora. I think you may have met her once...her name starts with R. Hopefully this will clear things up. I consider you one of my friends and on an equal plane with me in many ways and I would never behave around you in that way.
Oh okay... that's a relief. Phew! I got so scared... I have my monthlies now and get extremely paranoid/anxious around this time of the month, but especially so on my first day (this is why I also will possibly not be sleeping for the entire night). I thought the above description matched me EXACTLY! I really apologize for this. It really freaked me out, though.

Please unquote my message, then, and I'll delete my original post. The first post I made in this thread is important, though; I added another piece to it.


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