How do I Deal with These Clingy ASD People?

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MathGirl
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30 Jan 2014, 2:18 am

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Do you think I the person mentioned above is you? It isn't you. The girl mentioned is someone else I know, who I met through Kerry's Place in Aurora. I think you may have met her once...her name starts with R. Hopefully this will clear things up. I consider you one of my friends and on an equal plane with me in many ways and I would never behave around you in that way.
Oh okay... that's a relief. Phew! I got so scared... I have my monthlies now and get extremely paranoid/anxious around this time of the month, but especially so on my first day (this is why I also will possibly not be sleeping for the entire night). I thought the above description matched me EXACTLY! I really apologize for this. It really freaked me out, though.

Please unquote my message, then, and I'll delete my original post. The first post I made in this thread is important, though; I added another piece to it.


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anneurysm
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30 Jan 2014, 2:41 am

MathGirl wrote:
Quote:
Do you think I the person mentioned above is you? It isn't you. The girl mentioned is someone else I know, who I met through Kerry's Place in Aurora. I think you may have met her once...her name starts with R. Hopefully this will clear things up. I consider you one of my friends and on an equal plane with me in many ways and I would never behave around you in that way.
Oh okay... that's a relief. Phew! I got so scared... I have my monthlies now and get extremely paranoid/anxious around this time of the month, but especially so on my first day (this is why I also will possibly not be sleeping for the entire night). I thought the above description matched me EXACTLY!

Please unquote my message, then, and I'll delete my original post. The first post I made in this thread is important, though. I apologize for this. It really freaked me out, though.


Not a problem: I will go back and erase the message. That scared me too and to be completely honest, I was very freaked out. I did, however, appreciate the advice you gave me in the first post though and it has given me lots to think about. I am wondering if you know of any therapies or techniques I can try that can help me with this because this has been something I've wanted to conquer for a LONG time.

To everyone else: you have given me quite a lot to think about. Thank you all.



MathGirl
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30 Jan 2014, 2:53 am

anneurysm wrote:
Not a problem: I will go back and erase the message. That scared me too and to be completely honest, I was very freaked out. I did, however, appreciate the advice you gave me in the first post though and it has given me lots to think about. I am wondering if you know of any therapies or techniques I can try that can help me with this because this has been something I've wanted to conquer for a LONG time.
Thanks! I hope you're always honest with me even when you don't say that you're being honest. :)

As for the strategies, I am actually studying a lot of these things in my Behaviour Modification course and I have a book for that course that has some useful, evidence-based strategies for increasing assertiveness. If you want it ASAP, just let me know when you're on campus and we can meet briefly and I'll just give it to you to work through. Feel free to text me if you want it sooner than next week. The strategies work quickly if you implement them well, it's great! I think it might also be helpful to ask your therapist about "assertiveness training". She might have some resources on it or might even help you carry it out.

I've posted something on your Facebook status, too. Please don't give up just yet.


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Sare
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30 Jan 2014, 3:20 am

If anyone is interested, this is an online (Australian) assertiveness course available for free. Enjoy! :)
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resourc ... Info_ID=51

Other resources on that site: http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm


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Niall
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30 Jan 2014, 5:57 am

League_Girl wrote:
This is all depressing me. It feels like I am reading about myself but after being online for so many years, I have learned to read hints like always busy and never answering their phone to mean they are not interested and don't want to talk to me and don't want me thanks to threads like this. Also I have a rule about if they do want to hang out with me or want to talk to me, they will contact me. If not, it means move on, they're not interested.


Yes. I agree, in general terms. I find that many NTs, at least the ones who do engage in social interaction with an Aspie, do so once, smile, are polite, and then cut you out. I suspect much of this has to do with what they call our "social deficits" - not being able to understand their body language and so on, or have trouble our intense focus on special interests (something I've tried to learn to ameliorate, but by no means adequately).

I have a three messages and drop it rule. I've discussed your problem (not because it's just your problem but because it's also one of mine - this was some time ago) with a couple of NTs, and apparently some but not all of them do have an odd attitude to contacting friends, allowing others to do all the work. It seems nonsensical to me - imagine what would happen if they all did that. Three messages, the last one asking if the other person is okay, allows for illness and missing messages.

I would see nothing wrong with two texts and an email over the course of a fortnight. This allows for someone losing their phone, or having no credit. If that's ignored, it's yet another NT who hates you for being socially incompetent, whether that is "boring", "clingy" or "creepy" (there is massive overlap between core characteristics of AS and what some (especially female) NTs creep-shame for, from poor eye contact and "weird speech patterns" onwards). This means you don't become too much of a pest. Decent NTs (there are some) will set clear boundaries. One I know tells me meeting up for coffee once every ten days or so is Appropriate. I last saw her last Wednesday, and won't suggest meeting up again until at least Sunday.

We are actually seeing this here. MathGirl thought she was being described. This indicates the OP was sending the same message to MathGirl as she was saying to R, but it meant two different things. How is R supposed to keep things straight if the same behaviour from MathGirl is acceptable?

An Aspie male (particularly, but this may also apply to same-sex interest) who is romantically interested (no idea if that is the case here) has another problem. Not only is the reciprocal interest of someone else often a matter of guesswork, but some NTs have this bizarre, destructive custom of "playing hard to get". IMV, someone playing grubby mind games like this isn't worth your time, but these NTs see it as getting the male to prove his interest. There is a really good feminist analysis on why "playing hard to get" is a bad idea: http://feminspire.com/why-i-never-play-hard-to-get/ To me, no means no, even if it might mean maybe coming from some NT females. I'm sure, however, that there are Aspie males who have a particularly hard time with this one.

This comes back to what I said above. Clear boundaries good. Hints bad.



Waterfalls
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30 Jan 2014, 6:28 am

I figured out how to say what I wanted to. Sorry it took so long and was awkward. A therapist hearing someone with ASD ask "how do I deal with clingy/annoying ASD people" would probably be building up to asking you to think whether there are aspects of yourself you despise as you have ASD as well. Not saying if that would be true, just that I analyze and that is what I think is being built toward by a therapist who's talking this way.



Toy_Soldier
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30 Jan 2014, 7:08 am

Next time you see them, vaporize them with a Atomic disintegrator gun, but arrange their ashes so as to make it seem the butler did it. Hope that helps. :wink:



Asperbear
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30 Jan 2014, 7:25 am

If I were the clingy person (I was in the past to people) I would react positive to a very rational, "emotionless" explanation of the issue. And I would be destroyed by an emotional reaction.



Waterfalls
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30 Jan 2014, 8:00 am

I work with someone who decided I take up too much time. Decided I am too clingy. And that was devastating. Not that he was wrong, I can see where I was using up too much time. He was right in that way.

I've come to realize, with much help and explanation and confirmation by others who know the person, that this person disliked in me what he saw that was ASD and reminded him of himself. Made him unable to be straightforward and honest, so instead he tried to manage me. I'm still confused by what happened. But I know I can respect who people are that they respect. This was a problem with a particular person who was like a moth coming toward me like I was a libhtbulb, then deciding I took up too much time and treating me as bad. I finally told him I have been diagnosed with ASD and he has tried to avoid me ever since until periodically realizes I can live with that, then circles back to me, then pulls away when I show any reciprocation.

I am confused enough about dealing with people without getting sucked into another person's confusion and dislike for who they are. The kindest and best thing OP can do for herself and others is to consider some of the good advice being offered here and take responsibility for own feelings and behaviors, be clear, and not blame or label as difficult other people's reactions to confusing behavior on her part. Assertiveness is great, but it involves being clear and consistent about self, i do not feel it should be used as a tool to try to hammer others with.



bumble
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30 Jan 2014, 8:31 am

Sethno wrote:
Simple suggestion-

Tact.

Someone you're not comfortable with asks you to hang out with them? Say you've got to be elsewhere, or say "I've got to check my planner/schedule/whatever. If I can, I'll get back to you."

You DO have to be elsewhere, because being with them will damage you to some extent, and you have the right to protect yourself.

Check your planner? Fine. DO IT once you say you have to.

Then, whether there's anything scheduled or not, you already know you can't handle the situation, so you don't get back to them, because you CAN'T spend time with them.

Avoid hurting anyone...

Including YOU. (You're the only YOU that YOU have. A friend once told me "Sometimes you have the right to be selfish.")


I'd recommend not doing this as this leaves the person hanging unsure of what is going on and is confusing to them. It also makes it difficult for people like me to explain to people that I really am busy or that I actually do have things to do and my not wanting to chat that evening (or hang out) is absolutely nothing to do with my not liking them. See, the more times people do the above the more it becomes code for "I don't like you and don't want to hang out with you" which means people like me experience difficulties in trying to get others to understand you are not rejecting them and you really do have other things to get on with.

Personally I am terrible at keeping up communication at the best of times (I tend to forget emails, then remember, then get distracted and forget again, or I lose track of which ones I answer and which ones I didn't which I why I always recommend that if people want to chat to me and I have not replied to them just give me a bit of a nudge to remind me if I didn't answer their last email or something. Just don't yell at me) I don't need complications from examples like the above where people think I am avoiding them when I really did have piano practice tonight or I really was tired and just wanted to sit quietly and read a book etc.

Can you gently explain to them that you don't feel there is enough compatibility there for friendship. This way no one is to blame for the friendship not working out and it is most likely closest to the truth. If enough compatibility where there you probably wouldn't be asking the question you are.



Marky9
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30 Jan 2014, 10:45 am

I can relate to your situation from my personal experiences. Here is a rather random and partial bullet-list of things that I consider in such circumstances:

- I can only help others after I first take care of myself, including my need for alone time.

- In my time management, scheduling and guarding my alone time is vital. So is also limiting the time I spend with people who drain my energy.

- In lifeguard training, one of the first things taught is that a drowning person will, out of fear and desperation, also drown me if I am not careful.

- In declining invitations, I need only say what is 1) true, and 2) necessary. I try to avoid feeling a compulsion to explain, justify, or seek others' approval for my decisions. The phrase "I have other plans" truthfully and sufficiently describes my alone time, and also my need to not be around some other person(s).

- It is inevitable that, despite my doing my best, some people are going to be annoyed at my boundary settings. Beyond making all the reasonable attempts I can to be kind, I am ultimately not responsible for others' emotions.

This is challenging territory to navigate. Some things that have helped me is doing a lot of reading about assertiveness training and codependence. Best wishes on finding what works best for you!


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Ashariel
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30 Jan 2014, 11:30 am

I guess the way I see it is that they have a life lesson to learn (regarding boundaries) – but their personal development is ultimately their responsibility, not yours.

Sometimes there is no "nice" way to tell someone to back off. Yes, you could try to be gentle but direct, and help them to learn about boundaries. But if you don't feel comfortable with that, I don't think you're obligated to do so. I think it's okay to give them the socially-accepted, politely vague response that an NT would understand, but after that just ignore their messages.

And I say this as someone who has been ignored all my life, in such a fashion. It confused the heck out of me, why people seem friendly to me once or twice, but then – poof, I never hear back from them again. Even though it's obvious they're still active on social sites, and talking to other people on a daily basis.

It was a hard lesson to learn – that I'm simply not good at interacting with people, for reasons I utterly do not understand. But eventually I put all the clues together, and figured it out, and stopped trying to engage people on a personal level. And I honestly don't blame all the people who ignored me all those years, for not being 'honest' with me. I understand they were in a no-win situation, and that it wasn't their job to educate me in social skills.



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30 Jan 2014, 11:38 am

Ashariel

I agree with every word you write, but socially excluding a part of the population as a result of a neurological atypicality can't be morally right either, any more than it's right to marginalise people on the grounds of how melanistic their skin happens to be, or whether or not they can see, or their psychological atypicality, or what reproductive organs they have, or who they are sexually attracted to, or any of the dozens of other intersecting reasons why some people are marginalised by our grubby respective societies.

No, I do not have a solution to that problem. I wish I did.



robehickman
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30 Jan 2014, 12:38 pm

Consider why they are behaving like that. Perhaps you are the only person who responds to them. Help them find wider contacts.



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30 Jan 2014, 1:25 pm

How do you deal with a clingy NT, though?


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30 Jan 2014, 4:20 pm

clingy people are difficult to deal with without hurting their feelings, and I sympathize with that.

BUT...Why do you prefer friendships with NTs'? I mean, being autistic, you understand other autisitcs. We, in general are less pretentious than NTs', less shallow, less lemming like, more loyal, more honest, etc.? I guess I understand if you are,for instance, an extroverted Autist. you would be much more likely to be able to find other extroverted NTs' than you would extroverted autistics. If that is not the reason, I'm confused and a bit disturbed why you would prefer the company of NTs' to your own people.[ or possibly I misunderstood your post, in which case I apologize]