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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:51 pm

When I think about it, if gay guys ogle me, fine, I could care less. But if one tells me I have no choice but to be ogled, it kind of makes the whole thing an insult and disrespect.

I'm fine with showers the way they are, but don't act like providing cubicles does anything but provide privacy.


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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:54 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Your policy would perpetuate those ideas which I find ridiculous, not to mention repugnant.


That you shouldn't show your private parts to strangers? Yeah, it is sooo repungant.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:54 pm

appletheclown wrote:
It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.


Rather than breaking down your chain of alleged logic into smaller steps, you instead make another leap.

appletheclown wrote:
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


jrjones9933 wrote:
except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.



appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:56 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.


Rather than breaking down your chain of alleged logic into smaller steps, you instead make another leap.

appletheclown wrote:
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


jrjones9933 wrote:
except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


I AM NOT THEY. Obviously you don't understand that. I'm leaving this discussion.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 4:01 pm

appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Your policy would perpetuate those ideas which I find ridiculous, not to mention repugnant.


That you shouldn't show your private parts to strangers? Yeah, it is sooo repungant.


You have no idea that a world exists beyond the limits of your attitudes, evidently. Now that I think of it, in many of your posts you take it for granted that you already know the absolute truth, and that all right-thinking people feel the same way that you do.

If I continue this debate, I'll have to keep that in mind and give up on having an impact on your thinking. Instead, let's consider it a demonstration for the benefit of onlookers. Your mischaracterizations of my statements will only help your case with people who inflexibly share your views. To me and other logically-oriented people, they only serve as evidence of your ignorance of logical operations.



jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 4:03 pm

appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.


Rather than breaking down your chain of alleged logic into smaller steps, you instead make another leap.

appletheclown wrote:
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


jrjones9933 wrote:
except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


I AM NOT THEY. Obviously you don't understand that. I'm leaving this discussion.


Didn't we establish agreement about the wrongness of ogling on the last page? You nonetheless persist in considering the behavior inevitable, as far as I can tell.



appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 4:06 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Your policy would perpetuate those ideas which I find ridiculous, not to mention repugnant.


That you shouldn't show your private parts to strangers? Yeah, it is sooo repungant.


You have no idea that a world exists beyond the limits of your attitudes, evidently. Now that I think of it, in many of your posts you take it for granted that you already know the absolute truth, and that all right-thinking people feel the same way that you do.

If I continue this debate, I'll have to keep that in mind and give up on having an impact on your thinking. Instead, let's consider it a demonstration for the benefit of onlookers. Your mischaracterizations of my statements will only help your case with people who inflexibly share your views. To me and other logically-oriented people, they only serve as evidence of your ignorance of logical operations.


Well fine. How would me wanting a shower cubicle affect anyone else in any way shape or form?

Do you think I should have to shower naked with everyone else?


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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 4:08 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Didn't we establish agreement about the wrongness of ogling on the last page? You nonetheless persist in considering the behavior inevitable, as far as I can tell.

No, because you decided to come up with a way my idea wasn't helpful. It seemed you were deliberately doing it as well.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 4:19 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
But to some people privacy is just natural.I don't care if there is a man in the next stall by me,I just want my own space.


Natural in and of itself and not as a natural response to the aforementioned bad actors?

I think natural in and of itself - it's the same with whatever gender for me.


Misslizard wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
(same question as above)

When I was little I didn't like playing in the front yard because people on the street could see me.For me privacy is natural.I understand that others enjoy nudity,that's fine.


Then when I rule the world, I'll provide a couple of separate stalls for people who by their nature feel the way you do. I don't need to convince everyone, but I would like to destigmatize nudity and sexuality in the interests of future people who would otherwise have the stigmatization of their bodies forced upon them as I had it forced upon me.



Ann2011
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04 Apr 2014, 5:07 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
[Then when I rule the world, I'll provide a couple of separate stalls for people who by their nature feel the way you do. I don't need to convince everyone, but I would like to destigmatize nudity and sexuality in the interests of future people who would otherwise have the stigmatization of their bodies forced upon them as I had it forced upon me.

What kind of stigmatization are you talking about? For me, keeping my body private does not equal being ashamed of it. I'm quite happy to show it to people I feel comfortable with.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 5:13 pm

You weren't socialized to hide your body, then?



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04 Apr 2014, 5:20 pm

appletheclown wrote:
Fogman wrote:
All this is, is Rush Limbaugh doing what he does best. --Being a demagogue.

Under his idea, what would be the recourse if one of the guys in the 'gay shower' was being sexually harassed by another? --None at all, because with gay people such behavior is to be expected.


Under this idea, what would be the recourse if one of the women in the co-ed shower was being sexually harassed by a man? --None at all, because with straight people such
behavior is to be expected.


Exactly, that's what is f***ed up about it. People are held to a standard of behavior where sexual harassment under any circumstaces is wrong. Gay people included.


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Ann2011
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04 Apr 2014, 5:22 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
You weren't socialized to hide your body, then?

The opposite. My parents were hippies - I ran around naked for the first four years of my life. When I got to a certain age, though, it just didn't feel right. With girls or boys.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 5:33 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
You weren't socialized to hide your body, then?

The opposite. My parents were hippies - I ran around naked for the first four years of my life. When I got to a certain age, though, it just didn't feel right. With girls or boys.

My parents have a pathological aversion to sex, and they equate nudity with sex. Since they consider that the morally correct way to think, they made every effort to force me into that way of thinking. From what I see in American society, and in many other cultures, their way of thinking (the stigmatization I mentioned) predominates and I find it utterly revolting.



Ann2011
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04 Apr 2014, 5:53 pm

I think appreciation of beauty and the human form is valuable:

Image

And this is probably more closely related to sex.

But my aversion is not purely sexual.


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Stannis
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05 Apr 2014, 1:20 am

Ann2011 wrote:
I think appreciation of beauty and the human form is valuable:

Image

And this is probably more closely related to sex.

But my aversion is not purely sexual.


I don't know whether everyone knows this, but when viewed at face-level, you can tell that his gaze is upwards, and his expression is fearful. He is actually in a battle stance, which isn't clear from the ground. I did not learn this until recently (cracked.com), because the statue is normally photographed from ground level.

Image