Can ASD undiagnosed into adulthood become good manipulators?

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Not in an all the time fashion, but out of necessity, as a form of survival in the NT realm and only when need be.

I don't think it's likely.

One would need a strong social understanding to have the skills needed to manipulate others.

I would say "yes" as people with logic have an advantage to becoming a skilled manipulator when need be.

What if it was mostly with other "broken people" that were easier to figure out? For example, befriending a fellow aspie in hopes it may bring career advancement. That level of manipulation; not the mean manipulation that brings joy to sociopaths.

I don't believe so. They may manipulate, but will not do it well. IMO.

However, this person could act in ways that are intended to achieve a goal and others might feel compelled to go along. And might feel manipulated. I think being a good manipulator requires a high degree of social understanding and is nuanced and intentional.

Someone with ASD having a meltdown is not choosing to be manipulative, but wants what they want. Others may understandably feel manipulated. But real manipulation is intentional and controlled. Someone having a meltdown doesn't have control, people may validly feel manipulated, but the person didn't set out to make others give them their way in the same way that the word manipulate implies.

A lot of feeling manipulated can occur, and the person with ASD may certainly be manipulative at times. But if people with ASD were good at it, we'd I think be a much happier bunch of people.

I would say that being autistic does not mean being logical. Often I see extremely flawed logic being asserted as "logical" here. Autistic people do not strike me as being particularly more logical than NTs. Attributions to logic seem to be based as much on alexithymia and the perception that logic and emotion are opposed poles in terms of thinking, which they are not.

It's actually frustrating because sometimes people will retreat to assertions that their argument is logical rather than presenting an actually logical defense of said article.

Another issue is garbage in, garbage out. You can have flawless logic but still base it on false premises, resulting in false conclusions.

So autistic people are not logical, not inherently so. Many of us may like the idea of logic, but most seem to have limited understanding of what it is. Just like NTs.

I think regardless of whether a person was easy or hard to manipulate...it could still be done. However, it does make sense that if a person was not as socially aware...they might tend to be more easily manipulated if they did not see it coming.

Let me give you an example. I know 3 diagnosed male Aspies in my life. One is a cousin, one a friend, and one works in my area/field. I used to really like the latter mentioned one...but lately he has been pissin' me off. He has become paranoid and angry with me over ideas and perceived/imagined wrongs. Could I have taken advantage of him if I had wanted to advance myself in my career? Probably. But if the question was ...would I? Then the answer would be...no. It probably boils down to the type of person more than anything. Some people will step on others to get to the top, and some won't.

Most people with AS are undiagnosed ever. All aspies born anywhere on the planet ,outside of the country of Austria, prior to 1973 were either never diagnosed, or not diagnosed until adulthood.

All autism people are famously unable to manipulate people.

And being diagnosed, or not, does not effect your ability to manipulate people.

So thinking that 'being undiagnosed until adulthood' makes you better able to manipulate people is three kinds of nonsensical.

Autistic people are capable of being manipulative - the tendency is likely to be very bad at it:

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/mani ... 15957.html

I don't think an autistic person could never become a good manipulator, though. I just wouldn't expect it very frequently.

Manipulative thinking takes social emotional understanding.. I don't think it has anything to do with logic.

Ok so what constitutes a behavior as manipulative? Maybe manipulation was a bad choice of words.

I'm in 100% concurrence with Verdandi.

Rational logic is a way of relating to the world. For some of us, it's all we've got, no matter how flawed our logic may at times be.
I can't manipulate, it's not my way of thinking, it's a foreign way of thinking.
It only occurs to me to talk things out rationally and make logical arguments, even though it is often hard to express those logical arguments. What can seem so logical in my mind can evaporate into nothing when I try to explain it.

Edit: Manipulation is not logical or rational.

Haha YES, but it depends. I think these are the minority. My mother is certainly manipulative when it comes to getting attention about her illnesses, and setting others against me for not being sympathetic when she moans several times a day about the same pains. To the rest of the world, she is a suffering martyr and I am selfish and unfeeling (the last is true, the first is false).

Manipulation doesn't necessary come with social skills. I generally have better manners in public than my mother but I am unable to manipulate anyone. Ditto for my dad, who is a well-liked Aspie (paradoxically) who can't manipulate others either.

There's an irony of sorts in that your logic here itself is based on a false premise. I don't believe most aspies see logic and emotion as polar opposites. Rather, they see themselves as slightly more logical, or perhaps see NTs as slightly more emotional, but not that either logic or emotion is lacking in value or that neither is present in all humans.

Of course, whenever someone mentions this, you immediately jump on the "Oh, you think you're Mr. Spock. We NEED emotions!" bandwagon. Therefore, it's you who has the hang-up of logic vs. emotion as polar opposites, and you misinterpret any call to logic as someone being on the "logic only" side of the coin, and you represent the "emotional" side of the coin, when in reality, it's not about sides. That's your personal hang-up in life, for whatever reason.

Logic is the default mode if you are socially disabled.