Can't think of a good title for this. Please girls only.

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If nice isn't enough, than what is? From what I understand being nice and caring doesn't really cut it. So, I ask again, if nice isn't what turns you on, what exactly are we missing?

And..

What is a good balance of kindness and toughness? How to get that mix just right? I know that you as a gender like strength, confidence and just the ability to stand up for yourself. But how do we mix the two so we don't look like an as*hole but we also don't look weak?

It's really hard to answer that question.
A guy should be nice but not passive...
But it's really hard to draw the line because it's different for every girl

Different women look for different personalities, looks, etc. You are not "missing anything", you just have to meet women who are looking for someone like you. There's no secret trait, skill or possession that is going to win over every woman.

The reason I'm asking is because I was hanging out with a couple friends the other day, one of them said, "I think it's exciting when my boyfriend's mean to people". The other one said "Ikr?". I was really pissed at that because liking it when someone is mean is just infuriating to me and it just seemed so heartless. Later I posted this on another forum and this one chick was like, "they probably like the aggression, which is good because it shows you're not a pushover". When I asked what that meant she just said, "Some guys have that balance and it's just sexy".

I see you are 16. Girls that age don't always know what they want.

Regrettably I told this to a boy who asked a similar question to me when I was about that age,

"High school girls like bad boys. Later, they will marry the nice boys."



I still think that's accurate.

(I ended up marrying that boy.)

Sorry, blondeness kicking in here. You told him what?

* sigh * If you look at a description of a "Nice guy," you'll realize that the guy in question is not actually being nice. Actual niceness can be quite attractive. Manipulation, resentment, whining and passive-aggressive rage, however, are not nice. Neither is the inability to have your own opinion or disagree with women.

A lot of people who think they're being nice are merely polite. There is a difference.

There is no single formula what for getting the girls. Each individual girl will have things she does or does not like. However, a good general guide line is to be both nice and polite, and to try not to spend a lot of time worrying about the whole thing.

Imagine you meet a girl.

She doesn't have any interests, passions, or pastimes, and therefore nothing that's uniquely "her." She doesn't have anything in common with you that makes you feel understood or like you're talking to a kindred spirit. She doesn't really make you laugh, or make you feel funny yourself. She's not particularly interested in you, nor is she particularly willing to open up to you. She's of average intelligence and doesn't excel or have ambition in any area. She's not disinterested in the world, but also has no curiosity. She's of average appearance and dresses plain with no distinctive style or preferences. She's neither particularly tame, nor particularly willing to buck norms. She doesn't have any opinions about music, film, literature, politics, morality, society, or culture except that she does or doesn't like it. She doesn't complement you or broaden your horizons, but also doesn't clash or argue with you.

But she's nice.

How interested are you compared to other women out there, the bookworms, the scientists, the activists, the sweethearts, the tomboys, the animal lovers, the artists, the intellectuals, the nonconformists, the dreamers, the cynics, the fashionistas, and all the others - assuming some of them are nice, too?

In the past, I had a friend try to set me up with someone we both knew because he was a good guy. I said…

1) He’s irreverent and can’t take serious topics seriously, which irritates me.
2) I have nothing in common with him.

So, being a nice, gentle, or kind person can still have faults and a person can be lacking in more important areas. It’s not a catch-all for being a catch.

There's a pretty thick line between someone who's strong and someone who's an as*hole. Someone strong stands up for themselves when confronted or wronged, doesn't buckle under pressure, and does what's difficult when necessary or right. An as*hole picks on, troubles, and takes advantage of others.

Tastes vary, though. Please all, and you will please none. A better question might be, do you want a woman who thinks picking on others is fun and exciting?

He was upset because the girls in our small group of friends frequently dated the boys who would steal things from our hair, take our belongings, tie us to things, etc. He didn't do those things because he thought it was mean. He wanted to know why girls would find these other boys more attractive than him.

I cannot explain why, though I assume it is at least partially due to the desire to heal daddy issues ("if I can take a boy who is mean and have them like me, than perhaps I am likable after all"), but more immature girls tend to like "bad boys". If they mature, when they are getting more serious about finding a mate, they will not want a "bad boy" anymore, they will want a nice one.

My husband likes to tell our son or other boys to "never give up" because apparently he liked me for 7 years before we dated.

I've been analyizing people.

As much as most people wouldn't admit it, other people can pick up vibes. When guy gives of a vibe of "I don't care if you want to know me or not", it makes him more of a catch.

You can't just pretend you don't care. You have to actually not care about whether a girl likes you or not.

That's all I can think of, and one of the few differences between men who want me to like them, and men who have happy sociable lives and don't need me. As in: "Oh you like me? Ok" but "ok, whatever" if you don't.

The reason why I tell people to frankly get a life, is because if you have a life, you WON'T care.

No, in fact when my friend said that I was so disgusted I wanted to re-arrange her face.

Edit: Terrible sorry, I missed the part where it said girls only please, I apologize for my post here.

Last edited by sly279 on 28 Feb 2014, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sly279: I am referring to the fact that a lot of men who describe themselves as nice will go on to describe themselves as committing acts of aggression, cattiness, getting angry over unrealistic expectations, being incredibly manipulative, are resentful over things which women as people don't have any control over, and otherwise display incredibly nasty behavior. But as far as they're concerned, they're "nice guys" because they tend to be polite (ie open doors for people, etc).

Things what are not nice and I've seen fairly regularly in discussions:

Expecting women to read your mind and getting angry when they don't

Expecting that you are owed sex, a relationship or women's attention

Trying to trick women into liking you/lying to women

Holding women to high standards of personal excellence without displaying any of your own

Expecting women to perform a lot of work to be attractive to you, as if it were their purpose in life

Expecting women to notice your efforts and reward you for them (for the record, no one notices other people's efforts on a regular basis, and women are people with lives and other s**t to do)

Expecting women to work hard to understand you, but doing no work to understand women

Referring to women as if they all had the same brain and were conspiring against you

Referring to women as if they were all aliens or hostile

Whining that you don't get sex or attention in the way you want it, if you pay for a meal/drinks/something

Expecting to be able to buy affection with gifts and not getting what you want, then claiming women are ungrateful because of it
____________________________________________________

Maybe someone can answer a question for me. In the last not-quite-a-year I've been registered here, I've seen dozens of conversations about the woes of nice guys and how mean ladies are, a lot of clueless and/or scary assertions about what society owes nice guys, and a sprinkling of conspiracy theories about women and dating.

Is it that no one's reading the advice I and others post on the subject?

I have trouble believing that the same guys who complain about mean American women and/or how no one gives them their dues are happy with their lives. I notice there's a core of men posting on roughly the same subject over and over, whether posting topics or responses.

Why aren't they taking any of the advice that gets posted?

a) because they are men
and
b) because they are autistic

you are welcome

A nice guy is a guy who has the ability to be mean or kick somebody's ass but doesn't do it because it's not the right thing to do at the time. However, when the need arises and it is the right thing to do, he will do it. A nice guy gives others the benefit of the doubt, but only up to a point. A nice guy would never hurt someone's feelings on purpose unless that person pushed him to it. A nice guy would bend over backwards to help a friend but would also give that same friend a kick in the pants when he needed it to help him out in the long run. A nice guy would rather talk it out than fight it out, and would even walk away from seriously mean words somebody said to him, but if you push him to far he will stop being so nice.

In other words, a nice guy is a guy who knows how to and can be a total douchebag but won't do it very often because he thinks it's wrong under most circumstances. A nice guy doesn't go out to show off what a badass he can be, and doesn't care if you think he is or isn't. A nice guy is more concerned with doing the right thing than winning.

It seems that on here, the word nice is used as a synonym for weak a lot of times. Being nice because you are weak physically or mentally or emotionally and you don't want to get hurt isn't the same as being nice because you want to be nice and it's the right thing to do. Nice is more than just acting polite.

sly279: I'll add something else, which is going to require you to take a systems approach to the problem. Don't think of this in terms of a woman you know--if you have any background in stats, you know that trends approached from the smallest group (a person or two) are not going to match the larger group (a society.) The effect is called Simpson's paradox, and you can find information about it here.

The exception is not ever the rule.

Here are a few things women are societally expected to do for men in the US, as drawn from a combination of national statistics and/or trends in research:

Accept that their looks are central to the way they are judged as people

Have to do the vast majority of the housework in a relationship

Accept that there are a range of intellectual and/or physical occupations that are difficult for them to get into because of a combination of beliefs about gender and women's capabilities

Accept that they are judged to be interpersonal failures if they choose to be single and/or not have children

Accept that whenever they exercise authority in an occupation, they will be judged poorly for it

Accept that if they are raped (frequency of ~27% of the US according to the FBI), the odds are against any conviction, and they will have their personal lives judged as a result of it

Accept that they are less likely to make a good salary when negotiating for a position, and that negotiating for a better salary often causes them problems

Accept that in order to reduce the severity of sexual harassment or objectification (and to deal with being harassed), many of us end up self-objectifying or engage in risky behaviors as a direct result of experiencing sexual harassment

In general, when we have discussions on the behavior of men and women, they happen inside a milleu and NOT as isolated incidences. What this means for the above is that the consequences of male and female behavior differ, based on the circumstances of the behavior and to a great degree whether or not someone is seen as acting 'right' for their gender.