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Dox47
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18 Mar 2014, 11:15 pm

So, I recently came across this article and it's follow up that perfectly exemplify a number of things I hate about progressives, feminists, and other constantly aggrieved groups, and thought I'd post it here and see if this kind of thing is actually representative, or if it's more isolated and simply seems more common because of the way it stands out on the internet. The article in question is from Salon and concerns belly dancing of all things, here's a sample:

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/why_i_c ... y_dancers/

Randa Jarrar wrote:
Women I have confronted about this have said, “But I have been dancing for 15 years! This is something I have built a huge community on.” These women are more interested in their investment in belly dancing than in questioning and examining how their appropriation of the art causes others harm. To them, I can only say, I’m sure there are people who have been unwittingly racist for 15 years. It’s not too late. Find another form of self-expression. Make sure you’re not appropriating someone else’s.

When I have argued, online and in person, with white women belly dancers, they have assured me that they learned to dance from Arab women and brown women. This is supposed to make the transaction OK. Instead, I point out that all this means is that it is perfectly all right with these teachers that their financial well-being is based on self-exploitation. As a follow-up, white belly dancers then focus on the sisterly and community aspect of belly dance. They claim that the true exploiter of belly dancing is Hollywood, and the Egyptian film industry, which helped take belly dancing out of women’s homes and placed it directly under the male gaze. Here, the argument white belly dancers try to make ignores the long history of white women’s appropriation of Eastern dancing and becomes that this, the learning and performance of belly dance, is not about race and appropriation, but about gender and resisting the patriarchy and how all of us belly dancing together is a giant middle finger to men and their male gaze-y ways.

But, here’s the thing. Arab women are not vessels for white women to pour themselves and lose themselves in; we are not bangles or eyeliner or tiny bells on hips. We are human beings. This dance form is originally ours, and does not exist so that white women can have a better sense of community; can gain a deeper sense of sisterhood with each other; can reclaim their bodies; can celebrate their sexualities; can perform for the female gaze. Just because a white woman doesn’t profit from her performance doesn’t mean she’s not appropriating a culture. And, ultimately, the question is this: Why does a white woman’s sisterhood, her self-reclamation, her celebration, have to happen on Arab women’s backs?


Here are some responses to it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... beethoven/
Eugene Volokh wrote:
Appropriation — the horror! People treating artistic genres as if they were great ideas that are part of the common stock of humanity, available for all humanity to use, rather than the exclusive property of some particular race or ethnic group. What atrocity will the culturally insensitive appropriators think of next? East Asian cellists? Swedish chess players? The Japanese putting on Shakespeare? Jews playing Christians’ Christian music, such as Mozart’s masses? Arriviste Jewish physicists using work done for centuries by Christians? Russian Jews writing about Anglo-American law? Indians writing computer programs, using languages and concepts pioneered by Americans and Europeans? Japanese companies selling the most delicious custard cream puffs? Shame, shame, shame.

But, wait: Maybe — and I know this is a radical thought — artists, whether high or low, should be able to work in whatever artistic fields they want to work in. Maybe they should even be able to work in those fields regardless of their skin color or the place from which their ancestors came.

Maybe telling people that they can’t work in some field because they have the wrong color or ancestry would be … rats, I don’t know what to call it. If only there were an adjective that could be used to mean “telling people that they mustn’t do something, because of their race or ethnic origin.”


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ng/284290/

And her response to the criticism:

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/i_still ... y_dancers/

So, is someone going to come forward and tell me that this is a straw progressive/feminist not representative of the majority, or will someone actually attempt to defend this morass of made up feminist words, self righteousness, and racism in progressive drag? I'd be particularly interested in LKL's take, as this is certainly in her wheelhouse and from a source I've criticized her for taking seriously before.


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Kraichgauer
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19 Mar 2014, 12:10 am

White women belly dancing is racist? Of all the stupid... :roll:


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19 Mar 2014, 4:29 am

I note the author has appropriated my language...

Also, she mentions Egpyt, forgetting that Egypt is not a monoculture, and the Arabs weren't the original inhabitants. Meaning, if belly dancing is "Egyptian", then there's already been a lot of "cultural appropriation".



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19 Mar 2014, 4:37 am

I miss the reasoning, so that I could understand it. There is much said about, that the bellydance trend would be damaging somehow arab woman, but I see no reason or description for that?

Actually I dont see the difference about people learning belly dancing, compared to people learning to dance Flamenco.

I´d wish the author of the posted article would have described, why she thinks there were negative aspects to it. I dont wanna denie her, that she will have reasons for her expressed feelings, but sadly she does not mention them. (An I really would not know that bellydancing was such a big thing in Hollywood films? O_o Around here its more something for older woman, simply because the movements being very gentle and soft, so you can do that as 40+ woman as well.)



Who_Am_I
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19 Mar 2014, 4:49 am

Wait, what?


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Janissy
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19 Mar 2014, 6:21 am

I won't defend it since I spent all of college (in the 80's) arguing against it. I was enmeshed pretty deep in the progressive left and appropriation was a common theme. I was deeply against it (against arguing that appropriation was a bad thing) because it seemed uncomfortably close to "purity" concept for me. I favor a "melting pot" approach to culture where everybody borrows liberally from everybody else. I felt and still feel that the idea of each culture and subculture being bound to its own forms and not straying outside them was a very damaging idea. It promotes a "circling the wagons" mentality and hampers creativity and cultural flow.

This idea isn't specifically feminist. It flows through the progressive left. However on my campus it was a specific rift between the feminist community and the trans community (all 6 or so of them). The trans women were accused of appropriating womanhood. In general there was a lot of overlap between LGBT and Left but the entire concept of appropriation was a sore point.

I was delighted when the 90's and 2000's cultural changes (brought by technology) made appropriation seem to be a moot point. When sampling first started in music, the concept of appropriation was very hot. It was a huge legal and cultural drama. What snippet of music constituted an illegal copyright infringement? On the other hand, were bands who copied styles guilty of appropriation. Were white rockers who took riffs from blues music just as guilty as black rappers who took snips from rock recordings? I don't know how all that got resolved but it seems to be a moot point now. Mashups and samples seem to be the norm. Technology made it so very easy to copy and paste. The internet showed so many cultures and subcultures to each other that mixing and matching and taking and overwriting and mashing up and mixing up became the norm.

I thought accusing others of appropriation was dead by now. I honestly hadn't heard of it for about 15 years. Part of it was how I moved to the center and appropriation just isn't on the radar of middle aged democrats the way it is for the hard left. Part of it, I was really hoping, was that it faded as a concept because it seems a little silly to fuss about appropriation in a world where technology makes cultural mixing happen at warp speed. Maybe it never went away and I just lost sight of it. This article you linked is an ugly reminder it still exists as a concept but maybe not for much longer. It probably makes no conceptual sense to young people who were born into an internet wired and culturally mashed up world. I hope it goes away forever soon.



Last edited by Janissy on 19 Mar 2014, 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Mar 2014, 6:27 am

Why stop at belly dancing? Let's get serious:

I shouldn't use algebra, as that would be an appropriation of traditional Islamic mathematics. Nor can I borrow money from or deposit money in a bank (or work in a bank, for that matter), as that would be an appropriation of traditional Jewish commerce. No using fireworks, BTW, as that would be an appropriation of traditional Chinese celebrations. Playing chess is explicitly forbidden, as that would be an appropriation of traditional Indian games.

And whatever I do, I must never - *never* - listen to Eric Clapton.

Image

He is clearly appropriating traditional Black music...

Apparently, some wars are still being fought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars



The_Walrus
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19 Mar 2014, 7:08 am

This is an area where "popular feminism" seems to miss the point.

Sometimes, people sexualise other cultures in a caricatured manner, that almost mocks the mimicked culture. I can understand why Native Americans might get annoyed when Miss Big Damn Pop Star struts around in a skimpy, stereotypical Native American outfit, with feathers on her head. That's not cool.

Similarly, there are occasions when white people do what people from other cultures have been doing for years, and suddenly experience much more success despite not necessarily being better at it. See, as examples, Elvis Presley, Eminem, and Macklemore. In these situations, it's not that Elvis was doing anything wrong, it just reflects on society that a white guy enjoys commercial success that far outstrips that of his black contemporaries.

However, it is perfectly acceptable for people to enjoy aspects of other cultures. More than that, I think it is a very good thing.

It seems like you can't win, to some extent. I know Vampire Weekend have been accused of cultural appropriation because (particularly on their first album) they fuse world music with rock (which is now seen as "white"- never mind that half the band is composed of an Orthodox Jew and an Iranian), but Arcade Fire were long accused of "ignoring black music" (which was not only total BS at the time, but has been made to look silly by their rock-raga fusion album. And again, never mind that one of the members is Creole).



Janissy
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19 Mar 2014, 7:12 am

GGPViper wrote:
And whatever I do, I must never - *never* - listen to Eric Clapton.

Image

He is clearly appropriating traditional Black music...



I think the argument that he and other white rockers are doing that is the seminal argument that kicked off this whole thing decades ago.



Janissy
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19 Mar 2014, 7:14 am

The_Walrus wrote:
It seems like you can't win, to some extent. I know Vampire Weekend have been accused of cultural appropriation because (particularly on their first album) they fuse world music with rock (which is now seen as "white"- never mind that half the band is composed of an Orthodox Jew and an Iranian), but Arcade Fire were long accused of "ignoring black music" (which was not only total BS at the time, but has been made to look silly by their rock-raga fusion album. And again, never mind that one of the members is Creole).


Now I'm sad. :cry: I was hoping that the whole "that's appropriation" meme was a relic of my generation and that young people were immunized against it by the internet's cultural mashup. Maybe in a couple more generations.



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19 Mar 2014, 7:21 am

I ultimately disagree, though I think there's a there there.

Dox47 wrote:
So, is someone going to come forward and tell me that this is a straw progressive/feminist not representative of the majority,


If there's one thing progressives/leftists/feminists can do, it's have big, shouty, bitter fallings out over their differences, and yet still sincerely proclaim themselves progressive/leftist/feminist etc.

(ETA: And I'm very much all those three. But oh! the sectarianism)

Quote:
made up feminist words,


How's that?

Quote:
self righteousness


I suppose, even if you had a mirror to hand, you wouldn't see it for all the condensation from the huffing and puffing.

Quote:
and racism in progressive drag?


How's that?

GGPViper wrote:
And whatever I do, I must never - *never* - listen to Eric Clapton.


That's just good sense. Insipid, sexless stuff.



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19 Mar 2014, 7:43 am

“Political correctness is tyranny with manners.” – Charlton Heston

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On December 1, 2007, the minor league AAA baseball team Lehigh Valley IronPigs selected "PorkChop" as the name of their mascot from 7,300 submitted names. On December 2, 2007, the name was changed to Ferrous, derived from the chemical name for iron, because of complaints from the local Puerto Rican population, who alleged that "Pork Chop" was a racist term, despite the name being submitted by a young girl who lived in the Lehigh Valley area.

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The Washington Redskins name controversy involves the name and logo of the National Football League (NFL) franchise located in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. Numerous civil rights, educational, athletic, and academic organizations consider the use of Native American names and/or symbols by any sports teams to be a harmful form of ethnic stereotyping which should be eliminated

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March 13, 2014 - “House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says the word “Redskins” is a slur that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office should not protect.”

No mention of redskin peanuts?



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19 Mar 2014, 8:19 am

Jarrar needs to streamline her argument. Frankly I'm not clear on what she is trying to say. But the blending of cultures is natural and I think a good thing.


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kazma
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19 Mar 2014, 8:53 am

i think Political correctness has now gotten to the point now were its actually hurting the process for equity in society as it tends to lead to a lot of double standards



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19 Mar 2014, 9:09 am

Someone has to much time on her hands.
I always thought belly dancing was cool looking,I saw a woman fold a dollar bill with her stomach.


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19 Mar 2014, 9:09 am

Shrapnel wrote:
“Political correctness is tyranny with manners.” – Charlton Heston


Attempting to sneak in a defense of casual racism in a thread about some Tumblr Warrior getting her letter to the editor published? Stay classy.