What is flirting - and sexual attraction?

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AmbientRainbow
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21 Feb 2007, 11:37 pm

Really, I have read about it, heard people talk about it, and probably seen it in movies loads of times, but I have not a clue as to what constitutes flirting. In movies I have obviously missed it all. I have always paid particular notice to the dialogue and at the crucial points I've completely missed how the lovers got from Point A to Point M - I totally miss the 'hidden' dialogue in between, or I don't understand the answers the lovers give each other at all. it all becomes a truly hidden code somehow between A and M.

So, what is it, this flirting? Can someone give me a step by step guide for idiots please? (Ha! not that I've got anyone in mind on whom to practice! It's just that I'd really like to find out at last how to do it - maybe I've been doing it without knowing it seeing as I've had relationships since teenage! I'm still clueless as to how they happened though.)

PS sorry if this has been covered already.

And, while we're here, what consitutes sexual attraction? All the people I've been romantically involved with, I've just liked them very much as friends but can't say that I've ever really felt an immediate sexual turn on when I first met them or even later on. For me, it's that the good things about their character make me feel warm to them or comfortable with them to the extent of falling in love (or maybe mildly obsessed with them), the sexual stuff is a secondary thing - it's more that I feel 'Hmmm, I'd like to be physically and intellectually closer to you - I want our relationship to be exclusive, for us to be special to each other''. The most physical attraction I feel about anyone is say the way they move gracefully with confidence or that their hair is just the 'right' way or they pursue me (and seem to like me more than I like them) but I don't think these things alone make up the 'magic' sexual attraction that NTs go on about.



Tanz
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22 Feb 2007, 12:23 am

in my own experience, flirting has been all hit or miss. I was even good at it when I didn't know I was doing it. From what i can tell, it's pushing the envelope of what is considered personal space on someone, or treating them like you know them better than you actually do. For instance, if you stand closer to them than you normally would for someone who is not a friend, or touching (bad topic with this crowd, I know) or even something intellectually or verbally, like sharing a confidence with them about a stranger walking by, or even slipping an inuendo into a conversation that you normally wouldn't say to someone you aren't dating. In short, you act like you almost would if you were actually dating, brining it one step closer, and see how they react.
That's my 2 cents.


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Aspie_Chav
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22 Feb 2007, 2:18 am

Men – spotting the green light
“The most important flirting skill that I can teach a man is to spot green lights”,” The majority of the time, it is women who select their potential partners. As a man, it is your job to spot the women who are interested in you and then take action.”

I am sure that many with men especially aspies is that they simply do not spot when I woman is attracted. I think that this book will help even though this book is directed at English people.

http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-Fl ... F8&s=books



Gamester
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22 Feb 2007, 3:07 am

You're asking us for advice mate?

Natch.

But usually, (and yes I know yah be an Aspie mate) we have to search fer it on our own.


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22 Feb 2007, 4:17 am

Someone explained this to me about three years ago. Shortly after that, it happened to me very obviously and I did not realize it until after I had brushed the girl off several times. She was quite hot too. :?



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22 Feb 2007, 7:15 am

Tanz wrote:
in my own experience, flirting has been all hit or miss. I was even good at it when I didn't know I was doing it. From what i can tell, it's pushing the envelope of what is considered personal space on someone, or treating them like you know them better than you actually do. For instance, if you stand closer to them than you normally would for someone who is not a friend, or touching (bad topic with this crowd, I know) or even something intellectually or verbally, like sharing a confidence with them about a stranger walking by, or even slipping an inuendo into a conversation that you normally wouldn't say to someone you aren't dating. In short, you act like you almost would if you were actually dating, brining it one step closer, and see how they react.
That's my 2 cents.


"Pushing the envelope of what is considered personal space on someone" is a good definition, but it needs a bit of clarification. If I was to do that to another male, it would be considered intimidation. So, it requires that the person you are "pushing" is of the gender you are attracted to.



MrMark
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22 Feb 2007, 7:30 am

When a man talks to a woman for no other reason, it's flirting.


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jolly_magpie
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22 Feb 2007, 1:08 pm

The signals...the signals.....they have to be screamingly obvious to me and even THEN....

Once I was at a huge party with the wife and a few acquaintances. This one girl who was a bit drunk thought I was very attractive and started talking to me and showing lots of attention...I only found about it after the party! The wife was charmed and amused...it's been a running joke between us ever since.


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Tanz
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22 Feb 2007, 9:16 pm

lowfreq50 wrote:
"Pushing the envelope of what is considered personal space on someone" is a good definition, but it needs a bit of clarification. If I was to do that to another male, it would be considered intimidation. So, it requires that the person you are "pushing" is of the gender you are attracted to.


LOL, since the topic was flirting, it goes without saying that the target (in my case at least) is of the opposite gender. otherwise I would be trying to intimidate by getting into his space. Not likely with my 5'7" wiry frame, but might be worth the effort, LOL


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22 Feb 2007, 9:41 pm

Tanz,

I wouldn't know flirting if it hit me over the head. I'm the world's worst at it. I am so bad that someone else always has to pull me aside and tell me what's going on. I never get it. Now, if they stepped into my space, I would turn around and walk away (but that's just the Aspie in me). But flirting, nah. All kinds of guys talk to me because I work in IT, but most of them don't flirt with me. What usually happens is that the guys are the ones who step in, put a halt to it (I'm married, so not recognizing flirting is a problem), then take me aside and try to explain to me why it was flirting. I still don't get it. Here's a perfect example:


My employee (I was a manager at the time so this is really embarassing) and I used to travel together for work all the time. He had his own thing with me (basically stalkerish which I aslo don't get, but that's not a guy issue in the way it happens to me so OT). Anyway, he and I are standing in line to check into our hotel. This guy behind me starts talking to me. Blab blab blab and I'm just smiling and nodding because I don't get chit chat anyway and I'm trying to pretend I'm normal. Well, he starts telling me all about how he has this boat and what it's like and blah blah blah. By now, I'm thinking, shut up already. Then he steps too close and I go behind my employee, George and hide. (Are we getting the picture here of my flirting incompetence?) So, George turns and tells him, "You might as well forget it. She never gets it."

After we check in, we are on our way up to our rooms and he turns to me in the elevator and tries to explain that the guy was flirting and I should have known when he was talking about his boat. Huh? He tells me he was trying to see if I was interested in his boat so he could take it to the next step. Whatever. I never did get it.


It's much worse if my husband is with me. Then, it's a confrontation. He knows I'm stalker bait so he puts an immediate halt to any signs of interest from guys. It's all lost on me. I never even notice them until he gets in their faces.


As to sexual attraction, I don't know how to describe that. I have a definite physical type I like. So much so that it's that or forget it. But, I am always irresistably drawn to that type. It's the physical look and the personality. But, you could line up all my old boyfriends and my husband and they would all be alike. Same height, build, coloring, face shape and personality. Why that is, I can't say. I've never understood it myself.



caramel
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23 Feb 2007, 10:36 am

I think I might've written about this in another thread but there are many things that constitute flirting such as intiating contact through discussion, the sharing of knowledge about you, your background, and your interests, desiring to be in the object of your affections prescence. Theres also that nonverbal stuff like prolonged staring, smiling, perhaps physically touching someone- accidentally or intentionally etc., (but those are a lot of the more well-known signs). So lets see if i can give you the step by step (or as i know it to be in these romatic films):

A meets or bumps into M in some quirky way
A and M share a long lingering stare where either one looks away
<3 Love at first sight, of course
A and M generally lose touch all the while developing stronger feelings for the "stranger they just happened to meet"
A and M, on a chance meeting one day, somehow, meet each other again feeling that connection is still present- even after options of other could-be relationships present themselves
A and M end up spending the whole time in each others prescence consciously aware of this love feeling developing they maybe even spend the night together and one ducks out the next morning leaving the other sleeping
A and M get separated again somehow knowing they were meant to be but all the while steadily loving each other
In the climax of the movie A and M meet up again accidentally and make plans to stay together for all of eternity...

i've never really much believed in the luck of all THAT happening though, lol but i've noticed each movie seems to have a common idea of semi-unrequited love....I think thats why romantic films always gross so high is because a lot of times women (or maybe just loopy NT women) revel in the detail that comes with a love affair not just the love affair itself-- men revel in the concept of a love affair not the details but purely the concept.

I believe sexual attraction to be an immeadiate feeling. When i'm attracted to someone i automatically feel it (for lack of better wording, down there) and i find that looking at them and receiving looks back makes me feel hot (i do mean temperature-wise) and dizzy like somebody punched me in the face.

If they don't make you feel that way it can be something thats negligible but many people can't see being with someone who didn't find them terribly attractive and vice versa- No, looks don't matter and certainly don't constitute a good relationship but i find that for most its essentially linked. I know of how some aspies don't like touch- perhaps along those lines, if were talking sensory perception then maybe thats why you haven't had those types of feelings (i hope that made sense) maybe its a bit harder to feel those sensations and impulses because sexual attraction is so linked to physical touch-- when you crave the physical touch of another so deeply it brings on these feelings of intense sexual attraction so maybe there is no receptor for that within some aspies? I know physically when someone touches me, even on the arm, and i like them i can feel that heat radiate through my body for minutes after as if they were still touching me.

I enjoy communicating with people and feeling comfortable and warm with them on a certain level- but dually theres just this other layer of primal instinct that makes you lust for someone like that. I find with ex that being with him (he was my first boyfriend) provided many of the same feelings you have for your partners- comfort, warmth, affection etc., but there was just this underlying feeling of attraction that drew us closer to one another.

I so also agree with ZanneMarie...I'm always attracted to the same type of men- tall, dark expressive eyes, dark hair
without fail. I don't usually find myself going for anyone outside that type, but i certainly would if i liked and appreciated their personality. I honestly find that men who fit those characteristics usually are attracted to me as well- its a strange funny thing this attraction thing.

I hope what i've rambled on about helps!
Caramel



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23 Feb 2007, 10:59 am

That's exactly what I find Caramel. I also like tall, dark haired, dark eyed men with long noses and lanky to medium build. I have no idea what that is. They are usually extremely intese people as well, the type who are often impatient with others because they don't "get" things as quickly as they do. It's strange because they are always instantly into me as well. It's a funny thing, physical attraction. I come from hundreds of years of Germans with a few Irish thrown in. There is nothing culturally my type in what I like. I am never attracted by blonde, sandy or red-headed men and my family and early environment was full of that. Maybe I was just sick of it. Or, maybe some primal urge was telling me to expand the gene pool! :lol: If so, I guess my synapsis misfired halfway through and I only received what physical type to like and didn't get the part about mating culminating in procreation. :D My receptor must have shut down right about then. I guess it was fried by a power surge. Hmmm


Anyway, if a guy asked this, don't look at me for answers. My personality type is only 1-2% of the entire population and within that hardly any are female. You add in the Aspie stuff and I'm probably ~.026% of the female population. I'm the aberration, not the norm.



Tanz
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23 Feb 2007, 5:02 pm

so sorry, I totally misunderstood the basic thrust of your question. /bonk Tanz.
I was looking at it from the viewpoint of you wanting to flirt with others, not the other way around. That is totaly different.

I too, am clueless when someone of the opposite sex is flirting with me, unless they do it by-the-book from a movie or such. Apparently I have missed out on quite a few encounters by not recognizing them until much too late or having someone explain it to me later. I have picked up on a few clues here and there, but I spend too much time analyzing whether it was overfriendliness, flirting, or simply a slip of the tongue (or accidental contact) to take action and respond.
Some of the clues I have picked up on: when the girl at the pool wants me to put suntan lotion on her; when the one in the pool wants me to rub her feet; when she chooses to sit next to me when there are plenty of seats available; when she strikes up a conversation about anything other than the last class we just left (and sometimes then, too); generaly choosing to include me or be near me without any apparent reason.

As for guys flirting with you. I would say that happens more often than girls talking to me, but I would tend to think if a guy is talking about his stuff (like the boat) and not mentioning any female names (wives, girlfriends, children) then he is flirting, wanting to impress you with his stuff and letting you know it is available as an add-on if you choose him. I never try to impress girls with material possessions as I want them to like me and not just my stuff. Thus the "bling-free zone" around me. (yes, I know wealth is an indicator of a stable income and a good provider, which many women home in on, but I am paranoid about being used as it has happened to me in the past.) Again, a lot of flirting is eye contact and 'accidental' touches, both of which are aspie no no's to most of us (I am hypersensitive but not as much as some here, and in different ways - I continue to feel the touch for 15 mins to an hour, depending on how slight it was. If it was a guy touching me, I hate it and it burns, but if it was a nice girl then it still burns but it turns me on).

As for sexual attraction: While I am physically attracted to my small portion of the female world, what counts for more in my book is the look, the smile, and the attitude of the girl. In short, if she shows interest in me, and is moderately attractive looking, then I am sexually attracted to her until she says or does something to turn me off. I think men are more into the visual turnons than you ladies, but that's just a guess based on me and what I have read.

I have been in love too (twice so far) and had high school crushes (which felt the same way but weren't reciprocated). The alling in love is caused by chemicals affecting your brain and body, making it hard to think straight or breathe right; that's just animal instinct, but not neccessarily bad. I fell in love at first sight with my last girlfriend (one of these days I'll just name her and get it over with) but I don't know whether she felt that way about me, although she did remember me. She was working at a bookstore I went to occasionally, and several months later I ended up working there too, and she remebered me from before. We didn't start dating until several months after that, but I couldn't keep my eyes off of her. I make a horrible first impression, and she had to get to know me and respect my work ethic before I was comfortable enough to ask her out.


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23 Feb 2007, 8:11 pm

Tanz wrote:
so sorry, I totally misunderstood the basic thrust of your question. /bonk Tanz.
I was looking at it from the viewpoint of you wanting to flirt with others, not the other way around. That is totaly different.

I too, am clueless when someone of the opposite sex is flirting with me, unless they do it by-the-book from a movie or such. Apparently I have missed out on quite a few encounters by not recognizing them until much too late or having someone explain it to me later. I have picked up on a few clues here and there, but I spend too much time analyzing whether it was overfriendliness, flirting, or simply a slip of the tongue (or accidental contact) to take action and respond.
Some of the clues I have picked up on: when the girl at the pool wants me to put suntan lotion on her; when the one in the pool wants me to rub her feet; when she chooses to sit next to me when there are plenty of seats available; when she strikes up a conversation about anything other than the last class we just left (and sometimes then, too); generaly choosing to include me or be near me without any apparent reason.

As for guys flirting with you. I would say that happens more often than girls talking to me, but I would tend to think if a guy is talking about his stuff (like the boat) and not mentioning any female names (wives, girlfriends, children) then he is flirting, wanting to impress you with his stuff and letting you know it is available as an add-on if you choose him. I never try to impress girls with material possessions as I want them to like me and not just my stuff. Thus the "bling-free zone" around me. (yes, I know wealth is an indicator of a stable income and a good provider, which many women home in on, but I am paranoid about being used as it has happened to me in the past.) Again, a lot of flirting is eye contact and 'accidental' touches, both of which are aspie no no's to most of us (I am hypersensitive but not as much as some here, and in different ways - I continue to feel the touch for 15 mins to an hour, depending on how slight it was. If it was a guy touching me, I hate it and it burns, but if it was a nice girl then it still burns but it turns me on).

As for sexual attraction: While I am physically attracted to my small portion of the female world, what counts for more in my book is the look, the smile, and the attitude of the girl. In short, if she shows interest in me, and is moderately attractive looking, then I am sexually attracted to her until she says or does something to turn me off. I think men are more into the visual turnons than you ladies, but that's just a guess based on me and what I have read.

I have been in love too (twice so far) and had high school crushes (which felt the same way but weren't reciprocated). The alling in love is caused by chemicals affecting your brain and body, making it hard to think straight or breathe right; that's just animal instinct, but not neccessarily bad. I fell in love at first sight with my last girlfriend (one of these days I'll just name her and get it over with) but I don't know whether she felt that way about me, although she did remember me. She was working at a bookstore I went to occasionally, and several months later I ended up working there too, and she remebered me from before. We didn't start dating until several months after that, but I couldn't keep my eyes off of her. I make a horrible first impression, and she had to get to know me and respect my work ethic before I was comfortable enough to ask her out.


Hey, why are we surprised when we misunderstand each other? If we can't do it as Aspies, who can??? LOL No problem.


Hmmm Man, I am so terrible at this. I don't know if I've ever actually flirted. I don't think so. Do girls not like the stare? I would think that would show interest. Definitely women like if you observe things about them and then do something thoughtful to show you have. I wouldn't ever get it, but you can't go by me at all. (Hey! You got the boat and I didn't! I need instruction from you!) Anyway, women like to feel they, personally, are special to you. That happens when you notice something like she said she bought this vanilla candle and it smelled really nice. She'd like to get another one. Go get her one and give it to her. That shows you are very thoughtful and kind.

Remember things she says like people's names that she mentions (her siblings, her friends, her hated ex-boyfriend). That shows you listen to her. That is a HUGE thing to women.

Talk to her about your interests, but not in some protracted sense. Say, I am into this. What are you into? That shows that you trust her and you are interested to know what she likes.

Notice what she wears and compliment her on it. If it is a bright color, say, Oh that color really looks good on you. Of course, you always look good, but that color just makes your skin glow (or makes your eyes stand out).


Those are the ones I can think of that I hear women bring up often. We need Shale in here. She's a regular type girl and knows all this.



Sairbie
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23 Feb 2007, 9:08 pm

Eeee! Flirting! I was taught how to flirt by my best friend not too long ago. I'm pretty good when I try. One of the best tricks out there is to discuss something you both hate. Psychology Today had a relatively recent issue out that said people connect better through dislikes than through likes... It was by some ridiculous percentage, like a 30% difference or something. I haven't seen that magazine for a long time. I've found after trying both flirting casually and being blunter than a paddle that I do much better just asking guys out... But in a casual way. If you try my method, just ask a guy if he'd like to go get coffee. Works best if he seems bored in his current situation. This is the usual script.

"Hey ______, what're you up to?"
"Not much. What's up?"
"Not up to a whole lot myself. Wanna go get a coffee or something?"

The worst anyone'll ever say is "actually, I'm waiting for someone." or "I'm really not a coffee person." There's no truly cruel way to turn down coffee. It's coffee! That's why coffee is great!

For just flirting, just play into the other person as much as possible. If they say they're interested in something ask them why, ask them about their involvement, ask ask ask. If they make a comment that seems like a joke, laugh. That's flirting in a nutshell. Ask questions, respond to them as best you can interpret to do. :wink: Flirting isn't that tough, when you break it down like that. Just forget details, make it simple. We Aspies complicate things to death sometimes... Especially when it has to do with normates.



caramel
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23 Feb 2007, 9:35 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
That's exactly what I find Caramel. I also like tall, dark haired, dark eyed men with long noses and lanky to medium build. I have no idea what that is. They are usually extremely intese people as well, the type who are often impatient with others because they don't "get" things as quickly as they do. It's strange because they are always instantly into me as well. It's a funny thing, physical attraction. I come from hundreds of years of Germans with a few Irish thrown in. There is nothing culturally my type in what I like. I am never attracted by blonde, sandy or red-headed men and my family and early environment was full of that. Maybe I was just sick of it. Or, maybe some primal urge was telling me to expand the gene pool! :lol: If so, I guess my synapsis misfired halfway through and I only received what physical type to like and didn't get the part about mating culminating in procreation. :D My receptor must have shut down right about then. I guess it was fried by a power surge. Hmmm


Anyway, if a guy asked this, don't look at me for answers. My personality type is only 1-2% of the entire population and within that hardly any are female. You add in the Aspie stuff and I'm probably ~.026% of the female population. I'm the aberration, not the norm.

For lack of better wording men who fit this are so breathtaking... I also find myself liking men who are average in weight because i am also average but because i have large hips, thicker thighs, a smallish waist, and larger breasts and arms a lot of people consider me fat. i think i'm just way to curvy- the funny thing is a lot of is muscle...if i was taller i would have perfect proportions but because i'm not i appear a bit chunky... i also find that i like men with an exotic but plain look to them (lol best way to describe it, huh?) they are usually intense and very mysterious and shy. i find those good characteristcs- i also like the strength and intelligence of these type of men.

Physical attraction is a funny thing. For me its always been something that hits me on the head i never casually like someone- when i see that person for the first time it beats me into submission then i feel like i can't live without them by my side- its actually kind of crazy..i come from spanish, indian, and african american decent so theres nothing characteristic about the men i like- i like the opposites. i'm light myself but i love the way pale skin looks with my skin- im lighter but buttery in color i like how the skin contrasts...okay i think i've just gone on WAY too long about skin. goodness, this whole topic is certainly leaving me breathless! lol also Zanne i honestly don't believe i represent ANYONE in the population even being NT- i'm so eccentric in the way i think and feel and i constantly have people telling me i'm "strange' and "weird". funny because i do nothing but embrace it.