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sly279
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30 May 2014, 1:40 am

TallyMan wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
Love is not taken, no, but it IS demanded just as much as you demand water or food, because that is what your humanity requires for a good and worthwhile life.


You cannot "demand" love from another individual no more than you could go uninvited into their home and demand the food and water off their table.


I can demand it but I can't take it. I want it, but they're under no obligation to give it. But the point is a human demands it because it is very much needed. They're entitled to love because it was purchased with their humanity, and a human needs it in order to feel 'full' on his spiritual side.


I know what you are saying, but what you want/need isn't given freely. My advice (to young men in general on this forum) is simply to talk to women in all daily situations - maybe something relevant about the particular situation (at school, the workplace etc, the gym, the library etc). Learn how to initiate conversations; use open questions requiring more than yes/no replies, learn how to feel comfortable and relaxed in these situations. It may be difficult at first and you may get some awkward gaps of silence, but it gets easier and before you know it you'll be chatting away with women all the time with no expectations of anything more than just passing a little time... then something may click one day and you will find yourself on a date or simply going some place together - not a date as such, just going to a bookshop together or some other trivial errand. And so on. If the magic happens it happens. Then love will be offered to you... along with food and water at her home :lol:


I do that with women but there's this problem in that I will develop a crush on any single women, unless I find them unattractive, then the more time I spend the more it develops into love, but more likely one sided love. So I avoid female friends. not that I make any male friends either, I don't believe in make friends at work, far to risky. So I go to dating sites, I figure it best to find women who are seeking romantic relationship since that is where my mind will go. far reduces the likely hood of on sided love. most will decide i'm not for them and move on or it'll become a relationship. I don't seek friendship from a dating site, so we don't make a good match means move on. If I could get a emotion killing drug i'd take it and then I guess i could make a ton of single women friends, though i know in reality i wouldn't take it, people without emotions i fear would be more prone to "logic" driven violence, Emotions give us our humanity. that said if a drug could target the emotion of love alone, I'd be interested in learning more.



hale_bopp
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30 May 2014, 1:46 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
I know what you are saying, but what you want/need isn't given freely. My advice (to young men in general on this forum) is simply to talk to women in all daily situations - maybe something relevant about the particular situation (at school, the workplace etc, the gym, the library etc). Learn how to initiate conversations; use open questions requiring more than yes/no replies, learn how to feel comfortable and relaxed in these situations. It may be difficult at first and you may get some awkward gaps of silence, but it gets easier and before you know it you'll be chatting away with women all the time with no expectations of anything more than just passing a little time... then something may click one day and you will find yourself on a date or simply going some place together - not a date as such, just going to a bookshop together or some other trivial errand. And so on. If the magic happens it happens. Then love will be offered to you... along with food and water at her home :lol:

I, myself, have tried that, only to be ignored when I did. Even if I make small talk, nothing happens. It's as if I don't even exist.

Believe it or not, girls have come to me looking for love. I pretty much slammed the doors in their faces, because I don't want leeches sucking me dry. There was even a time when a really ugly, obese girl was stalking me over Facebook. She still does, via numerous accounts. I have come to the conclusion that it's pointless to even try. I have nothing to offer, even in the totality of existence. I have no purpose but to wait for death.


You're overweight yourself; I've seen your picture.


For some reason he seems to think he deserves better than what he can get and what he is.



onewithstrange
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30 May 2014, 2:51 am

It took me years to learn to not assign blame when things don't work out with a girl. She chose to reject me, sure, but it's not as if she could choose to be attracted to me. No one is to blame when this happens, not even myself. It doesn't matter how you behave around the girl you like or what specific actions you took to woo her, because your behavior is determined by the kind of person you are and if she doesn't like your kind, nothing you do will change her mind. After I realized all this, the sense of entitlement took care of itself.


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Last edited by onewithstrange on 30 May 2014, 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pabalebo
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30 May 2014, 2:54 am

Love is a human need just like food, water, air, shelter, etc... yes.

However, that doesn't entitle anyone to it. Simply being alive doesn't entitle you to any of the other basic needs either. You, or someone on you behalf, must work for all of those things in order to sustain your life. And it's the same with love. You have to work for it. And maybe you have to be a little bit lucky too, and be working the right way for it, and be looking in the right spot for it. And maybe you'll never fulfill this need... there are plenty of people in this world who don't have their other basic human needs fulfilled either. It sucks, but that's life, and the feeling that lacking something sucks does not entitle you to that thing which you are lacking.


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cannotthinkoff
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30 May 2014, 2:58 am

The basic entitlement you purchase with life is simple respect and human decency. And your entitlement "for love" violates my entitlement for respect and freedom.



Pabalebo
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30 May 2014, 3:12 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
The basic entitlement you purchase with life is simple respect and human decency. And your entitlement "for love" violates my entitlement for respect and freedom.


I'd argue that no one is even entitled to that. You get born with a hopefully-functional body and brain. Everything that happens after that is the result of your actions, the actions of those around you, and dumb luck, or lack thereof. There isn't any such thing as a guarantee or an entitlement in this world.


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cannotthinkoff
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30 May 2014, 3:26 am

Pabalebo wrote:
cannotthinkoff wrote:
The basic entitlement you purchase with life is simple respect and human decency. And your entitlement "for love" violates my entitlement for respect and freedom.


I'd argue that no one is even entitled to that. You get born with a hopefully-functional body and brain. Everything that happens after that is the result of your actions, the actions of those around you, and dumb luck, or lack thereof. There isn't any such thing as a guarantee or an entitlement in this world.

True, objectively there isn't. But I believe that as humans, we are trying to create and guarantee certain so called "rights". One of them, for some reason the most basic one, is the right to live, so people believe that we are basically entitled to life once we are born (or conceived...). I think for instance we are entitled to love and support and nourishment from our parents, and then later in life support from our governing body because that is why it is there.
Above all, I believe, we *are* entitled to basic quality of life, to live with dignity as humans. For instance, looks like its forbidden to demand you entitlements, but its very much acceptable to be dictated your duties. From the moment we are born we suddenly "owe" everyone just for being alive. I do feel very much entitled not to be viewed as a sex object, and not to face discrimination or even inconveniences based on my gender.



kraftiekortie
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30 May 2014, 7:54 am

If we owe allegiance to a government, the government owes allegiance to its people

It's only fair.

Within a US context, this could be interpreted as a call for a health care system modeled after the "Cradle-to-grave" Scandinavian model.



Cafeaulait
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30 May 2014, 8:16 am

These topics make me cough.



Ann2011
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30 May 2014, 9:42 am

I found an interesting article about Arthur Chu, the Jeopardy champion, who has written about this issue:

Salon

From the article:

Quote:
Enter: former ?Jeopardy? wizard Arthur Chu, a self-identified nerd who has written a gripping call-to-action in the Daily Beast asking nerds to reevaluate how the culture they?ve consumed and participated in for years treats women. Movies, sitcoms and video games targeted toward nerds too often teach men that women are status symbols, a thing to be earned, he notes. ?So what happens to nerdy guys who keep finding out that the princess they were promised is always in another castle?? Chu asks. ?When they ?do everything right,? they get good grades, they get a decent job, and that wife they were promised in the package deal doesn?t arrive?? Frustration ensues, frustration that could lead to worse things.


Quote:
And, worst of all, he has fan pages on Facebook that still haven?t been taken down, filled with angry frustrated men singing his praises and seriously suggesting that the onus is on women to offer sex to men to keep them from going on rampages.


Quote:
We are not the lovable nerdy protagonist who?s lovable because he?s the protagonist. We?re not guaranteed to get laid by the hot chick of our dreams as long as we work hard enough at it. There isn?t a team of writers or a studio audience pulling for us to triumph by ?getting the girl? in the end. And when our clever ruses and schemes to ?get girls? fail, it?s not because the girls are too stupid or too bitchy or too shallow to play by those unwritten rules we?ve absorbed.



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30 May 2014, 10:00 pm

Pabalebo wrote:
Love is a human need just like food, water, air, shelter, etc... yes.

However, that doesn't entitle anyone to it. Simply being alive doesn't entitle you to any of the other basic needs either. You, or someone on you behalf, must work for all of those things in order to sustain your life. And it's the same with love. You have to work for it. And maybe you have to be a little bit lucky too, and be working the right way for it, and be looking in the right spot for it. And maybe you'll never fulfill this need... there are plenty of people in this world who don't have their other basic human needs fulfilled either. It sucks, but that's life, and the feeling that lacking something sucks does not entitle you to that thing which you are lacking.


Based on this parents should not show their babies love since said babies have not 'earned' it yet...and of course I entirely disagree that people are not entitled to basics like food, water, air and shelter in society. Now obviously to have those things people have to work to sustain it but everyone in said society should be entitled to those things....even say someone who doesn't have a job like yeah I think I am entitled to food and water even if I am unable to work and on SSI, I think a homeless person on the street is certainly entitled to those things but I am limiting to this in society....in nature the harsh reality is if you can't fend for yourself you're screwed but in societies made up of people I think people are and its societies job to make sure those needs are met.


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Ann2011
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30 May 2014, 10:15 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Pabalebo wrote:
Love is a human need just like food, water, air, shelter, etc... yes.

However, that doesn't entitle anyone to it. Simply being alive doesn't entitle you to any of the other basic needs either. You, or someone on you behalf, must work for all of those things in order to sustain your life. And it's the same with love. You have to work for it. And maybe you have to be a little bit lucky too, and be working the right way for it, and be looking in the right spot for it. And maybe you'll never fulfill this need... there are plenty of people in this world who don't have their other basic human needs fulfilled either. It sucks, but that's life, and the feeling that lacking something sucks does not entitle you to that thing which you are lacking.


Based on this parents should not show their babies love since said babies have not 'earned' it yet...and of course I entirely disagree that people are not entitled to basics like food, water, air and shelter in society. Now obviously to have those things people have to work to sustain it but everyone in said society should be entitled to those things....even say someone who doesn't have a job like yeah I think I am entitled to food and water even if I am unable to work and on SSI, I think a homeless person on the street is certainly entitled to those things but I am limiting to this in society....in nature the harsh reality is if you can't fend for yourself you're screwed but in societies made up of people I think people are and its societies job to make sure those needs are met.


But how would society provide people with lovers? It would be easy enough to legalize prostitution, but that only covers sex not love.

There's just no way an entitlement to love can be fulfilled.



MDD123
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31 May 2014, 6:49 am

I was about to mention how you can't make anyone feel anything (physically impossible). Then I remembered the scientist from last century who was able to make subjects feel all kinds of things by applying electricity to certain parts of their brains.

So I'm probably going to go that route when the time comes, maybe put out an ad on craigslist.


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