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Ann2011
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29 May 2014, 1:31 pm

When I was growing up, I always assumed I would find someone special to share my life with. This was probably the result of societal conditioning rather than something I came up with myself. There are certainly a lot of examples of this "norm" in media and religion.
I have come to learn that finding such a person is the exception rather than the rule.
My question is to both men and women: do you feel that you are entitled to a partner and, if so, who or what is to blame for your lack of one?
I don't feel entitled to a man. Sometimes I feel lonely, but I don't feel anger towards men in general. So, if you are reading this and are angry because of your lack of a partner, could you explain where the anger comes from.
There seems to be a lot of strife lately in this forum with regard to gender issues. I don't understand why.



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29 May 2014, 1:45 pm

I don't necessarily feel like I am entitled to that, and I am not even sure I could find someone who would tolerate me enough to actually want to have a serious intimate relationship. And I am not really sure if I ever really thought that was for sure going to happen can't remember thinking much about that as a child. Not saying everyone hates me but I have a lot of issues and those sort of push people away even if I don't want it to...I've always been sad when I get in a relationship with a guy and it doesn't work out but I don't feel any raging/angry feelings towards males in general, as far as friends and acquaintances I tend to get along easier with males.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 29 May 2014, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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29 May 2014, 1:45 pm

I've never felt that sense of entitlement. Sometimes, I feel like a partnership; sometimes, I don't

I am a married man---but sometimes, I feel like I want to be single. Sometimes, I don't feel like she's partnering with me.

I feel you have to work for partnership--not that one is entitled to partnerships.



starvingartist
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29 May 2014, 1:55 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
When I was growing up, I always assumed I would find someone special to share my life with. This was probably the result of societal conditioning rather than something I came up with myself. There are certainly a lot of examples of this "norm" in media and religion.
I have come to learn that finding such a person is the exception rather than the rule.
My question is to both men and women: do you feel that you are entitled to a partner and, if so, who or what is to blame for your lack of one?
I don't feel entitled to a man. Sometimes I feel lonely, but I don't feel anger towards men in general. So, if you are reading this and are angry because of your lack of a partner, could you explain where the anger comes from.
There seems to be a lot of strife lately in this forum with regard to gender issues. I don't understand why.


i really don't understand it either--i grew up with the same sort of narrative (ie. someday you'll find your prince charming, blah, blah, blah), and despite the fact that i've been single for 10 years during what is supposed to be the (sexual) prime of my life i don't feel bitter about it. i do get lonely sometimes and i haven't given up on the idea of spending the rest of my life with someone if i ever encounter the right (read: compatible) someone, but in the meantime i just go on with my life, trying to be the best person i can, doing the things i love, learning, growing, acquiring skills, etc. it bothers me that i still struggle with trusting people, but i'm working on that. none of this makes me hate men though, or think it is all the fault of men that i am where i am, or makes me enjoy the company of men or appreciate men in general any less. lots of women have mistreated me too, lots of women have lied to me and betrayed me. i don't understand how all the focus for people's unhappiness can be so focused on one group (the opposite sex) like that.



Klowglas
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29 May 2014, 1:56 pm

Humans should be entitled food, water, and love, because that is what their humanity demands. Food and water nurtures their bodies, but love nurtures the spirit.

I don't see any human being going without love without some serious adverse effects, just like going without water or food will harm you, going without love sort of misses the very thing that food and water wants to support, which is love.

I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.



Sweetleaf
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29 May 2014, 2:01 pm

Klowglas wrote:
Humans should be entitled food, water, and love, because that is what their humanity demands. Food and water nurtures their bodies, but love nurtures the spirit.

I don't see any human being going without love without some serious adverse effects, just like going without water or food will harm you, going without love sort of misses the very thing that food and water wants to support, which is love.

I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


I thought there was love between friends and family to though, so I'd say being entitled to love and being entitled to an intimate relationship are a bit different...of course people need love since they have proven its needed for babies to develop right, if they get neglect then it slows their development and what not. But it takes a lot of hard work on both sides to make a relationship work and some people might not always be in a postion where they could handle their responsibility in the relationship.


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Klowglas
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29 May 2014, 2:17 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
Humans should be entitled food, water, and love, because that is what their humanity demands. Food and water nurtures their bodies, but love nurtures the spirit.

I don't see any human being going without love without some serious adverse effects, just like going without water or food will harm you, going without love sort of misses the very thing that food and water wants to support, which is love.

I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


I thought there was love between friends and family to though, so I'd say being entitled to love and being entitled to an intimate relationship are a bit different...of course people need love since they have proven its needed for babies to develop right, if they get neglect then it slows their development and what not. But it takes a lot of hard work on both sides to make a relationship work and some people might not always be in a postion where they could handle their responsibility in the relationship.


That's just one part of love that also needs to be fulfilled, a human being wants a mother and a father; both have the same sort of love, both are just as essential to a proper upbringing. Then there's the sister whose relationship is unique, and then the brother, whose relationship is also unique, then there are the friends and extended family network -- all just as important.

That's why you see couples and family take part in the community, if they were content in just one side of love, then they wouldn't need to explore the other facets, but because they demand the other sides of love, they seek it.



Ann2011
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29 May 2014, 2:23 pm

Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


So, who is responsible for providing you with this entitlement?



Vomelche
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29 May 2014, 2:24 pm

I think this is the old fashioned way of thinking, which I can relate to myself too. Most people nowadays however, don't look for the ideal or commitment, but rather want to have fun and try new things.



Last edited by Vomelche on 29 May 2014, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TallyMan
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29 May 2014, 2:25 pm

Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


In a philosophical and biological sense you can say you are entitled to love; but in real life nobody is entitled to the romantic love of another (specific) person. Romantic love is something given by the other; it is not something taken or demanded.

I've never felt "entitled" to romantic love. For the first 22 years of my life I struggled trying to form relationships with women as many others have done so here. I knew the frustration of wanting to be in a loving relationship with a woman but my social skills were deplorable and combined with a total lack of conversational chit-chat made it very difficult for me to approach women or to even maintain a conversation with them. Not many women at the pub or nightclub were interested in listening to a monologue about physics or computer programming! Night after night at such places I went home feeling alone and miserable. Then one day I met someone and something clicked. We dated for a year or so and that was enough to make me feel more comfortable around women and to learn better how to communicate and how to function in a relationship.

I've not had many girlfriends, but I've been more or less happily married for the last twenty years. The hangups and problems I had talking to women in my youth have long since gone. I can appreciate many of the difficulties that the young men on this site suffer. What I can't comprehend is why some of these men end up hating women for their own shortcomings or feel that women owe them something. It just isn't logical nor is it helpful. If someone holds such destructive attitudes towards women they haven't got a hope in hell of attracting a woman or establishing a loving relationship.

The only advice I can give to the young men of this forum is to simply treat women as people, ordinary human beings. Learn to talk to women with no agenda, find out what shared interests you have with them and explore them. Ask questions to get to know them better (without it being a Gestapo interrogation); pick up on their replies and explore them further, particularly if it is something you are interested in. Something may click with the woman but more often than not it won't. No big deal. If you get into the habit of simply talking to women without trying to chat them up; you will eventually find one that you relate to and that relates back to you too. The less hard you try to "pick up" a woman, the easier it is to get to know them and then see what happens...


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Last edited by TallyMan on 29 May 2014, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starvingartist
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29 May 2014, 2:32 pm

Klowglas wrote:
Humans should be entitled food, water, and love, because that is what their humanity demands. Food and water nurtures their bodies, but love nurtures the spirit.

I don't see any human being going without love without some serious adverse effects, just like going without water or food will harm you, going without love sort of misses the very thing that food and water wants to support, which is love.

I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


i may not have a relationship with a SO, but my life is not without love in it. i have one excellent friend who i know loves me for who i am--but most importantly, i have learned to love myself. i know most people think this is hokey "new age" crap when they hear it; but what i mean by it is that i thought about how i would like to be treated by a SO if i were in a relationship...and then i learned to provide those things for myself. i learned to make my internal dialogue with myself more positive (i wouldn't hang out with someone who would talk to me the way i used to talk to myself in my own head, so i stopped talking to myself like that), i learned to take better care of myself and my body, i learned to value my acquired skills, knowledge, and accomplishments. i learned to do fun things that i enjoy by myself, to be more spontaneous and willing to try new activities and ideas, and i learned to go easy on myself when feeling low or ill. in a very concrete and practical way, it is possible to learn to love oneself quite effectively and satisfactorily.



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29 May 2014, 2:36 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


In a philosophical and biological sense you can say you are entitled to love; but in real life nobody is entitled to the romantic love of another (specific) person. Romantic love is something given by the other; it is not something taken or demanded.

I've never felt "entitled" to romantic love. For the first 22 years of my life I struggled trying to form relationships with women as many others have done so here. I knew the frustration of wanting to be in a loving relationship with a woman but my social skills were deplorable and combined with a total lack of conversational chit-chat made it very difficult for me to approach women or to even maintain a conversation with them. Not many women at the pub or nightclub were interested in listening to a monologue about physics or computer programming! Night after night at such places I went home feeling alone and miserable. Then one day I met someone and something clicked. We dated for a year or so and that was enough to make me feel more comfortable around women and to learn better how to communicate and how to function in a relationship.

I've not had many girlfriends, but I've been more or less happily married for the last twenty years. The hangups and problems I had talking to women in my youth have long since gone. I can appreciate many of the difficulties that the young men on this site suffer. What I can't comprehend is why some of these men end up hating women for their own shortcomings or feel that women owe them something. It just isn't logical nor is it helpful. If someone holds such destructive attitudes towards women they haven't got a hope in hell of attracting a woman or establishing a loving relationship.

The only advice I can give to the young men of this forum is to simply treat women as people, ordinary human beings. Learn to talk to women with no agenda, find out what shared interests you have with them and explore them. Ask questions to get to know them better (without it being a Gestapo interrogation); pick up on their replies and explore them further, particularly if it is something you are interested in. Something may click with the woman but more often than not it won't. No big deal. If you get into the habit of simply talking to women without trying to chat them up; you will eventually find one that you relate to and that relates back to you too. The less hard you try to "pick up" a woman, the easier it is to get to know them and then see what happens...


If I may say, having been many times on the receiving end of the chat-up...if that's the whole strategy, chat a woman up, it really goes nowhere fast. I've sometimes been surprised to find that a man actually has no conversation beyond the chat-up and furthermore wasn't expecting to have to have conversations -- and of course wasn't really interested in me beyond "babe, no man around". It's as though the expectation was chat->sex->bye->repeat n->love, marital bliss, etc. Which, if you think about it, is pretty weird.



Klowglas
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29 May 2014, 2:36 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


So, who is responsible for providing you with this entitlement?


Humanity, they're the ones that brought me here in the first place, surely they have need for me somewhere.



Klowglas
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29 May 2014, 2:40 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


In a philosophical and biological sense you can say you are entitled to love; but in real life nobody is entitled to the romantic love of another (specific) person. Romantic love is something given by the other; it is not something taken or demanded.

I've never felt "entitled" to romantic love. For the first 22 years of my life I struggled trying to form relationships with women as many others have done so here. I knew the frustration of wanting to be in a loving relationship with a woman but my social skills were deplorable and combined with a total lack of conversational chit-chat made it very difficult for me to approach women or to even maintain a conversation with them. Not many women at the pub or nightclub were interested in listening to a monologue about physics or computer programming! Night after night at such places I went home feeling alone and miserable. Then one day I met someone and something clicked. We dated for a year or so and that was enough to make me feel more comfortable around women and to learn better how to communicate and how to function in a relationship.

I've not had many girlfriends, but I've been more or less happily married for the last twenty years. The hangups and problems I had talking to women in my youth have long since gone. I can appreciate many of the difficulties that the young men on this site suffer. What I can't comprehend is why some of these men end up hating women for their own shortcomings or feel that women owe them something. It just isn't logical nor is it helpful. If someone holds such destructive attitudes towards women they haven't got a hope in hell of attracting a woman or establishing a loving relationship.

The only advice I can give to the young men of this forum is to simply treat women as people, ordinary human beings. Learn to talk to women with no agenda, find out what shared interests you have with them and explore them. Ask questions to get to know them better (without it being a Gestapo interrogation); pick up on their replies and explore them further, particularly if it is something you are interested in. Something may click with the woman but more often than not it won't. No big deal. If you get into the habit of simply talking to women without trying to chat them up; you will eventually find one that you relate to and that relates back to you too. The less hard you try to "pick up" a woman, the easier it is to get to know them and then see what happens...


You feel the need of romantic love as much as you feel the need for water or food; it's a subset of love, you cannot seperate it from love as if it was its separate thing. The reason why its absence hurts is that you demand for it to be there in the first place -- you were made to have it just as much as you were made to give it.

Love is not taken, no, but it IS demanded just as much as you demand water or food, because that is what your humanity requires for a good and worthwhile life.



Ann2011
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29 May 2014, 2:41 pm

Klowglas wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


So, who is responsible for providing you with this entitlement?


Humanity, they're the ones that brought me here in the first place, surely they have need for me somewhere.


Humanity . . . I don't know if you have a SO, but for the sake of argument, let's say you don't. How should humanity go about providing you with one?



Klowglas
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29 May 2014, 2:47 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Klowglas wrote:
I am entitled to love because I am human, and because it's what my humanity demands and needs, without it my existence wouldn't have any value; I would be nothing.


So, who is responsible for providing you with this entitlement?


Humanity, they're the ones that brought me here in the first place, surely they have need for me somewhere.


Humanity . . . I don't know if you have a SO, but for the sake of argument, let's say you don't. How should humanity go about providing you with one?


I would figure someone would love me for my humanity.