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How do you feel about a Neurodiversity Church?
No way, I'll pass -- not interested 33%  33%  [ 17 ]
I'm curious, and might see what it's about 48%  48%  [ 25 ]
I'd be willing to contribute for the cause 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
I'm all for it! Go for it! 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 52

Quill
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09 Jun 2014, 12:17 pm

I think that's a great idea. I would watch online. I quit going to church as a teenager, mainly because of sensory issues. I hated the welcome portion, except I wished people would ignore me. It's awkward to hug strangers! I also hated how loud the whole thing was, especially the music portion. When I could get away with it, I would hide out in the bathroom until they finished that part. :lol: Once I was able to stop going, I never planned to go back but your idea sounds really nice!

A lot of small and new churches use school cafeterias here, others use storefronts in shopping areas. One actually uses an existing church and has their services after the main church finishes theirs.

I'm not sure if you have to be ordained or not, it seems likely that you would need to be if you want to start a specific denomination of church but maybe not if it's interfaith. I don't really know. I don't think it's too hard to get ordained if you do need to be, I know my grandfather did some kind of correspondence course that took a few months and he was able to have a church thing for prisoners. I actually think he might have had an ASD himself, and religion was his special interest. He had quite a few traits.

It would probably be good to talk to other churches about how to get funding and stuff. A lot of them work together closely in my town, even ones from entirely different faiths. Part of it would be from the members donating, although probably not all of it in this case since a lot of people with ASDs don't have jobs.

Good luck with this project!



Shep
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09 Jun 2014, 10:05 pm

vickygleitz wrote:
The church I attend [rarely] is a Unitarian church. All beliefs are welcome. All people are welcome. There are traditional Christians, pagans, jews, members of LGBT community, all sorts of activists, etc. Our church works with the homeless, Habitat for Humanity, and so many other things. I wonder if a Unitarian church might be able to help you to start a new church. Or, being Unitarianism is about working together to make the world a better place, you could actually start a program within a Unitarian church and be able to count on the church itself for support in different areas. That is one thing I hope to do, but I have to wait until I can find a little bit more room on my plate without toppling everything else already piled on it.
Thanks for the input! The church I go to has a "special needs" program that they've started, and we do similar work for the community out of goodwill. I'll send an email to my church tomorrow to see what their take on this is.

Quill wrote:
I think that's a great idea. I would watch online. I quit going to church as a teenager, mainly because of sensory issues. I hated the welcome portion, except I wished people would ignore me. It's awkward to hug strangers! I also hated how loud the whole thing was, especially the music portion. When I could get away with it, I would hide out in the bathroom until they finished that part. :lol: Once I was able to stop going, I never planned to go back but your idea sounds really nice!

A lot of small and new churches use school cafeterias here, others use storefronts in shopping areas. One actually uses an existing church and has their services after the main church finishes theirs.

I'm not sure if you have to be ordained or not, it seems likely that you would need to be if you want to start a specific denomination of church but maybe not if it's interfaith. I don't really know. I don't think it's too hard to get ordained if you do need to be, I know my grandfather did some kind of correspondence course that took a few months and he was able to have a church thing for prisoners. I actually think he might have had an ASD himself, and religion was his special interest. He had quite a few traits.

It would probably be good to talk to other churches about how to get funding and stuff. A lot of them work together closely in my town, even ones from entirely different faiths. Part of it would be from the members donating, although probably not all of it in this case since a lot of people with ASDs don't have jobs.

Good luck with this project!
Thanks for the input! Streaming online seems to be a fairly popular point so far, so I will definitely stress for that when/if this comes to fruition. It's easily understood too -- autism and sensory issues go hand in hand (I have them myself to be honest), not everyone is comfortable being physically present, and most aren't within reasonable proximity to do so anyways. I had a thought about the communion -- my church uses wine, but I'm thinking water and red food dye, which I would mix during the service into some kind of clear dispenser. Definitely would make for a neat visual, that's for sure, and it would avoid the issue of those that don't like certain beverages (like me -- I'll drink water, milk, apple juice, and that's pretty much it, so this kind of thing is right up my alley).

I'm actually getting excited about this, it started with a random thought that I couldn't shake, but has definitely gained quite a bit of traction! :D



Shep
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10 Jun 2014, 2:37 pm

Status update: just heard back from the pastor at my church about this. He and a couple others are "intrigued" by the concept, and he found the idea of live streaming the service "exciting!" We're going to meet up a couple Saturdays from now to sit down and discuss it further. Hopefully all goes well, but it sounds like this will be more of a church plant rather than an entirely new church, which should help jump-start many parts of this process. I'll let everyone know how this goes! :D



wozeree
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10 Jun 2014, 6:59 pm

Hi Shep, I think it's a great idea if you want to do it. I am not even remotely religious, even when I was, I wasn't that much. I love Bible stories though!

I'm kind of confused about what part you want to play in it though. YOu speak of being a minister, but do you want to be one or do you just need one? If you don't want to be one, I'd just get somebody who did want to. Also, churches are supposed to (as far as I understand), have a set of beliefs, you seem to be unclear on what you want your church to be about. (You could have one where people can believe what they want - did somebody say that already?)

For those reasons I think it's great you reached out to your church. It seems like the best idea.

Good Luck!

Hey, your name is short for shepherd? Maybe you are meant to be a pastor!



Shep
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10 Jun 2014, 7:44 pm

wozeree wrote:
Hi Shep, I think it's a great idea if you want to do it. I am not even remotely religious, even when I was, I wasn't that much. I love Bible stories though!
Thanks for the input! :D

wozeree wrote:
I'm kind of confused about what part you want to play in it though. YOu speak of being a minister, but do you want to be one or do you just need one? If you don't want to be one, I'd just get somebody who did want to.
I'm hoping I can become one. I've already thought up a few sermon ideas, and I feel like I should be taking the lead on this one (well, second to you-know-who :lol: )

wozeree wrote:
Also, churches are supposed to (as far as I understand), have a set of beliefs, you seem to be unclear on what you want your church to be about. (You could have one where people can believe what they want - did somebody say that already?)
This would be a Lutheran church, basically the same beliefs of the church I go to, but altered just a wee bit in specific areas. :wink:

wozeree wrote:
For those reasons I think it's great you reached out to your church. It seems like the best idea.
Same here! :)

wozeree wrote:
Hey, your name is short for shepherd? Maybe you are meant to be a pastor!
Indeed it is! Although spelled a bit differently, and it's my last name, but close enough! :lol:



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12 Jun 2014, 7:35 pm

...I have interest , I checked the " second to most interested " choice , though that's maybe a little too strong for me , but the " third to most interested " seemed a bit wak ~ I have complicated feelings about my feelings towards Christianity , which I have been moving towards recently ~ But , at least this post maybe isn't the place to say it...Given my economic/personal position (As I have detailed in my " Where ? " line and several lines with my ASS-P monicker in the heading .) , I dunno...And , unfortunately :( , it's a little questionable that I'd even be able to have a personal computer , even laptop , to use on a Sunday morning :(...I'm not as dicey about personal contact as I guess many on the spectrum are , really , I rather feel I don't get ENOUGH :cry...........
Hiowever , that - kind of - aside from your point re: churchs' " shake hads/hug "/whatever sessions.........:



Shep
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12 Jun 2014, 8:59 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...I have interest , I checked the " second to most interested " choice , though that's maybe a little too strong for me , but the " third to most interested " seemed a bit wak ~ I have complicated feelings about my feelings towards Christianity , which I have been moving towards recently ~ But , at least this post maybe isn't the place to say it...Given my economic/personal position (As I have detailed in my " Where ? " line and several lines with my ASS-P monicker in the heading .) , I dunno...And , unfortunately :( , it's a little questionable that I'd even be able to have a personal computer , even laptop , to use on a Sunday morning :(...I'm not as dicey about personal contact as I guess many on the spectrum are , really , I rather feel I don't get ENOUGH :cry...........
Hiowever , that - kind of - aside from your point re: churchs' " shake hads/hug "/whatever sessions.........:
YouTube to the rescue! :D

I came across this page on YouTube, which seems to indicate that they will provide channels to nonprofits that include (among other things) live streaming. If Google is as awesome as I have always believed, there will be a way to play back these live streams as recorded videos, even on a later date. So as long as you have any kind of internet access at some point (say, at a public library or WiFi hotspot), you can always catch the services after they air. This will be particularly useful for those in countries where the live stream is an "ungodly" hour (sorry, had to use that pun there :lol: ), and you can always revisit an older video at a later date. With any luck, I won't have to delete a single service.

As far as economics, don't worry about it. Your support is more than enough! :wink:



N0tYetDeadFred
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13 Jun 2014, 6:10 pm

I think you would be surprised how many clergymen/women, monks, etc. are aspies. I think the best solution for you would be to find a space within the church to support aspies, not segregation. We are the body of Christ, so to speak: they need us, and we need them.

You should easily be able to find a church to support what you want to do. For that matter, Lutherans also normally partner with other mainline churches: Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Cooperative/American Baptist, etc. These churches tend to be less conservative and more intellectual, and if you throw a rock in a meeting of their pastors you'll probably hit an aspie (but that is actually rude behavior.) :)

Update: Just read further down. Glad your pastor was supportive!



Shep
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13 Jun 2014, 7:31 pm

N0tYetDeadFred wrote:
I think you would be surprised how many clergymen/women, monks, etc. are aspies. I think the best solution for you would be to find a space within the church to support aspies, not segregation. We are the body of Christ, so to speak: they need us, and we need them.
They already have support groups (my church for example has a "special needs" program, as well as all the Aspie support groups that exist outside religious establishments), but my goal is to provide a place that's intentionally designed to provide a safe haven to those that are on the spectrum, as well as their friends and family. NT's are more than welcome too, so hopefully it won't be seen as segregation.

Small status update: I registered a domain for the church, however the site isn't done yet, so I won't post the link until it's presentable. I also pre-applied for a different domain that is coming out, so with any luck, I'll be able to grab that one up too.



EsotericResearch
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14 Jun 2014, 12:58 am

Hell I would go even though I'm not usually religious, sounds like a great idea.



Shep
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15 Jun 2014, 8:06 am

EsotericResearch wrote:
Hell I would go even though I'm not usually religious, sounds like a great idea.
Wow, thanks for the support! :D

I'm meeting with my pastor next Saturday to go over the details, I'll let everyone know how it goes!



Shep
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23 Jun 2014, 11:45 am

I spoke with my pastor last Saturday, and I found the meeting to be very productive! My Mom came along with me, and was able to provide valuable input as well (particularly about the research she had done and the parts of my childhood I don't remember). He informed me he had been spreading the idea around, and so far has gotten a TON of positive feedback. To show it's more than a simple idea, he wants me to write up an abstract about it (those of you that don't know, an abstract basically a formal summary), and the draft of our thoughts will come later, so I will work on that very soon. We even worked on a very helpful game plan. Here's the basics of it:

1 - Get the website up and presentable (working on this now)
2 - Start posting to a blog (similar to my DeLorean one, but in this case only in relation to the church)
3 - Start up a forum for the church, essentially crowd-sourcing questions and concerns to address in future sermons and allowing for public/private discussion of Autism in the Bible (yes, it's in there, although not in the way everyone thinks)
4 - Expand from there

It's that fourth point that's still somewhat of an unknown currently, however the excellent news in all of this is that we have a path from here to follow, and as we travel along that path, the future of all of this will become far clearer. Especially after the forum is up and running (which, by the way, should NOT be seen as competition to here, but rather a very-much optional and additional resource), this will only head into good places.

And just as an additional note: since I'm a web developer by trade, I can alter a pre-existing forum system to suit my needs. I'm hoping I can use phpBB (which I am vastly familiar with from my years being an administrator on a different phpBB forum), however there are some areas of concern with regards to any forum software that I need to address first (particularly in preventing abuse), so bear in mind it's not as simple as taking a pre-existing solution and dropping it in place, it definitely needs some tweaking first.

But again, this is all very excellent news, and has given me even more motivation to get the ball rolling. Onwards and upwards! :D



Shep
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26 Jun 2014, 4:46 pm

Parts 1 and 3 are now officially done! :D

neurodiversitychurch.com is now up and operational! I know the main site is a very, very basic layout, however I'm hoping I can get a graphic designer on the spectrum to finish the work for me (compensated for their time and effort, of course). I have a general idea in mind, and I'd take a crack at it except I kinda want to fruits of someone else's labor to show here. Hiring a new web designer at work showed me I have a ton to learn with regards to web design :lol: The forum on the other hand is looking pretty excellent as-is though, but I'm open to changing that to match.

This is already massive leaps and bounds forward in such a short timeframe! :D



Shep
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08 Jul 2014, 7:57 pm

Yet another status update: the first two sermons are now up (on the forums, under the "Autism in the Bible" section), and thanks to my fiancee, we now have a logo prototype! Take a look at the work in progress:

Image

"Work in progress" because the whole thing will have four rows of puzzle pieces throughout the white section, and will be in a rainbow color (so no white involved). To help visualize the end result, the white part will look similar to this:

Image

With puzzle pieces of single colors laid throughout like this:

Image

Creating a mosaic of sorts of puzzle pieces, in an overall rainbow effect. That's the goal anyways, except I'm far too busy with other projects to learn proper vectoring and whatnot (this was done in half an hour in GIMP), so I'm looking to hire someone to convert this overall concept into a vector (optimally SVG format), in addition to someone to do the web graphic part.

As always, feedback is very much appreciated! :D



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11 Jul 2014, 1:31 pm

If you want some ideas for making a Aspie friendly sanctuary. I can give you a few pointers.

1) Use an auditorium (performing arts theater). Most church sanctuaries are of this configuration. Avoid at all cost using a gymnasium or other sports faculties as the lighting system is based on magnetically ballasted mercury vapor/metal halide technology witch flickers like crazy and can give a lot of ASD people a headache. Another thing to mindful of is the acoustics of the building as well. The reason I bring this up is because a lot of start up churches will rent space from a school and may get the gym instead of the auditorium.

2) Avoid worship/praise music. even the old hymns style music is still too much for most ASD people. if you gonna use music. I would recommend using airy/ambient style music like Brian Eno and Iasos. or choir music like Eric Whitacre.

3) Keep the house light as dim as possible and if possible, turn them off completely. especially during prayer. Also beware of lights that flicker. Some LED lights will flicker if dimmed because of the PWM control they use. Also, if you plan on using video projection. Make sure that the projector is LCD and not DLP. DLP projectors flicker really bad.



Shep
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12 Jul 2014, 5:03 am

LupaLuna wrote:
If you want some ideas for making a Aspie friendly sanctuary. I can give you a few pointers.

1) Use an auditorium (performing arts theater). Most church sanctuaries are of this configuration. Avoid at all cost using a gymnasium or other sports faculties as the lighting system is based on magnetically ballasted mercury vapor/metal halide technology witch flickers like crazy and can give a lot of ASD people a headache. Another thing to mindful of is the acoustics of the building as well. The reason I bring this up is because a lot of start up churches will rent space from a school and may get the gym instead of the auditorium.

2) Avoid worship/praise music. even the old hymns style music is still too much for most ASD people. if you gonna use music. I would recommend using airy/ambient style music like Brian Eno and Iasos. or choir music like Eric Whitacre.

3) Keep the house light as dim as possible and if possible, turn them off completely. especially during prayer. Also beware of lights that flicker. Some LED lights will flicker if dimmed because of the PWM control they use. Also, if you plan on using video projection. Make sure that the projector is LCD and not DLP. DLP projectors flicker really bad.
Thanks for the tips! With regards to #2, I was thinking of having two services per week, one with music and one without. Points 1 and 3 were something I had not considered before, and while I've been going to a gym-type service for years, it never occurred to me that it might be an issue. It also reminds me of another point: if I do any kind of sound amplification (e.g. speaking into a microphone and having that project to the rest of the room), it would probably be best to have a high-end cutoff on the amp I use so that high-pitched feedback is mostly eliminated, as well as looking into some other technology that can reduce the feedback as much as possible.

I very much appreciate the input! This was actually incredibly helpful :D