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Sarah99
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24 Jun 2014, 2:09 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Sarah99 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
sounds to me like he's worried the therapist will pick up on the fact that he's a selfish as*hole.


^^This^^

I'm not really seeing autism, but many signs of assholery. Especially that he views any question about his mental health as a sign of the asker's illness. Not a good sign.


Yes I think there is definitely some as#holery there but also he may be in extreme denial that he may have the condition.


I see the possibility of something else here.

You say he "may" have an autism spectrum disorder, but give little evidence that he has one and some details that seem very unlike autism, yet you ask for help in bringing him to "accept the diagnosis."

At the same time, you mention that when you discussed the same issue with a professional who saw you and your husband, he did not confirm your amateur diagnosis of your husband, but instead told you not to focus on this possibility, certainly not to bring it up with your husband (advice which you ignored.) The therapist told you to deal directly with your actual grievances with your husband. The therapist also told you to deal with your husbands grievances with yourself-whatever those are.

My thought on reading about this sociable outgoing guy with whom your relationship has soured is not that you need advice from people about autism, but that you need to stop using the idea of autism as a distancing device to keep you from engaging directly with the issues that have destroyed your marriage.

I find your rapid changes of course on what you want for the future of the marriage confusing:

You would never leave if he has Aspergers (does this mean you want it to be Aspergers so you can use that as a reason not to leave?).
His good relationship with your daughter makes it hard for you to leave.
You are surprised that he got cold after you discussed divorce with him.
You want to know if marriages with Aspergers can work (the ones that work can)
You want advice on helping him come to terms with a diagnosis that has not been made, despite professional advice to deal with behavioral issues directly rather than imagined causes for them.


Believe me I am just as confused by the whole situation and I really don't know what I'm dealing with or whether I want to stay with him. The therapist said it may not be a good idea to tell him directly because of his extreme defensiveness. If I address each of my issues separately ie. lack of responsibility he is more likely to listen.

I didn't really go into detail about the signs of Aspergers I notice that are realated to social cues because they don't bother me so much. For the most part he does fine but he has trouble realizing when a conversation has ended and tends to talk at people without listening to them. Sometimes the timing of what he says is wrong and he will laugh or say something inappropriate at the wrong time without realizing it. He is very honest and direct and doesn't seem to understand when it comes across as rude or insensitive and it often feels like he is interrogating instead of asking questions. Apparently clumsiness can be a part of Aspergers and I guess I would describe my husband as being like a bull in a china shop if that makes sense. Lastly from what I've read the age of the father at conception has been linked to ASD's and his father was over 60 when he was conceived.

I could be wrong about all this and maybe these signs are coincidence who knows. I just thought that maybe I would get a better idea by coming here and finding out from people who actually have Aspergers.



Sarah99
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24 Jun 2014, 2:12 pm

Waterfalls wrote:
Sarah I don't know you and there is nothing in what you've written that says Aspie. But I've noticed sometimes Aspie men partner with Aspie women. And when that happens things aren't always easy, misunderstandings and hurt feelings still occur. So I'm not asking related to you, just to that pattern of pairing up. Do you think you could have any broader autism phenotype or even have ASD yourself?


I don't know enough about Aspergers and can't really be objective when it comes to myself. My husband tells me I'm overly sensitive when it comes to other people so maybe his behavior seems worse than it really is in my eyes.



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24 Jun 2014, 2:23 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Sarah, pay no mind, the above is routine when someone who hasn't got autism starts talking about someone who has traits of both AS and assholery. It's a defensive thing. Anyway: I see your difficulty. The thing is, you really cannot count on a court to give you custody, particularly if your daughter has other family she's attached to here and your husband spends significant time playing with her -- even if you're overseeing it. That reads to the court as "great and involved dad", and if he wants custody, they will most certainly consider it. Since you both work, his employment won't be a factor. Undiagnosed AS will not be admissible; diagnosed AS is unlikely to do much for you if he's able to get along at a well-paid job. Things have changed a lot in custody in the last decade.

Frankly, even if you got custody, you'd still have problems. Your decree would likely require you to send your daughter to him for unsupervised visitation for several weeks each year. If he didn't want you around then, he could make you go away, hand her off at the airport and say goodbye. If your husband happened to be involved with someone less than stable, you'd be sending your daughter into the care of the two of them, again, for weeks at a time.

Even leaving aside the question of your daughter's growing up so far from her daddy, it's a tricky and expensive thing, international custody. Talk to knowledgeable lawyers where you are, but it may be better for your daughter if you just stay here.

It seems to me the two things you need to do right away -- because remember, he can file, too -- are to document his impatience with her and get your visa situation sorted. If recording someone else is legal in your state, and he's reliably terrible and angry about her crying, capture this and store the recording someplace away from home. And see about a work visa. At what point can you naturalize?


Thanks for your advice Tarantella. I do believe it is better to be prepared in the event of a divorce than not be. We don't have any of his family near by so I don't think that would factor into the courts decision. However I would rather stay here and deal with custody issues than go back to Aus without my daughter. If we did get divorced I'm sure my husband would wait to do it until after my next greencard is renewed which will be in less than 2 years. He would rather keep me around than not. I'm an eternal optimist and am still hopeful that things will turn around somehow.



Sarah99
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24 Jun 2014, 2:30 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
This is an odd thread.

It starts with, "Help me please!! ! Husband has Aspergers" and "I told him that I love him for who he is" and "I do still love him" and ? He clearly loves our daughter and is wonderful at playing with her"

Maybe I am missing something, but this entire discussion on custody strategy seems a bit extreme. As a parent, you should be doing whatever is in the best interest of your daughter. She didn?t ask to be brought into the world. And, in my opinion, you should consider her needs above all else.


My daughter's needs is what makes this decision so hard. I would love for us to stay a family so she grows up with a father. Apart from the frustration issues and lack of responsibility I do think he is a good father. On the other hand I'm afraid his constant negativity and the way he treats me sometimes will not be good for her.



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24 Jun 2014, 2:51 pm

Sarah99 wrote:
Waterfalls wrote:
Sarah I don't know you and there is nothing in what you've written that says Aspie. But I've noticed sometimes Aspie men partner with Aspie women. And when that happens things aren't always easy, misunderstandings and hurt feelings still occur. So I'm not asking related to you, just to that pattern of pairing up. Do you think you could have any broader autism phenotype or even have ASD yourself?


I don't know enough about Aspergers and can't really be objective when it comes to myself. My husband tells me I'm overly sensitive when it comes to other people so maybe his behavior seems worse than it really is in my eyes.

I wasn't thinking you were exaggerating your concerns about your husband. I was just offering my experience of what I've noticed for me and when I read things written by spouses in case it might be helpful. But if it were relevant I'd think it as or more likely he has ASD if you did.

I apologize if it seemed I was discounting your opinion, I didn't mean to do that.



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24 Jun 2014, 4:59 pm

Sarah99 wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
This is an odd thread.

It starts with, "Help me please!! ! Husband has Aspergers" and "I told him that I love him for who he is" and "I do still love him" and ? He clearly loves our daughter and is wonderful at playing with her"

Maybe I am missing something, but this entire discussion on custody strategy seems a bit extreme. As a parent, you should be doing whatever is in the best interest of your daughter. She didn?t ask to be brought into the world. And, in my opinion, you should consider her needs above all else.


My daughter's needs is what makes this decision so hard. I would love for us to stay a family so she grows up with a father. Apart from the frustration issues and lack of responsibility I do think he is a good father. On the other hand I'm afraid his constant negativity and the way he treats me sometimes will not be good for her.


That's a difficult thing to handle, but having one parent who's optimistic and sociably kind really goes a long way in protecting kids. If he treats you poorly, she probably won't start noticing much for a little while, but after that what it'll hurt is her relationship with him. So maybe at that point, especially if you have a good therapist for her, he can be persuaded that some things need to change. If not, by that time you'll have a more stable foundation.

My ex has a long-term mental illness and was on disability quite a while, and has often had trouble separating his own desires from what's actually good for our daughter. I started taking her to see a therapist when she was pretty tiny, mostly to build a relationship, so that if things started getting difficult for her she'd have someone to talk to with whom she was already comfortable, and who wasn't either of her parents. That's turned out to be a valuable thing, as has a clause in our degree which says that if there's a parenting dispute and one parent calls for mediation/counseling, the other has to go within 30 days. It's meant that multiple counselors saw and heard him for themselves, including our daughter's, and were able to evaluate him. It's also usually brought things to a head when necessary. Having a good children's therapist in the mix can be a helpful thing in lots of ways.



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24 Jun 2014, 9:35 pm

You convey liking and respect for your husband. And you are writing that you want to stay together and feel your husband is a good father.

I do think if he treats you poorly, your daughter will notice, though if it is infrequent and she sees you can handle it in a way you'd feel comfortable she responded someday, that's not all bad. Tarantella may be right about the potential value of a good therapist, but I don't see where that's a comfortable solution as it implies a child being hurt and needing therapy for that hurt, something we'd all rather avoid.

Is it possible that your husband might be able to become more patient by seeing what you do with your daughter? Or at least feel respect and appreciation for what you do? No one likes to feel inadequate so I am wondering if he might be more patient if you negotiate a spoken or unspoken agreement that accommodates what he and you are both good and bad at. And let's each of you avoid feeling pressured to do things you're not good at. What you wrote sounds like he does not seem to want to push you into a corner, which seems positive...:



Sarah99
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25 Jun 2014, 8:07 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Sarah99 wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
This is an odd thread.

It starts with, "Help me please!! ! Husband has Aspergers" and "I told him that I love him for who he is" and "I do still love him" and ? He clearly loves our daughter and is wonderful at playing with her"

Maybe I am missing something, but this entire discussion on custody strategy seems a bit extreme. As a parent, you should be doing whatever is in the best interest of your daughter. She didn?t ask to be brought into the world. And, in my opinion, you should consider her needs above all else.


My daughter's needs is what makes this decision so hard. I would love for us to stay a family so she grows up with a father. Apart from the frustration issues and lack of responsibility I do think he is a good father. On the other hand I'm afraid his constant negativity and the way he treats me sometimes will not be good for her.


That's a difficult thing to handle, but having one parent who's optimistic and sociably kind really goes a long way in protecting kids. If he treats you poorly, she probably won't start noticing much for a little while, but after that what it'll hurt is her relationship with him. So maybe at that point, especially if you have a good therapist for her, he can be persuaded that some things need to change. If not, by that time you'll have a more stable foundation.

My ex has a long-term mental illness and was on disability quite a while, and has often had trouble separating his own desires from what's actually good for our daughter. I started taking her to see a therapist when she was pretty tiny, mostly to build a relationship, so that if things started getting difficult for her she'd have someone to talk to with whom she was already comfortable, and who wasn't either of her parents. That's turned out to be a valuable thing, as has a clause in our degree which says that if there's a parenting dispute and one parent calls for mediation/counseling, the other has to go within 30 days. It's meant that multiple counselors saw and heard him for themselves, including our daughter's, and were able to evaluate him. It's also usually brought things to a head when necessary. Having a good children's therapist in the mix can be a helpful thing in lots of ways.


Thanks Tarantella, its good to hear advice from someone who has been through it themselves.



Sarah99
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25 Jun 2014, 8:42 pm

Waterfalls wrote:
You convey liking and respect for your husband. And you are writing that you want to stay together and feel your husband is a good father.

I do think if he treats you poorly, your daughter will notice, though if it is infrequent and she sees you can handle it in a way you'd feel comfortable she responded someday, that's not all bad. Tarantella may be right about the potential value of a good therapist, but I don't see where that's a comfortable solution as it implies a child being hurt and needing therapy for that hurt, something we'd all rather avoid.

Is it possible that your husband might be able to become more patient by seeing what you do with your daughter? Or at least feel respect and appreciation for what you do? No one likes to feel inadequate so I am wondering if he might be more patient if you negotiate a spoken or unspoken agreement that accommodates what he and you are both good and bad at. And let's each of you avoid feeling pressured to do things you're not good at. What you wrote sounds like he does not seem to want to push you into a corner, which seems positive...:


He definitely has the best intentions for our daughter and is aware that how he behaves can affect her emotional development. However when he is in the moment and feeling frustrated he forgets all about it. I wish he could learn to be more patient. He seems to give up so easily at everything without really putting in much effort. I try to explain how to do certain things with her and he does watch me but if it doesn't work for him then its somehow my fault. Sometimes I just think he is lazy but other times I think he really can't help it. If he can't get her to sleep or she won't eat what he's feeding her he just leaves it to me to handle. I could be really sick with bronchitis and severely sleep deprived and he still will leave everything to me. However with the last incident where he slammed her bedroom door he clearly felt really bad the next day. In fact he was in tears because he thought she would not want to be around him and that he had caused some type of emotional damage. This is the side of him that makes me want to stay. He clearly loves her and is remorseful about his actions. I give him positive feedback as much as I can when it comes to our daughter so hopefully it will eventually pay off.

By the way, no need to apologize in the previous post. I didn't think you were discounting my opinion :)



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30 Jun 2014, 8:37 am

Sarah99 wrote:
Hi everyone,

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I recently discovered that my husband has Aspergers. I've known for a long time that something was up with him but since we've been married and had a baby things have really gone down hill. I do EVERYTHING around the house and took a year out of my MSW degree to take care of our daughter. This wouldn't be so bad if my husband provided financially for us but I am using my savings to pay for half of everything. Its completely a one sided relationship. My ex-boyfriend who I was with for 7 years also had Aspergers but was so completely different to my husband that I didn't recognize the same signs in him. My ex was very shy and socially awkward and initially I felt sorry for him and just wanted to be friends. Somehow he ended up moving in to my place within a month and I fell in love with him. My husband on the other hand is very outgoing and sociable despite some minor issues with social cues. The common theme with both of them is lack of responsibility, constant criticism and negativity, lack of empathy, and lack of emotional depth with conversations. They also both have very low frustration tolerance.

I've worked with people who have Autism on the lower functioning side for a long time so I'm a little surprised I didn't pick up on this earlier (although obviously autism is very different to aspergers). We went to couples therapy because things were so bad (I was a full time student with a newborn and no help from husband). He made us quit therapy because he didn't like what the therapist had to say. Its been about 2 mths since we quit therapy and last week I called the therapist to ask if he thought my husband had Aspergers. He said its quite possible and listed a number of things to support that view. He said it may not be a good idea to tell my husband directly since he is so extremely defensive and instead I should address each issue separately and then take accountability for issues he has with me. The therapist also said knowledge about one's condition is very powerful and can help them overcome many of their difficulties. So I decided to ask my husband whether he was ever diagnosed or had a possible diagnosis of Aspergers when he was younger. He had told me that as a child he was very quiet and never spoke until adolescence when he received speech therapy. He said they tested him for things like ADHD but nothing showed up.

When I mentioned this possibility to him he started acting really strange and distant. I told him that I love him for who he is and would never abandon him over something like this. He always made fun of people with autism and aspergers so I can only imagine how he must have felt to hear this. I told him the negative things he sees in the media about people with aspergers are very isolated cases and most people are perfectly capable of functioning in relationships and society. Since I told him he has been acting even more distant than usual so I asked him what was up. He said that there is something seriously wrong with me and I need to get psychological help because I think he has Aspergers. He had an explanation for every sign or symptom that I mentioned and somehow managed to put it back on me and make it my fault.

Since I mentioned getting a divorce last year he has completely changed towards me and even more so now that I mentioned the Aspergers. He used to be affectionate and always tell me how beautiful I am. Now he doesn't even want to be around me and its like I'm just a room mate (or live in nanny). I do still love him but this relationship is killing me inside. He clearly loves our daughter and is wonderful at playing with her which makes it harder for me to leave him. I suggested couples therapy again with a different therapist but he said he will consider it only after I get help myself. I think he is scared that the therapist may pick up on the Aspergers so he is trying to avoid it. He doesn't want to get divorced but I don't see how we will move forward. I feel exhausted, lonely, and at a complete loss. Is there anyway to help him come to terms with this diagnosis? How likely is it to have a successful marriage when one partner has Aspergers? Any advice on what I should do?

Thanks,
Sarah


it sounds like the both of you have some mental issues that have not been dealt with. You married the guy and had a kid with him. Now you must decide if you will stick by him through the ups and downs or if you're going to divorce and go on to the next guy. Nobody's perfect.. that's why divorce rates are so high



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30 Jun 2014, 10:05 am

JacobV wrote:
You married the guy and had a kid with him. Now you must decide if you will stick by him through the ups and downs or if you're going to divorce and go on to the next guy. Nobody's perfect.. that's why divorce rates are so high


This sounds a bit off to me. The sequence seems to imply, or could be construed as implying, that divorce is a negative and that sticking by your spouse through the ups and downs is a positive. The "you married the guy" statement seems to imply some kind of blame or logical consequence. The idea seems to be something about responsibility, but it's unclear what it is. The one thing that seems reasonably sure is that it isn't a statement about it's overt content because we can already be reasonably confident that the OP knows that she married her husband and had a child with him. What is the implied subtext though? I can't really be sure, but it seems somewhat pejorative.

It seems to me that the ethical dimensions are a bit more complicated. What should be considered is some combination of
what is in the child's best interest?
what is in the OP's best interest?
what is in the husband's best interest?

A question could be what creates the most happiness and does the least harm?
It could be modified to: what course of action by the OP will create the most happiness for her daughter and do her daughter the least harm? She might then consider maximising her own happiness and freedom from harm and finally add consideration for her husband.

I think I would try to weight it that way. The needs of the child first, then the parents. But that is my system of values at work--yours may vary.



Last edited by Adamantium on 30 Jun 2014, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Jun 2014, 10:30 am

Quote:
he clearly felt really bad the next day. In fact he was in tears because he thought she would not want to be around him and that he had caused some type of emotional damage. This is the side of him that makes me want to stay. He clearly loves her and is remorseful about his actions.

This means nothing. Remorse is only valuable if it changes future behaviour and graveyards are full of battered victims whos partner or parent did the morning after tears repeatedly without changing the abusive outbursts. If you're trying to comfort this guy at these times by telling him its fine and his daughter loves him etc then you're doing all of you a disservice. He needs to hear that yes his actions do have consequences and he will damage the relationship with his daughter if he doesnt get a grip and start dealing with his frustration issues. He might have issues that he "cant help", but he CAN help himself by exploring those issues and seeking the help he needs to overcome them or deal with them better.



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30 Jun 2014, 3:10 pm

Adamantium wrote:
JacobV wrote:
You married the guy and had a kid with him. Now you must decide if you will stick by him through the ups and downs or if you're going to divorce and go on to the next guy. Nobody's perfect.. that's why divorce rates are so high


This sounds a bit off to me. The sequence seems to imply, or could be construed as implying, that divorce is a negative and that sticking by your spouse through the ups and downs is a positive. The "you married the guy" statement seems to imply some kind of blame or logical consequence. The idea seems to be something about responsibility, but it's unclear what it is. The one thing that seems reasonably sure is that it isn't a statement about it's overt content because we can already be reasonably confident that the OP knows that she married her husband and had a child with him. What is the implied subtext though? I can't really be sure, but it seems somewhat pejorative.

It seems to me that the ethical dimensions are a bit more complicated. What should be considered is some combination of
what is in the child's best interest?
what is in the OP's best interest?
what is in the husband's best interest?

A question could be what creates the most happiness and does the least harm?
It could be modified to: what course of action by the OP will create the most happiness for her daughter and do her daughter the least harm? She might then consider maximising her own happiness and freedom from harm and finally add consideration for her husband.

I think I would try to weight it that way. The needs of the child first, then the parents. But that is my system of values at work--yours may vary.


Thanks for picking my comment apart for analysis. You're right, I should've been a little clearer... IMHO... The child's best interest is to be raised by both biological parents. Nobody psychologically cares for the well being of a child more than their biological parents. The father is good to the kid... and he apparently *was* good to the mother for a good amount of time.. at least long enough to conceive with and raise em this far... giving up on someone because they are dealing with depression is not a sensible option.. Tough challenges come up in EVERY relationship... depression is a pretty obvious one that will rear its ugly head at least once at some point in EVERYONE's life. be it early on... midlife crisis... or end-of-life crisis... it's pretty much unavoidable.

I guess what I was trying to say is be strong and keep fighting.. or be weak and leave. There is no reason to divorce the guy after telling him "you need help!!" and at the same time act like you have no choice.. you ALWAYS have a choice.

But for pete's sakes let's be real here... There is no pride or respect in divorcing someone because they are experiencing an illness they cannot win against... this is like divorcing someone because they have cancer... is it more acceptable to divorce someone if their cancer is "too much to handle?" say stage 3 cancer.. unable to get out of bed, in constant pain, unable to provide or deliver intimate needs...

You cannot cure his depression, just like one cannot cure cancer... but emotional support makes a huge difference in that person's life and in their prognosis. Abandoning your spouse.. and most importantly your child's father... is going to hurt both the father and the child possibly in irreparable ways.

How can you leave someone in the midst of their illnesses and somehow think it's the right thing to do?

You will always find some friends and some psychologists who will YES you to death... just to take the pressure off you... for the sake of either keeping you as a client or keeping you as a friend... but at the end of the day this is a purely self-serving act meant to make your life easier by hurting others.



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30 Jun 2014, 3:21 pm

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How can you leave someone in the midst of their illnesses and somehow think it's the right thing to do?


If there is a behavioral component to the illness, leaving may well be a better option.

It is not necessarily a good thing for a child to grow up, for example, with an alcoholic, or a person who has violent psychotic breaks.

In this case we know that dad has an explosive temper. How bad is it? Hard to tell. But it's not a sure thing that it is in the best interest of the child to live with that. It may be. And it may be that he needs to learn new strategies for managing his emotional dysregulation and explosive temper.

The needs of the child must come before the needs of either parent.



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30 Jun 2014, 3:50 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Quote:
How can you leave someone in the midst of their illnesses and somehow think it's the right thing to do?


If there is a behavioral component to the illness, leaving may well be a better option.

It is not necessarily a good thing for a child to grow up, for example, with an alcoholic, or a person who has violent psychotic breaks.

In this case we know that dad has an explosive temper. How bad is it? Hard to tell. But it's not a sure thing that it is in the best interest of the child to live with that. It may be. And it may be that he needs to learn new strategies for managing his emotional dysregulation and explosive temper.

The needs of the child must come before the needs of either parent.


I couldn't agree with you more Adamantium. Can you imagine an aspie dealing with intimate rejection, child support, alimony, visitations, etc...? He may be depressed now but he will be damn near suicidal later.



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30 Jun 2014, 4:42 pm

JacobV wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Quote:
How can you leave someone in the midst of their illnesses and somehow think it's the right thing to do?


If there is a behavioral component to the illness, leaving may well be a better option.

It is not necessarily a good thing for a child to grow up, for example, with an alcoholic, or a person who has violent psychotic breaks.

In this case we know that dad has an explosive temper. How bad is it? Hard to tell. But it's not a sure thing that it is in the best interest of the child to live with that. It may be. And it may be that he needs to learn new strategies for managing his emotional dysregulation and explosive temper.

The needs of the child must come before the needs of either parent.


I couldn't agree with you more Adamantium. Can you imagine an aspie dealing with intimate rejection, child support, alimony, visitations, etc...? He may be depressed now but he will be damn near suicidal later.


If suicide is a risk, this would also be something to factor into the ethical consideration. It is highly unlikely that a father's suicide after a divorce would have a positive impact on a child with whom he has a good relationship.

The scenario in which she would say "thanks for pushing dad over the edge, mom" is difficult to imagine.

On the other hand, "you have to let me scream at the kid, or I'll off myself" is not a persuasive argument, either.

Mom may need a lot of therapy before she is can think clearly about her options in any case.