Fake NT?

Post Reply New Topic

I think it is absolutely fake because it has no basis in reality.
If you think it does, then you just haven't reverse engineered the process far enough.

Faking "NT" is something some of us learn, and some of us don't. I was sort of forced to learn it growing up just so that I could "fit in" and get by, though I've let a lot of that go over the last few years, as it's a really hard thing to do all the time when you have other pressures in your life. I was more functional and social when I was younger, though I was also clearly behind my peers when it came to things like seeking employment, learning to drive, and getting a girlfriend. It didn't matter so much when I was 14/15/16 years old, but when I was around 17/18 years old, it became a lot more obvious, and it just kept getting worse as I got older.

The NT world sucks, especially where I live, and though a lot of people here swear that we have the world's best standard of living and all that crap, I don't believe a lick of it. Sure, it's a good standard of living if you're a materialistic, uber-masculine rig pig, but I would much rather live somewhere more laid back, like Europe or BC. The overall cost of living may be higher, but it would be worth it just to get out of the hyper-competitive culture I'm stuck in the middle of.

The NT's do it also statements are absolutely true and a dangerously misleading thing to say to autistics (and others) if left without further explanation. In general the amount autistics have to deviate from their natural selves to be functional is much more the NT's. Even more importantly in my view is the percentage of their waking hours that Autistics need to do it. This causes all sorts of mental and psychical problems which in a cruel irony make it easier to slip up thus undoing months/years of painstaking effort and long term leads to burnout.

In order to fake it one has to be aware one is deviating. If a person is not aware there are two possibilities. They have learned the technique so well it is part of them. They are unintentionally faking themselves/ have lost touch with reality. This unlike autism is a mental disorder. After decades of acting I am unsure in some cases what is a new part of me and what is faking myself. I do not look at it as a good thing. Yet to be functional I still have to engage in the faking behaviors that caused my problems. Unlike before I now am aware I am doing it which I hope will allow me to stop or pause before it causes more problems.

I feel there is a lot of "attacking" on this thread of the fundamental phenomenon of "faking" and the people who have felt the need to do it.

I feel that you guys are judging people like me who have posted that they do do this and that do it because they have felt they must.

That's not acceptable.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you judge them for something they have believed they truly HAD TO DO in order for their lives to NOT be even worse than they are.

And I never said it was a good thing.

I also never said I was good AT it -- I just feel that my attempts to more closely emulate accepted behavior has helped me slide by in life better than if I hadn't attempted anything at all -- especially in professional life.

I never said it's healthy. It horribly unhealthy, and it DOES exhaust me, but there's the rub. There's the problem. The fact that someone like me has still felt that in order not to have my life and my interactions with the people I've been forced to deal with be even worse, I've needed to modify myself.

Some of you guys have an enormous amount of help around you. Some don't but I'm addressing those who do. If you have state benefits/welfare help, and/or live at home with family or friends, or are supported financially by them or someone else.

Good for you, I don't criticize that one little bit, because I think it's wonderful that you have been able to have that help in order to live your life.

But guess what -- some others of us have had only ourselves to lean on. I have zero family. I have literally nobody in life. I have no welfare or benefits aside from some tax department help because my income isn't quite high enough. I have to go out and work for a living.

I know that many of you do too, even those who say you never fake anything and that you are yourselves, and your co-workers accept you.

Again, that's great. I'm glad that that is actually the case for some people.

But it hasn't been the case for me. Things have gone a lot more smoothly for me when I've made efforts to suppress my real impulses, my sensory overloads, and other spectrum issues that, if I'd been open about them, would have created MUCH more misunderstanding in my life than simply keeping it all a deadly secret.

Keeping it all a secret is what I really mean by "faking NT."

And not a one of you have any right to judge me for that or tell me I shouldn't be doing it. I'm 52 and I've had a lifetime of struggling to cope and this is the way I've done it, whether you like it or not, and whether that's a good thing or not.

The most important thing:
I've NEVER received the help and support I've really needed, so, failing that, I'VE HAD TO FIT IN.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's been my reality, and f**k you if you judge me for it. Instead you should have compassion for the fact that that is pretty f*****g sad, but well done me for managing to have some kind of life anyway.

Sorry, but you judgemental people have made me really angry about this. You don't know what I've had to do just to survive.

As for "NTs fake things too" -- YES, THEY f*****g DO.

Even an NT has days where they feel sad but put on a happy front just to keep their sadness private and not burden other people or co-workers.

Even NTs are polite and friendly to an acquaintance they really don't like, because it's easier than ruining someone's party or gathering or wedding etc.

These are just a couple of examples of what I mean when I say "everyone fakes something sometimes."

The whole world operates on SOME covering up of true emotions; on politeness that isn't always felt inside, on white lies, on social "smoothing of the way."

I'm not very GOOD at any of this crap but YES I've had to TRY to employ it.

.

I would agree with ASPartofMe that an explanation is required, that it is more difficult for an autistic person to fake it, and that it could cause problems down the road.

This is what I will seek to do when and if I become a "transitions counselor": provide an explanation.

However, I am still of the opinion that one (I mean everyone) must "fake it" at times whenever they are outside of their intimate surroundings.

I wholeheartedly agree with BirdInFlight that one must not be judged for "faking it" if it means earning a living and surviving.

I would also agree with MathGirl's take on it: that "faking it" really, with at least some frequency, is a reflection of the acquisition of adaptive skills--
And, therefore, not really "faking it" per se, because this "acquisition of skills" becomes a TRUE part of a person's makeup.

^ Above two posts are very strongly resonating with me, despite the age gaps.

_________________
Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk

i believe there absolutely is a need to fake NT.

i get no support for being on the spectrum, and people just dismiss it or tease me about it if i tell them, if i let myself act like im autistic i will not be able to get a job, make friends, or function in everyday life. Somethings i cannot change, like my sensitivities to light, sound and touch, or the fact that if i get overwhelmed i need time to myself, however long that takes, so i cant become an NT at the snap of my fingers, but i can use the social skills i learned to get a job or gain friends if i desire any, yes that even means trying my best to make eye contact, (learned some tricks). but ill say it again, i cant change everything. my struggles will always be there, but with practice i can and will cover up some small struggles with tactics, skills and knowledge.

Something I would like to point out is that autistic nature is actually the fake part to an extent. Had you not been born with autism you would be different and in a sense what you were meant to be. Autism is a disability, granted for some very light, and for others with valuable compensating abilities, but a distortion nevertheless of what you would have been had you developed normally.

So learning to be more NT, is not really fake in my eyes, as much as getting closer to your original design, and in a way the real you. But maybe it is better said we have a duality, and two real versions... what we are out of the box and autistic, and also what we can be by teaching ourselves to think and behave NT.

I am not ashamed to be autistic, as I accept what it is both good and bad, but neither am I ashamed when I can be something closer to what I would have been had I not had this condition. I value both. I have accomplished very important personal goals using both natures, sometimes seperately.

I think Jacob Bronowski said this best as:

"If it were not for those young monkeys playing badly, and not fitting into the mold they were born to be in, then the species would have never progressed. "


At its core we're talking about the basic difference between a system intelligence (NT) and an individual intelligence (ASD).

It's not being born a certain way that is the complete issue of determination.
It's being born a certain way into a certain environment.

Lots of life forms use deception and mimicry in order to survive certain aggressive environments.

However, for most people simply surviving is not enough and they engage in the conceptual game of social hierarchies.
I'm not attacking anyone by saying this. It just is what it is, and technically it is fake.

Social hierarchies have no base in reality, but are often confused as being real because they certainly have real consequences in reality.

I don't think I have much ability to fake anything. And I've always felt like that is what sets me apart from most people. NTs have more of an ability to fake their way through things when they need to. They can fake their way through social BS on the fly without becoming totally confused or exhausted by it.

It's not so much about "faking NT" as it is that the NT social world is just built on fakery and illusions and BS to begin with.

What I do is just a matter of trying to blend in to the background or suppress myself from doing things that would startle or upset people or draw a lot of attention to myself. That takes quite a bit of energy and concentration so I don't have any energy left over to think of faking anything.

I haven't noticed any attacking or judging on this thread.
When I used the term 'faking' I meant copying or mimicking others.
Many people on this forum have said they learned to copy others as a way of fitting in.
I'm not faking it when I am polite and kind to people. That is my nature.
I have no problem with being nice and considerate of others. Everyone has to do that.
When I was young I wasn't always polite and kind but that was because I didn't realize that my behavior could have an affect on other people. I didn't realize I could hurt someone's feelings. I had to learn that.
But I really can't copy other people. I can't mimic their personalities or the way they relate to each other.
It never occurred to me to mimic other people or to monitor my own body language, mannerisms and eye contact to appear normal.
I didn't have enough self awareness to do any of that.
I am nice in my own way and that gets me by, but my life has been no less of a struggle than the others posters here.