The Rules of the Friendzone

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20 Aug 2014, 9:11 pm

There are quite a few friends or acquaintances I have that I hang out with through my meetup. I don't take phone numbers from ladies, and I might take Facebook friend invites if I believe there won't be any trouble. I had one person I met that was obviously interested in me, and I had to turn down the Facebook invite for that reason.... and the fact that she appeared to be topless in her profile photo. What else would get me into trouble with the gf?

Some guys and girls won't take our phone numbers or hang out with either of us outside of meetup because they might have a problem with the fact we are dating. When figuring out which friends to hang out with, we don't want to put ourselves in a position where things are going to be awkward. I have elected not to call certain friends anymore because I kinda gathered they might have an issue with my relationship. If they wanted to get together, they would text me the night a big group of us were hanging out to figure out where everyone is. If they wanted to talk and catch up a little, we would do it then.

Part of the problem is simple... you have to be able to trust people to hang out with them. If you can't trust them, you don't bother with them. i will not be more black and white here.

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CommanderKeen
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21 Aug 2014, 12:08 pm

Geekonychus wrote:

Based on your attitude here, it doesn't surprise me that your female "friends" don't want to hang with you. Guys who use terms like "friendzone" unironically tend to be very bitter, jealous, mysogonisticly entitled, have boundry issues and tend not to actually want to be friends (i.e. have ulterior motives.) Even if the latter three things don't apply to you, there's a clear abundance of bitterness and jealousy coming from you in this thread and if any of that comes across IRL when you're around girls that would likely be a huge red flag.

This isn't even an AS thing as even you seem to know the boundries (or claim to) but just dislike them.

Right now the ratio in my social circle is about 50/50 male/female. Yes, unrequited attraction is one of the risks opposite sex friendships (I've expereinced it on both sides) but if they are truly friends, there wouldn't be any "zone" attached to the title.

Fact of the matter is that opposite sex friendships can and do happen all the time. If all these girls refuse to hang out with you, sure it may be a coincidence, but thats not very likely. You can blame society and the female sex all you want, but so far the only clear common denominator accross all of them is you. If your friends espouse similiar attitudes they will likely struggle as well.

I suggest you read a few articles so you can drop this friendzone nonesense for your own good. I don't think most guys have any idea just how toxic such a mindset can be and how obvious it can be to those around you. Go to far down this road and you could go from being merely awkward to being practicly undateable.

Here's a good place to start:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/06/friend-zone-myth/

Doc Nerdlove gives good advice specifically for the socially awkward.

Well, we have to think of it from his perspective. Why wouldn't he be bitter from lack of success? The bitterness comes from lack of success and not the other way around. Also, how is it toxic for anyone but him? Bitterness isn't a disease. The only person he's hurting is himself. Those women he's encountered were just not attracted to him from the start. So, instead of telling him about how the friend zone doesn't exist it would be more productive to tell him to talk to different kinds of women, then he has been talking to. I made a post about this in the "I feel second best to other men thread".

Geekonychus
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22 Aug 2014, 3:24 pm

CommanderKeen wrote:

Geekonychus wrote:

Yes the only person he's hurting is himself. But he's not going to be able to change his attitude until he is actually aware that his attitude is the issue. As it stands now, he seems to believe it's everyone else but him that's the issue. Finding different girls to talk to isn't going to help if he projects a bitter, entitled, "Nice Guy (TM)" vibe all the time. An otherwise compatible woman would be repelled pretty much instantly so your advice is basically moot till he gets this first step out of the way.

yellowtamarin
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22 Aug 2014, 8:17 pm

aspiemike wrote:

I don't think friendship is supposed to be that hard...

CommanderKeen
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23 Aug 2014, 9:01 am

Geekonychus wrote:

CommanderKeen wrote:

Geekonychus wrote:

I'm not sure, if that was meant to come off mean, or not. Anyway, he'll be able to change his view,but not fully until his luck changes. I used to be very bitter, then women started flirting with me. After that my attitude did change. You just can't tell someone "well don't be depressed." it doesn't work that way. What he has to do is go out and not expect anything. That and work on his on confidence independent of trying to talk to girls. That's why bodybuilding works so well for guys. It allows you to build yourself up physically, which then translate into building a better character. More strength equates to more confidence. I'm not saying that'll work for him, but it's an easy fix. That's not just the case for me, but for many of my guy friends. I think it's very hard for men to take advice from women, or women to take advice from men when it comes to dealing with the opposite gender. Obviously they're going to have different views and different ways of thinking. Oh, and last piece of advice for him, don't care. What I mean to say is, don't worry about reject, don't worry if a girl likes you, don't even worry about messing anything up. That's why it's so good to have hobbies. With me if I get rejected, I can just think something like "Oh well atleast now I have more time to watch Doctor Who then talk to her." Little mental tricks I've learned over the years, that actually work quite well. Also "Nice Guy (TM)"?

tarantella64
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23 Aug 2014, 6:14 pm

The "nice guy" is the one who's ragingly embittered because being nice is not resulting in sex, as though nice buys sex. As though nice *deserves* sex and is entitled to it. And he goes around whining about what a nice guy he is and how women suck because they go for jerks instead of him, never noticing that he's being a tremendous jerk himself.

If a guy can't go and hang with women without that bitterness and entitled attitude, he just shouldn't hang with women at all. Because you know what? We can feel it, and it sucks. I couldn't even count the number of men I've sat talking with and walked away feeling poisoned by the ugliness of the mixed message: "you're kind of cool and smart and I enjoy talking to you"/"I hate you because you're a b***h who'd shoot me down in a nanosecond and never take off your panties for me."

It's toxic. I never did a damned thing to the fellow, and there I sit getting that beamed at me. And I hate it that someday I'll have to tell my daughter, yeah, this is a thing that happens, and if it happens to you again, where you just feel a weird and bitter vibe from a guy who's also being nice...just walk away. Get up, make your excuse, go, and don't take his messages, don't hang out with him again. Yes, he'll think you're a b***h, but that'll likely be the case regardless, and more to the point what he thinks of you doesn't matter.

You're right, the only way it changes is to become self-confident and also to expect nothing -- and to understand that you're not owed sex, that there aren't "turns" and it's now "your turn" and a girl is supposed to be provided somehow.

billiscool
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23 Aug 2014, 6:33 pm

where does the OP ever come across as being a Nice guyTM?
he just upset his female ''friends''won't hang out with him

CommanderKeen
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23 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

Well if a guy is thinking like that, that means he's putting the girl as his highest priority. Plan hanging out with a girl around your day, don't plan your day around hanging out with a girl. This could also apply for both sexes. Never make hanging out with the opposite sex a top priority, unless you're in a committed relationship with them already.

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23 Aug 2014, 8:33 pm

billiscool wrote:

where does the OP ever come across as being a Nice guyTM?
he just upset his female ''friends''won't hang out with him

Good point.

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23 Aug 2014, 9:05 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

There isn't a friendzone.

A girl doesn't "put you in the friendzone". She doesn't want a romantic relationship with you, that's all. But she hasn't done anything to or with you by not wanting that.

Yes,there is,However most of the times,guys that complain that they were put
in the ''friendzone''are not actual in the ''friendzone''

friendzone is mostly fake.

OrangeCowboy
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24 Aug 2014, 2:48 pm

Okay, a lot of you totally have the wrong idea about me. I don't feel entitled to sex from anybody. My frustration really is that none of my female friends hang out with me. In actuality, my male friends hang out with me fairly rarely, but not as rarely. Even girls who explicitly know I'm not attracted to them "in that way" also don't like hanging out with me. I feel no bitterness towards the ladies who don't want to hang out with me, just with my fate. My frustration is I really with the fact that I couldn't figure out the "whys" as to why mixed-gendered hangouts are rare where I live. I postulate it's because I live in a super socially conservative region of the US.

I guess the "Orange Cowboy is a butthole" idea came from my misuse of vocabulary. I used "friendzone" to mean "the state of just being a friend with the opposite gender and a set of restrictions which may or may not exist related to being in that state" (I've received mutually contradictory evidence from posters as to whether or not these restrictions exist). The connotations of the term referring to a feeling of entitlement and all those other things weren't on my mind. I guess I meant for this thread to be called, "Is it a taboo for people who are the state of just being friends (which I incorrectly referred to as the friendzone) to hang out, or are my observations flawed?"

LyraLuthTinu
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27 Aug 2014, 9:31 pm

CommanderKeen wrote:

Um, no. He is not making the girl his top priority. He is making having sex with the girl his top priority, whether she wants to have sex with him or not.

Wanting what's best for a girl is not the same thing as wanting to have sex with the girl.

That is the difference between love and lust.

Between agape and eros

End Greek 101 lesson.

OrangeCowboy:

Quote:

I used "friendzone" to mean "the state of just being a friend with the opposite gender and a set of restrictions which may or may not exist related to being in that state" (I've received mutually contradictory evidence from posters as to whether or not these restrictions exist). The connotations of the term referring to a feeling of entitlement and all those other things weren't on my mind. I guess I meant for this thread to be called, "Is it a taboo for people who are the state of just being friends (which I incorrectly referred to as the friendzone) to hang out, or are my observations flawed?"

In this case you definitely used the word friendzone wrong. That word is all about wanting sex and not getting it.

You should have used a word like platonic somewhere--as in, I have friends who are guys to hang out with. I wish I had a platonic relationship with a girl or two because I'd like my social life to be more gender balanced. Girls are cool, I wish they would be my friends.

If you were in the "friendzone," the girls who ignore you would hang out with you. They'd just get a bit stand-offish if you tried flirting with them instead of keeping the relationship platonic.

Oy, I feel like a schoolteacher! :oops:

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Shebakoby
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30 Aug 2014, 5:20 am

I have never, ever seen this rare breed of man who bes the nice guy and then feels entitled to things (like sex) in the wild.

Come to think of it, I've never seen the other kind of "nice guy" either.

minervx
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30 Aug 2014, 4:09 pm

As someone who is guilty of nitpicking the smaller facets of social interactions myself, I think counting the amount of hugs you're allowed in a friend zone is way too overanalyzing.

The way I see the friendzone:

1) If you were already friends with the girl before you asked her out, you're still friends with her as usual (so long as it isn't too awkward)

2) If you weren't friends with her already, you ask her out and she says "let's be friends", she's just being polite. She doesn't actually expect you to be her friend. You two just move on and part ways.

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30 Aug 2014, 9:36 pm

minervx wrote:

I don't necessarily agree with point 2. Sometimes a guy will ask me out fairly quickly, we haven't yet gotten to the point where I would calls us friends (maybe we spent a few hours socialising together or met once or twice briefly). I can sometimes tell at this point that I am not romantically attracted to them, but that we seem to get along quite well and I think it would be nice to keep hanging out, if he wants to. I think the way to tell is, does she say "let's be friends" then never speak to you again, or does she say "I'm having fun hanging out with you, though" and suggest/allow another catchup? In the first instance she is probably being polite, in the second instance she probably means it.

(Not that we are even supposed to be talking about this in this thread...it's just about a guy hanging out with female friends. Sorry.)

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