Why women lose the dating game

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autismthinker21
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26 Aug 2014, 1:22 pm

HisMom wrote:
beer1982 wrote:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html

I would like to hear womans persect on this article. Is there any truth to it?


This article makes a lot of assumptions and some sweeping generalizations !

(1) Not all women want alpha males. Truth be told, alpha males can also be as*holes. Not always but at least some of the time. I, personally, would much rather go with a guy who was a beta male - a sweet, pleasant-natured man who was easy to get along with and easy to love (especially the latter) ! No amount of money or alpha status would make it easy or happy to live with someone with a personality disorder or serious character flaws.

(2) Where a man is when a woman first meets him is where he is always going to be or will always be. In other words, a man's position in the social ladder will never go up or go down, it will always be at that exact same rung where he was when he meets his woman. What BS ! !

I am sure that many people have anecdotal evidences to the contrary - about how their sister's nephew-by-marriage's brother-in-law's cousin's daughter got together with a bum on the street when she was 20, but how now, 15 years later, they are living it up in a high rise in Manhattan. Now this may be a bit extreme, but it illustrates the point that partners can and do motivate each other to either move up the ladder, or to fall into the very same pit that they themselves infest. Such as a drug addict ex-con boyfriend that ends up turning a "good girl" into a fellow druggie, or a woman who nagged her husband into a gambling problem, because he could find no other way to satisfy his wife's constant demand for more and more and more money.

(3) A woman - even a highly educated, well paid professional - needs a man to make her life whole / complete / blah blah blah. Misogynistic, much ?

(4) A woman needs a man to produce a baby and complete her family. More misogyny, again. No, she doesn't. There are several billion Homo sapiens wandering the Planet today. The species is not to going to go extinct because some women chose not to reproduce. On that same note, ever wondered why an "elderly bachelor" is an object of utter respect while an "elderly spinster" is an object of scorn / ridicule ? Why is only the woman assumed to "be on the shelf" only because no one asked to marry her ? Maybe no woman wanted to marry the "bachelor", either ! HYPOCRITES, BAH !

And, even if you assume that some women can and do long for babies to "complete" their families, well, then, isn't that why sperm banks exist ?

In a nutshell -- if it was my daughter, I wouldn't want her to pick a man just because he is a 6'2" handsome Economics professor, making a 6 figure income, an obvious "catch" who gets emails signed off in kisses by desperate single female colleagues. I would want her to pick her best friend who was pleasant, easy going, loved her, who had a plan for his life and a means to achieve that plan. Yeah, sure, it would be great if he was already a handsome, rich professional when they met, but I would not to want her to dismiss anyone who has the potential, who has good, solid character, and a great personality, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE (and I will telling her this repeatedly) where he is *today* may be *very different* from where he may well be 10 years, marriage, and a couple of kids, later.

BTW, I didn't know that academicians, even fully tenured academicians, made 6 figures ! I always thought that professors had an average income so this is quite the revelation for me !



well pretty much the parents decide what they want out of their kids and their choices affect their decisions on what she/he believes from the parent. parents usually have a better way of making things sense then their teen/adult trying to find that person. yep your correct hismom.


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sly279
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26 Aug 2014, 4:20 pm

HisMom wrote:
beer1982 wrote:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html

I would like to hear womans persect on this article. Is there any truth to it?


This article makes a lot of assumptions and some sweeping generalizations !

(1) Not all women want alpha males. Truth be told, alpha males can also be as*holes. Not always but at least some of the time. I, personally, would much rather go with a guy who was a beta male - a sweet, pleasant-natured man who was easy to get along with and easy to love (especially the latter) ! No amount of money or alpha status would make it easy or happy to live with someone with a personality disorder or serious character flaws.

(2) Where a man is when a woman first meets him is where he is always going to be or will always be. In other words, a man's position in the social ladder will never go up or go down, it will always be at that exact same rung where he was when he meets his woman. What BS ! !

I am sure that many people have anecdotal evidences to the contrary - about how their sister's nephew-by-marriage's brother-in-law's cousin's daughter got together with a bum on the street when she was 20, but how now, 15 years later, they are living it up in a high rise in Manhattan. Now this may be a bit extreme, but it illustrates the point that partners can and do motivate each other to either move up the ladder, or to fall into the very same pit that they themselves infest. Such as a drug addict ex-con boyfriend that ends up turning a "good girl" into a fellow druggie, or a woman who nagged her husband into a gambling problem, because he could find no other way to satisfy his wife's constant demand for more and more and more money.

(3) A woman - even a highly educated, well paid professional - needs a man to make her life whole / complete / blah blah blah. Misogynistic, much ?

(4) A woman needs a man to produce a baby and complete her family. More misogyny, again. No, she doesn't. There are several billion Homo sapiens wandering the Planet today. The species is not to going to go extinct because some women chose not to reproduce. On that same note, ever wondered why an "elderly bachelor" is an object of utter respect while an "elderly spinster" is an object of scorn / ridicule ? Why is only the woman assumed to "be on the shelf" only because no one asked to marry her ? Maybe no woman wanted to marry the "bachelor", either ! HYPOCRITES, BAH !

And, even if you assume that some women can and do long for babies to "complete" their families, well, then, isn't that why sperm banks exist ?

In a nutshell -- if it was my daughter, I wouldn't want her to pick a man just because he is a 6'2" handsome Economics professor, making a 6 figure income, an obvious "catch" who gets emails signed off in kisses by desperate single female colleagues. I would want her to pick her best friend who was pleasant, easy going, loved her, who had a plan for his life and a means to achieve that plan. Yeah, sure, it would be great if he was already a handsome, rich professional when they met, but I would not to want her to dismiss anyone who has the potential, who has good, solid character, and a great personality, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE (and I will telling her this repeatedly) where he is *today* may be *very different* from where he may well be 10 years, marriage, and a couple of kids, later.

BTW, I didn't know that academicians, even fully tenured academicians, made 6 figures ! I always thought that professors had an average income so this is quite the revelation for me !


Why is this so important to women why???



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26 Aug 2014, 4:55 pm

sly279 wrote:
HisMom wrote:
who had a plan for his life and a means to achieve that plan.


Why is this so important to women why???


I'm not a woman, but the answer seems simple to me: it's more predictable and therefore safer. If you're going to be a partner in someone's life, you'd want to know where that life is going, right? Because wherever it's going, you're going with it! There is never any certainty, but someone with a good plan is a safer bet than someone without. (HisMom didn't actually say a "good" plan, but I think we can infer that a guy with a life plan involving robbing banks until he's rich is not what she meant.)


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26 Aug 2014, 7:18 pm

FMX wrote:
sly279 wrote:
HisMom wrote:
who had a plan for his life and a means to achieve that plan.


Why is this so important to women why???


I'm not a woman, but the answer seems simple to me: it's more predictable and therefore safer. If you're going to be a partner in someone's life, you'd want to know where that life is going, right? Because wherever it's going, you're going with it! There is never any certainty, but someone with a good plan is a safer bet than someone without. (HisMom didn't actually say a "good" plan, but I think we can infer that a guy with a life plan involving robbing banks until he's rich is not what she meant.)


Girlfriend here did mention that she would never stick around a man who showed no plan in their life or any intention to act on his plan. This could indicate a lack of confidence in that man.


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26 Aug 2014, 9:14 pm

aspiemike wrote:
FMX wrote:
sly279 wrote:
HisMom wrote:
who had a plan for his life and a means to achieve that plan.


Why is this so important to women why???


I'm not a woman, but the answer seems simple to me: it's more predictable and therefore safer. If you're going to be a partner in someone's life, you'd want to know where that life is going, right? Because wherever it's going, you're going with it! There is never any certainty, but someone with a good plan is a safer bet than someone without. (HisMom didn't actually say a "good" plan, but I think we can infer that a guy with a life plan involving robbing banks until he's rich is not what she meant.)


Girlfriend here did mention that she would never stick around a man who showed no plan in their life or any intention to act on his plan. This could indicate a lack of confidence in that man.


I don't plan past a few months . I prefer to try to enjoy my life rather then spending my whole life slaving away to me some job goal.

Why I'm going have to kill myself. I can't be that society working hard and dedicating my whole life to be a doctor or a judge or etc

Confidence is thinking you can do something while not having a plan could just mean you don't want to do that thing

Makes me wonder why I put of killing myself doesn't seem like the problem will change as I don't want to conform to society and society is materialistic



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26 Aug 2014, 9:45 pm

Yup. Unless you're just going to drift -- which is not a good idea, especially if you're responsible for making your own way -- it's important to be with someone who not only has plans, goals, a general direction in life, but can see things through. Otherwise his aimlessness just plays havoc with your own life. The two of you decide, okay, you're doing _____, and then five months later, or two years later, as you're doing all the heavy lifting of making this happen, you say hey, a little effort, pls. And he says oh he never really was into it all that much. Or he all of a sudden decides he wants to move 1000 miles away, and you've just got things going well where you are. Bad idea.

Planning doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your work, but it does mean understanding that some things are unavoidable: you'll get sick, you'll get old, you'll need a roof, if you have kids they'll need things. So you think ahead, and think also of the things you want to do while you're on the planet, and you plan so you have a reasonable chance, and so you can handle bumps in the road.

A plan also tells volumes about what you value, and that's an important thing to know.



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27 Aug 2014, 6:36 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Yup. Unless you're just going to drift -- which is not a good idea, especially if you're responsible for making your own way -- it's important to be with someone who not only has plans, goals, a general direction in life, but can see things through. Otherwise his aimlessness just plays havoc with your own life. The two of you decide, okay, you're doing _____, and then five months later, or two years later, as you're doing all the heavy lifting of making this happen, you say hey, a little effort, pls. And he says oh he never really was into it all that much. Or he all of a sudden decides he wants to move 1000 miles away, and you've just got things going well where you are. Bad idea.

Planning doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your work, but it does mean understanding that some things are unavoidable: you'll get sick, you'll get old, you'll need a roof, if you have kids they'll need things. So you think ahead, and think also of the things you want to do while you're on the planet, and you plan so you have a reasonable chance, and so you can handle bumps in the road.

A plan also tells volumes about what you value, and that's an important thing to know.

QFT

My trouble is all my plans got upended. I'm STILL working on a new plan, and I'm fortunate enough to have a supportive wife. She'd actually be thrilled if I gave up private teaching and focused on homeschooling the kids. I just feel that if I'm persistent enough I can do a little bit better for my family than that.



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28 Aug 2014, 2:10 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Yup. Unless you're just going to drift -- which is not a good idea, especially if you're responsible for making your own way -- it's important to be with someone who not only has plans, goals, a general direction in life, but can see things through. Otherwise his aimlessness just plays havoc with your own life. The two of you decide, okay, you're doing _____, and then five months later, or two years later, as you're doing all the heavy lifting of making this happen, you say hey, a little effort, pls. And he says oh he never really was into it all that much. Or he all of a sudden decides he wants to move 1000 miles away, and you've just got things going well where you are. Bad idea.

Planning doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your work, but it does mean understanding that some things are unavoidable: you'll get sick, you'll get old, you'll need a roof, if you have kids they'll need things. So you think ahead, and think also of the things you want to do while you're on the planet, and you plan so you have a reasonable chance, and so you can handle bumps in the road.

A plan also tells volumes about what you value, and that's an important thing to know.


I don't drift. I've never been out of my state. I do the lame responsibly stuff and I am content staying where I am. I stay loyal to my commitments. I finished school even though it was pointless. I help people out when I say I would even though I really don't want to.
I just don't have this master plan of what I want to be doing 20 years from now. or "in 5 years I going be the store manager"

my goal for employment is to find a job any job, that I can do. though I now have to try to find the most high paying job just to appease women. meh. I't probably be best to start out in a part time job where I don't feel dead tired by the end of the day, but meh that won't get me the ability to message women. so told my voc rehab person I want to find full time. I just won't live 5 days a week.

noticed you said he, so its mainly a guy thing which seems to be backed up by dating sites that or the women like that just don't bother with dating or dont use dating sites.

as a poor person who knows other poorish to middle class people. we don't plan ahead as we make it month to month, s**t happens a lot to us. we just deal with it and make it month to month. we save what we can which isn't much. I have a small saving for emergencies.
I don't really have long term wants . i live for now I guess. I want a job and would like a gf in the future. though the 2nd is unlikely so I guess I'll just buy more guns and kill myself at or before 35. they bring me temp happiness. mini christmas every so often. I'd rather have a gf and family but meh. I just a horrible person with no career ambition or long term plan

also i've had to save over a while to get the things I have. so that isn't anything new to me. i think the whole have his life together is just code for be a carreer guy who makes good money or going to in the future.

all I have to look forward to is a awful job that sucks most of my happiness and life away all in the hopes of making some girl see me as ok to consider dating. rather then doing something that makes me happy. I looked at the guys on dating sites and cl and almost non of them list this as a requirement for a woman to have for dating. yet almost all the women list it.

whats so wrong with a guys plan being to just enjoy life find a job and work. :(



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28 Aug 2014, 2:16 am

AngelRho wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Yup. Unless you're just going to drift -- which is not a good idea, especially if you're responsible for making your own way -- it's important to be with someone who not only has plans, goals, a general direction in life, but can see things through. Otherwise his aimlessness just plays havoc with your own life. The two of you decide, okay, you're doing _____, and then five months later, or two years later, as you're doing all the heavy lifting of making this happen, you say hey, a little effort, pls. And he says oh he never really was into it all that much. Or he all of a sudden decides he wants to move 1000 miles away, and you've just got things going well where you are. Bad idea.

Planning doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your work, but it does mean understanding that some things are unavoidable: you'll get sick, you'll get old, you'll need a roof, if you have kids they'll need things. So you think ahead, and think also of the things you want to do while you're on the planet, and you plan so you have a reasonable chance, and so you can handle bumps in the road.

A plan also tells volumes about what you value, and that's an important thing to know.

QFT

My trouble is all my plans got upended. I'm STILL working on a new plan, and I'm fortunate enough to have a supportive wife. She'd actually be thrilled if I gave up private teaching and focused on homeschooling the kids. I just feel that if I'm persistent enough I can do a little bit better for my family than that.


I hate persistent . lot of good that's done me. life been easier if I just give up and not tried. yet I can't stop trying. :'(

hope yours gets you somewhere.



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28 Aug 2014, 3:14 am

Upended plans are par. Trust me, I didn't plan to be a single mom a thousand miles from home. Nor for that matter did I plan to spend 15 years with science or be a landlord, or survivor of a suicide, or a bunch of other things. The important thing's the impulse to regroup and make a new and realistic plan, and keep moving.



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28 Aug 2014, 5:21 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Upended plans are par. Trust me, I didn't plan to be a single mom a thousand miles from home. Nor for that matter did I plan to spend 15 years with science or be a landlord, or survivor of a suicide, or a bunch of other things. The important thing's the impulse to regroup and make a new and realistic plan, and keep moving.

Exactly. And this is in part a reply to sly, as well:

My approach to planning is largely just to at least have one. I'm not convinced that many "plans" actually succeed, but mostly what I've learned to do is reevaluate day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, year-to-year, and "dream" about where I want to be in 5 years. If I the direction I "picked out" isn't working, I can always make adjustments. I'm not so stuck on a single grandiose goal that if I fail to reach it my who world falls apart. But my whole world WILL fall apart if I don't do SOMETHING.

I too often find that my new plans aren't realistic, and understanding what IS realistic has been a struggle. Even if I never reach my "BIG" goals, it's still satisfying to look back and see what I DID do. I've been trying to do an album release for over a year now. At this point I can't say that it's going to happen this year. The work I've done over the course of a year is still pretty impressive, though, and there's always next year. If I "give up" right now FOR now, all that means is I can spend another 12 months polishing what I have, saving a little extra money to budget for professional mastering, practicing and memorizing my music for the promo tour, and keep writing new material so new projects won't take THIS long.

Persistence DOES pay off. You just have to be flexible and willing to understand that the payoff might not be what you expect. You'll get more return on your persistence if you are grateful for what you DO get rather than what you want. Tarantella mentioned a key word: "Realistic." Balancing realistic goals with your values is tricky, at least for me. Figure out how to do that and you've got that magic formula! You won't even approach that if you don't keep trying.



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28 Aug 2014, 5:44 am

sly279 wrote:
whats so wrong with a guys plan being to just enjoy life find a job and work. :(

Fundamentally that's a good plan. Nothing wrong with that. The trouble is it's a plan for a single guy. You're not including anyone else there.

A plan that includes relationships is founded on different values than "just enjoy life." I don't value another person's happiness because I know I can't make anyone happy. I do value working alongside others to help them reach THEIR goals, which often will require me to sacrifice things I want. Sure, I want things in life, but if they never happen for me, I'll be ok. The kinds of things I want for ME aren't all THAT important.

I wonder if your desire for a gf is really inline with your own values or if it's a societal pressure you're feeling. I find I'm happier when I learn to just let go of things that really aren't important to me. If I can't reach a goal, whether it's a material goal or a relational one, or whatever, I ask myself how badly I really want it and how important it REALLY is to me in life. I also ask WHY I'm working so hard for something that seems unattainable. If there's no significant reason, if I don't value those things, and I don't want it THAT bad, I cut it loose from my life. And yes, relationships with specific women have been included in that.

What I've found is that working towards things that really are worth working towards often brought with them those things I gave up on as a matter of consequence. I got those things because it just sort of worked out that way and the opportunity arose despite the fact I was working towards some completely different goal at the time. Forget about the whole gf thing and focus building relationships through the job-search and your interests. Track who you spend the most time with and you may eventually reach a point you have a gf by default!



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28 Aug 2014, 7:40 am

Nobody wants to hop on a bus unless they have some idea where it's going. It's pretty much that simple.

Once they get on board, they may decide they like the bus, and not care if the destination changes, or if there are some unscheduled side stops.

The bus has to be going somewhere before most people will take a chance and get on. The destination doesn't necessarily matter - just that it has one - it might be a short, leisurely cruise around the city, or even just around the block. But I'm pretty sure no one would board a bus whose schedule announced it would be sitting in the station until further notice.



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28 Aug 2014, 8:52 am

Eureka13 wrote:
Nobody wants to hop on a bus unless they have some idea where it's going. It's pretty much that simple.

Once they get on board, they may decide they like the bus, and not care if the destination changes, or if there are some unscheduled side stops.

The bus has to be going somewhere before most people will take a chance and get on. The destination doesn't necessarily matter - just that it has one - it might be a short, leisurely cruise around the city, or even just around the block. But I'm pretty sure no one would board a bus whose schedule announced it would be sitting in the station until further notice.

I don't expect the bus to go where I want to go. I just care that I get in the neighborhood. I'm content with walking the rest of the way if I need to.

Well said, btw. :thumright:



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28 Aug 2014, 10:42 am

AngelRho wrote:
Eureka13 wrote:
Nobody wants to hop on a bus unless they have some idea where it's going. It's pretty much that simple.

Once they get on board, they may decide they like the bus, and not care if the destination changes, or if there are some unscheduled side stops.

The bus has to be going somewhere before most people will take a chance and get on. The destination doesn't necessarily matter - just that it has one - it might be a short, leisurely cruise around the city, or even just around the block. But I'm pretty sure no one would board a bus whose schedule announced it would be sitting in the station until further notice.


I don't expect the bus to go where I want to go. I just care that I get in the neighborhood. I'm content with walking the rest of the way if I need to.


Agreed!

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to do the TV/movie cliché thing and show up at the bus station, train station, airport, dock, and say "gimme a ticket for the next bus/train/plane/boat outta here - I don't care where it's going."

The point is, it's *going*.



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28 Aug 2014, 1:04 pm

Eureka13 wrote:
Nobody wants to hop on a bus unless they have some idea where it's going.


Well... I can think of one WP member who might! ;)

But jokes aside, yeah, it's a good way to explain it.


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