Aspergers and conversation skills?

Post Reply New Topic

hi all... wondering could anyone advise... we're in the middle of dilemma as regards diagnosis of our son and very confused.

We've been thinking our 8 yo DS perhaps has aspergers last couple of years. School suggested it initially and we've been working with public psychologist who has been into school and who told me recently that yes, that is what she has always been thinking too. It's not clear cut case but he has social issues (only one shakey friendship/very immature/doesn't recognise faces, difficulty remembering names/doesn't seem to know how to play with peers and isn't very interested in any case) .... he has repetitive issues (no interest in anything except minecraft, 'creatures' throughout the day - repetitive movements and noises that look very unusual - frequently does this on his own in yard at school)..... also lots of sensory issues (very odd/picky about clothes/shoes, won't cut hair, only likes very plain food, always carsick).......... he spends most of his time in his own world and usually only hears you after you say his name a few times or touch his shoulder... he also has quite severe anxiety which hit a bit of a crisis point when school finished up this year - he became extremely obsessive for about 2 weeks only thinking about minecraft and 'creaturing' 24 hours a day, wouldn't surface from this for even a few minutes, allergic to people (leaving room the second you entered), started tapping/knocking things a lot, taking hours to go to sleep at night, hated to leave house.

Anyhow the phychologist that we've been seeing for last couple of years did the ADI - R which met criteria for AS... Then she sent us to another one on the local autism team .. however i was very taken aback... this new psychologist talked to DS for 10 mins and came into me and said 'no i don't see autism - he gestures, maintains eye contact, makes recipricol conversation and showed when he answered a particular question that yes he could tell what someone else was thinking'. Next time we met she did the ADOS and she said he flew through that although i watched and while he showed plenty of imagination and chatted, he said lots of odd things during the chat about emotions, friendship etc and went into a trance watching the disk toy spin...

I would have been delighted with this a few years ago but found this very confusing as if it's not AS then what is it?

The first psychologist is too professional to tell me what she really thinks about the other one but said she was very taken aback by result too and that while she could over rule the ADOS if she choose to she advises that we should forget about labels for the time being and but go on dealing with it as aspergers and treat symptoms. As she says the sensory issues are a huge part of it for him so we've started with occupational therapy and trying different things at home.

Basically I am wondering is it possible to have aspergers but be able to carry on a recipricol conversation incl. gestures etc with a stranger for a period of time?

thanks for any advice!

I can be "normal" for about an hour. She spent 10 minutes with him. Anybody on their best behaviour could ace a test that long.

Of course it's possible. Some of those shrinks seem to get asperger's mixed up with low functioning autism. Not all aspies are completely lacking in social skills. Those shrinks sometimes forget the spectrum part of of autistic spectrum disorder. Trying to generalize aspies would be like trying to generalize any other group comprising of millions of people. We're not all the same. There's an old saying that goes, if you've met one aspie, you've met one aspie.

I would have a problem with the ADOS being administered by someone who had said, "No, I don't see autism."
She had already made up her mind, and she saw what she expected to see.

^^^^^^^^ This. Confirmation bias.

As to other question, yes, Aspies can hold reciprocal conversations. You 'll notice it on this board, in fact.

The level of knowledge among diagnosticians specific to Asperger's Syndrome (AS) and high-functioning Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) continues to amaze me. Is Tony Attwood the only diagnostician on Earth who understands masking (especially with older children and adults) and how it skews tests of observation?!?

Yes, Aspies can hold reciprocal conversations. ASDmommyASDKid and I have them about different things. In fact, we both discovered what the meaning of life is and that is 42.

Thanks a lot for replies. You've confirmed what I thought myself. She was very patronising .. when I was explaining concerns we have about my sons social skills she said 'some parents just want their children to be more sociable', which isn't the case at all me and dh are introvert s ourselves.
Anyhow I trust the other psychologist and think ill follow her advice about forgetting about label for the moment and working on issues. I really hope the OT works well as im very worried about the level of anxiety and possible depression DS has shown this summer.

Any opinions feel free id be grateful for them as have no one to talk to about this

A lable may open up more services from the school or from your health insurance. For instance in CA your insurance would have to pay for speech therapy, which could include a social communications or "friends" group to work in social skills.

Reciprocal conversations including gestures and sustained eye contact with a stranger for a period of time suggests lack of ASD to me.
Deficits in these behaviors are the critical ones when it comes to identifying autism, because they indicate lack of normal social cognition.
Higher-level things like having or not having friends, being immature or not, being generally weird or not, are too vague and ill-defined to be critical for identifying autism, so the focus is on the well-defined social behaviors like making gestures, speaking back and forth, and making eye contact. If a child has these, then they have a significant level of normal social cognition, which reduces the likelihood of ASD.

I think your conception of this may be too narrow. My son goes to a school specifically for kids with Aspergers, and several of his classmates would not be ASD according to your description. I'm essentially a stranger but have had conversations with them that are reciprocal, have reasonable eye contact, and gestures.

I hear what your saying. Its the point the psycologist is making too that If he's capable of that (even very occasionally) its not asd. However is it possible to 'pretend' as others are suggesting. As his mother its always since he was a little baby been very hard work to make and maintain a 'connection' with him. He's different from his siblings. Had a conversation this evening about how exhausting he finds socialising. It literally wipes him out and he has to spend hours after chilling and thinking about his special interest after ( he explains it that he now 'craves' minecraft and can remember the day his 'craving' changed from dinosaurs to minecraft). He also has really unusual views about humans in general. .. says things like 'he wishes we were all worms and didn't need to worry about romance etc. Nearly identifies more with animals.

He has very low confidence (or else you could call it such high standards) that he won't take any risks.. for example even though he's obsessed with it he won't even play minecraft as it frustrates him so much but spends his screen time watching youtube movies of others playing minecraft. It makes me sad as he's fantastic at art for example but won't do it anymore as nothing he does is good enough. He also has a very negative self image in ways as in thinks he's ugly etc .

He's the sweetest child(when in a good mood! ) and I adore him. But he's always been a bit of a mystery to me. Operates differently to other people and I want to help him as much as possible.

I understand you're torn. And there is no logical reason to deny you the answers you seek, however, when they determine your child can't have ASD, you're expected to be happy. If you're not they may respond negatively.

As others have said, being able to hold reciprocal conversations and make eye contact does not mean you can't be on the spectrum. The phrase I have heard is "direct instruction". Kids on the spectrum need a lot more direct instruction to learn these things. But learning is possible. And teaching eye contact and reciprocal conversations skills should be important goals of speech therapy, and parents can help as well. We spend the money on this because we think it helps. But adults can and hopefully will continue to support your child in whatever way is most effective.

It seems like you still have a question?

I think she is expressing frustration because she wants help for her child and cannot get it.

Thank you ASDMommy.