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Tufted Titmouse
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24 Sep 2014, 10:33 am

I have schizoaffective (schizophrenia plus depression). My psychiatrist thinks I could also have aspergers/ASD.

Anyone else have a comorbid condition or a dual diagnosis?



calstar2
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24 Sep 2014, 11:12 am

Uh I believe a diagnosis of schizophrenia rules out autism?



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Tufted Titmouse
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24 Sep 2014, 11:55 am

That's what I though. Psych seems to think could have both



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24 Sep 2014, 12:43 pm

calstar2 wrote:
Uh I believe a diagnosis of schizophrenia rules out autism?


Not necessarily, only if the schizophrenia accounts for all of the symptoms...


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24 Sep 2014, 12:45 pm

I have aspergers/autism...as well as Major Depression, PTSD, Generalized Anxiety and apparently traits of Avoident P.D so whatever, I sometimes feel like for all I know there could be something more but could just be that I can never get enough sleep or rest because of the PTSD.


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beneficii
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24 Sep 2014, 8:17 pm

Gender dysphoria in addition to the Asperger's/ASD. My current doctor is insistent I don't have anything like bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or schizophrenia.


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25 Sep 2014, 10:52 am

I'd class myself as having some form of gender dysphoria. Felt it my whole life:(



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25 Sep 2014, 9:10 pm

i got diagnosedd with depresion follow by bipolar follow by aspergers followed by psychosis disorder NOS. i got a genetic test done and fuond out i had leopard/noonan syndrome and that suposedly can cause some of the things associate with autism so Ive begun doubt my autism diagnosis and i dont put any credence in the bipolar and psychosis. i do know im depressed though, i struggle with that alll the time.


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26 Sep 2014, 11:16 pm

I have Tourettes, OCD, and Borderline Personality Disorder. I'm pretty much everywhere!


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26 Sep 2014, 11:41 pm

Tourettes, chronic migraines, accute anxiety, dyslexia/Dispraxia.

Was ruled out of a Schiz... Disorder considering all symptoms where present since very early childhood or born with it, while my symptoms never "developed" more recently. The voices I do have are considered a more common part of Asperger's than Schiz,,, mine are positive and friendly voices that help soothe meltdowns and distract from pain. It's is on part of imagination play that stays sort of stuck, again, these voices developed from traumas and neglect on part not discovering an ASD earlier. The voices do not get more extreme, louder or demonic etc... typical of mental sickness as I've been told.


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30 Sep 2014, 11:53 am

As well as Asperger Syndrome I have depression, anxiety, OCD and an eating disorder. I think I may also have PTSD. I am not very mentally healthy.


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30 Sep 2014, 12:23 pm

I recommend a new Psych. According to diagnostic criteria, schizophrenia and autistic spectrum disorders are mutually exclusive diagnoses.

Autism does not come with schizophrenia and as a matter of fact according to both the DSM-IV and ICD-10, the diagnoses are mutually exclusive: ?criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or schizophrenia?, as stated in the DSM-IV.


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beneficii
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30 Sep 2014, 12:36 pm

Feralucce wrote:
I recommend a new Psych. According to diagnostic criteria, schizophrenia and autistic spectrum disorders are mutually exclusive diagnoses.

Autism does not come with schizophrenia and as a matter of fact according to both the DSM-IV and ICD-10, the diagnoses are mutually exclusive: ?criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or schizophrenia?, as stated in the DSM-IV.


Actually, they can be comorbid. If the patient develops the ASD first, and then later develops schizophrenia, they can be comorbid. It's only that once a patient develops schizophrenia then they cannot develop an ASD afterwards (as the symptoms would be considered to be "explained" by the schizophrenia). The DSM, however, makes clear that for someone who already has an ASD, they must have prominent delusions and/or hallucinations for at least one month (or less if successfully treated) to be diagnosed with schizophrenia. Basically, for someone with an ASD, having just, say, disorganized speech and negative symptoms without prominent delusions or hallucinations wouldn't cut it, whereas for someone without an ASD disorganized speech and negative symptoms would be enough (provided other criteria are met). The reason is to prevent the comorbidity from being greater, because disorganized speech and negative symptoms tend to already occur to some extent in an ASD anyway, so they can be considered to be "explained" by the ASD. Prominent delusions and/or hallucinations are the only schizophrenia symptoms that cannot be explained by an ASD, so those would allow a person with ASD to be diagnosed with comorbid schizophrenia (provided all other disorders are ruled out and all the other criteria are met), in the DSM at least.


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beneficii
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30 Sep 2014, 12:45 pm

To back this up, this is Criterion F for schizophrenia in the DSM-5 (similar wording exists in the DSM-IV criteria), which regards a patient with an ASD (p. 99):

Quote:
F. If there is a history of autism spectrum disorder or a communication disorder of childhood onset, the additional diagnosis of schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations, in addition to the other required symptoms of schizophrenia, are also present for at least 1 month (or less if successfully treated).


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30 Sep 2014, 11:31 pm

beneficii wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
I recommend a new Psych. According to diagnostic criteria, schizophrenia and autistic spectrum disorders are mutually exclusive diagnoses.

Autism does not come with schizophrenia and as a matter of fact according to both the DSM-IV and ICD-10, the diagnoses are mutually exclusive: ?criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or schizophrenia?, as stated in the DSM-IV.


Actually, they can be comorbid. If the patient develops the ASD first, and then later develops schizophrenia, they can be comorbid. It's only that once a patient develops schizophrenia then they cannot develop an ASD afterwards (as the symptoms would be considered to be "explained" by the schizophrenia). The DSM, however, makes clear that for someone who already has an ASD, they must have prominent delusions and/or hallucinations for at least one month (or less if successfully treated) to be diagnosed with schizophrenia. Basically, for someone with an ASD, having just, say, disorganized speech and negative symptoms without prominent delusions or hallucinations wouldn't cut it, whereas for someone without an ASD disorganized speech and negative symptoms would be enough (provided other criteria are met). The reason is to prevent the comorbidity from being greater, because disorganized speech and negative symptoms tend to already occur to some extent in an ASD anyway, so they can be considered to be "explained" by the ASD. Prominent delusions and/or hallucinations are the only schizophrenia symptoms that cannot be explained by an ASD, so those would allow a person with ASD to be diagnosed with comorbid schizophrenia (provided all other disorders are ruled out and all the other criteria are met), in the DSM at least.


I disagree. As do my Psychiatric professional sources. The two are mutual exclusive diagnoses.


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beneficii
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01 Oct 2014, 10:17 am

Feralucce wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
I recommend a new Psych. According to diagnostic criteria, schizophrenia and autistic spectrum disorders are mutually exclusive diagnoses.

Autism does not come with schizophrenia and as a matter of fact according to both the DSM-IV and ICD-10, the diagnoses are mutually exclusive: ?criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or schizophrenia?, as stated in the DSM-IV.


Actually, they can be comorbid. If the patient develops the ASD first, and then later develops schizophrenia, they can be comorbid. It's only that once a patient develops schizophrenia then they cannot develop an ASD afterwards (as the symptoms would be considered to be "explained" by the schizophrenia). The DSM, however, makes clear that for someone who already has an ASD, they must have prominent delusions and/or hallucinations for at least one month (or less if successfully treated) to be diagnosed with schizophrenia. Basically, for someone with an ASD, having just, say, disorganized speech and negative symptoms without prominent delusions or hallucinations wouldn't cut it, whereas for someone without an ASD disorganized speech and negative symptoms would be enough (provided other criteria are met). The reason is to prevent the comorbidity from being greater, because disorganized speech and negative symptoms tend to already occur to some extent in an ASD anyway, so they can be considered to be "explained" by the ASD. Prominent delusions and/or hallucinations are the only schizophrenia symptoms that cannot be explained by an ASD, so those would allow a person with ASD to be diagnosed with comorbid schizophrenia (provided all other disorders are ruled out and all the other criteria are met), in the DSM at least.


I disagree. As do my Psychiatric professional sources. The two are mutual exclusive diagnoses.


Dude, did you not see my source? Why did you ignore it? I thought you were better than this. Here it is again--I hope it can make some difference:

Quote:
To back this up, this is Criterion F for schizophrenia in the DSM-5 (similar wording exists in the DSM-IV criteria), which regards a patient with an ASD (p. 99):

Quote:
F. If there is a history of autism spectrum disorder or a communication disorder of childhood onset, the additional diagnosis of schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations, in addition to the other required symptoms of schizophrenia, are also present for at least 1 month (or less if successfully treated).


Also, one of your sources, the DSM-IV, I've seen and it contradicts you. Here is Criterion F for schizophrenia in the DSM-IV (which I've already told you is similar):

Quote:
F. Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated).


http://counsellingresource.com/lib/dist ... -symptoms/

It is clear from Criterion F for schizophrenia in both books that schizophrenia can be diagnosed when there is a history of ASD, provided that the patient has at least one of the two symptoms that ASD can't explain ("prominent delusions or hallucinations...present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated)"). It's only that ASD can't develop after schizophrenia (which would be really difficult anyway, since the earliest schizophrenia diagnosis I've heard of was at age 5, very very young and very very rare for it to be so young, but still later than when the first ASD symptoms manifest).


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