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Rocket123
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12 Nov 2014, 10:50 pm

Adamantium wrote:
...I find looking people in the eye is very important to them and you can get a lot of information about them from the muscular activity around the eyes and within the eye....

Adamantium - Your story is quite interesting. I have several questions. First, do you have to consciously think about making eye contact? Second, do you consciously extract information from the eyes? Third, do you find it difficult to do this during a normal conversation (by this, I mean, listen to what they are saying, translate it, figure out how to respond, etc. as well as remember to maintain proper eye contact while collecting information from the muscular activity around the eyes)? It seems like a daunting task.

Graelwyn wrote:
Close up, I seem to not know how long to look for, when to look away and am very aware that I am not 'doing it properly', so to speak. I hate looking at mouths so that is not an option for me, i can look at eyes if people are not looking at me, or from a distance, but close up, no. I cannot even look in my mother's eyes. And it feels so unnatural if I try and force myself to look at eyes. Oddly, I have no issue with eyes when they are on actors on the screen either.

My eyes zero in on the mouth area when watching actors on the screen. The same is true when looking at still pictures.



Adamantium
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13 Nov 2014, 6:11 am

Rocket123 wrote:
First, do you have to consciously think about making eye contact?

No. Yes. Sort of.
If I think about it too directly, I have trouble with it. I have to think about something else. But I do have to stop myself from looking away into a neutral space and also stop myself from looking to directly or intently and getting sucked into that feeling. I always do think about it.

It's a bit like handling something hot from the stove--you have to be cautious and take care, but you also have to get on with making your tea or soup or whatever. It's hard to explain.

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Second, do you consciously extract information from the eyes?

Sort of. I am often aware that the person I am speaking to has had a reaction or thought of significance because of fleeting muscular activity around the eye. The cheek muscles might flex, the brows might raise or lower, the eyelids might open or close a bit. But I often don't know what it means, so I ask--not "what does your sudden squinting mean?" but more "It looks like that struck you in some way" or "What are your thoughts about this?"

I ask people "what are you thinking" very often-perhaps too much. I also often ask "how do you feel about this."

On the other hand, sometimes it is really obvious--they have been offended or become angry, amused or enthusiastic.

You can also see an emotional or interest reaction in the changes to the diameter of the pupil, but I find it very hard to look at the iris or pupil without getting overwhelmed by the contact, when I do look at the inner eye like this, I find that looking and thinking about the structure and visual detail of the iris, or the size of the pupil as a sign of inner life is a sort of defense against the overwhelm. So when you are having a conversation and looking at someone and you start to find it a problem, you can deliberately focus in on these details as a way of making your visual trip back to the eye after looking away a safer process, because to the extent that you are thinking about these details you are not getting lost.

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Third, do you find it difficult to do this during a normal conversation (by this, I mean, listen to what they are saying, translate it, figure out how to respond, etc. as well as remember to maintain proper eye contact while collecting information from the muscular activity around the eyes)? It seems like a daunting task.

No, but I have been doing my version of this for decades. That training in school was in 4th grade and I am nearly 50. To some extent, it depends on the conversation. If I am very intersted in what the person is saying, it's no problem. I tend to do a lot of visualization while listening and while I am busy with that eye contact is not an issue, but at other times it is.

The main thing is to focus on the content of the other person's' ideas and the other person's emotional state: What do they mean and what are they thinking. You don't have to know what the whole facial expression means to know that these reactions mean impact, In context, that can be meaningful. I think it's a bit of a skill like riding a bicycle--if you try to do it thinking actively about it, you can't really do it, but if you focus on where you want to go (rather than on balancing, for example) you can get there. I am not at all confident that I am explaining this well.



russiank12
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14 Nov 2014, 1:06 pm

I sometimes make eye contact accidentally, but once I'm aware of it, I look away. I can do it if the person is far away and not looking at me, but once they do, I have to look away.

For job interviews I would look at the nose, mouth, or forehead.



Adamantium
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14 Nov 2014, 3:00 pm

russiank12 wrote:
I sometimes make eye contact accidentally, but once I'm aware of it, I look away. I can do it if the person is far away and not looking at me, but once they do, I have to look away.

For job interviews I would look at the nose, mouth, or forehead.


Such accidental contacts are the times when I have the biggest problem, because I feel self conscious about looking away--I don't want the other person to think I was looking at them in some weird way and am now being guilty about it, but I really can't look again until I have put my mind on something else.

It's awkward.



russiank12
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14 Nov 2014, 4:50 pm

Adamantium wrote:
russiank12 wrote:
I sometimes make eye contact accidentally, but once I'm aware of it, I look away. I can do it if the person is far away and not looking at me, but once they do, I have to look away.

For job interviews I would look at the nose, mouth, or forehead.


Such accidental contacts are the times when I have the biggest problem, because I feel self conscious about looking away--I don't want the other person to think I was looking at them in some weird way and am now being guilty about it, but I really can't look again until I have put my mind on something else.

It's awkward.


I usually just nod and look up or down or scrunch my eyebrows and look down as if I'm really concentrating on their words.



Rocket123
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14 Nov 2014, 5:35 pm

Adamantium wrote:
...The main thing is to focus on the content of the other person's' ideas and the other person's emotional state: What do they mean and what are they thinking...

Adamantium - Thanks for the explanation.

You know, it?s a lot of trouble (and effort) to figure out "what do they [really] mean" or "what they are [really] thinking". It's simpler and more straightforward to process the words that they say. As I think about it, maybe I am simply lazy.



Adamantium
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14 Nov 2014, 5:52 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
...The main thing is to focus on the content of the other person's' ideas and the other person's emotional state: What do they mean and what are they thinking...

Adamantium - Thanks for the explanation.

You know, it?s a lot of trouble (and effort) to figure out "what do they [really] mean" or "what they are [really] thinking". It's simpler and more straightforward to process the words that they say. As I think about it, maybe I am simply lazy.


But people very, very often mean something different than their words and their eyes and face are part of how they make the rest of it known.

This is the part that is hard. I find that by looking at those details, I can sometimes tell that someone has more to say than their words convey, but I can't accurately determine what that additional content is. Just that I need to ask more open ended questions to try to get them to verbalize what they were expressing non-verbally.



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14 Nov 2014, 5:56 pm

I try to take people "at their word," so to speak.

I don't tend to discern anything different than what a person actually says at the moment of interaction--except when there's blatant irony or sarcasm.

I tend to determine actual intent through context clues (which I think about later). The "clues" are related to the situation within which the conversation occurred.



Adamantium
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14 Nov 2014, 6:19 pm

In truth, I usually take people at their word, too.

Then I am seen as stupid for not getting it, not knowing who my enemies and allies are and generally failing to be a player in "the game."

I get high ratings for technical ability and low ratings for people skills but I think it would be worse if I didn't try hard.



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14 Nov 2014, 7:17 pm

You know what I do?

I make an assessment based upon "past performance."