If physical illness was treated like mental illness..

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elkclan
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14 Nov 2014, 2:58 am

I think there's a real short shrift given to mental illnesses - even when they're obviously biological in nature. For example, in the UK if you have cancer and are incapacitated by it you will get some follow up help at home through the NHS, but if you have dementia you probably won't.

On the other hand, some of the stuff about depression "Lying in bed obviously hasn't helped you..." may make sense - sometimes you need to short circuit the chemical depression by introducing new chemicals by getting up and moving around and smiling and exercising and yes, even thinking happy thoughts. As someone who has had lifelong issues with depression this is one of the ways I now manage my depression (though it's not entirely effective on its own, but the other treatments don't work without this). For physical ailments, too, sometimes getting up and working to get better is also helpful! (not always!).



Amity
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14 Nov 2014, 3:01 am

This thread is so practical, in general when people cant see the illness in a physical form, they tend to have difficulty understanding that it is real. Ive used a broken limb analogy to try explain this before, its a temporary to medium term ailment but leaves a scar/a weak point that in the long term will need accomodations and adaptations in daily practices. The info, images and articles are great, thanks :)



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14 Nov 2014, 3:22 am

calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


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calstar2
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14 Nov 2014, 3:31 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


Maybe not, but I also fail to see how it makes sense to compare somebody who is depressed and not getting out of bed/not taking the steps to improve their mental health to somebody in a coma. You can without a doubt be mentally unwell, but you can also make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things to improve it just like you can with certain physical conditions.



Who_Am_I
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14 Nov 2014, 3:33 am

calstar2 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


Maybe not, but I also fail to see how it makes sense to compare somebody who is depressed and not getting out of bed/not taking the steps to improve their mental health to somebody in a coma. You can without a doubt be mentally unwell, but you can also make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things to improve it just like you can with certain physical conditions.


The trouble, though, is that depression makes it hard to make the changes in the first place. When you barely have the energy to get out of bed, it's difficult to make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things.


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androbot01
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14 Nov 2014, 4:20 am

calstar2 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


Maybe not, but I also fail to see how it makes sense to compare somebody who is depressed and not getting out of bed/not taking the steps to improve their mental health to somebody in a coma. You can without a doubt be mentally unwell, but you can also make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things to improve it just like you can with certain physical conditions.


I guess it depends on what it is you are comparing. In this example ^, both the depression and the coma are physical afflictions, but they diverge in similarity when you compare recoverability, available treatment, etc.
So I'm not sure just how you mean that they aren't comparable. If you are saying that the coma is worse than depression, I would be inclined to agree with you, but that doesn't mean that both don't have physical causes. A broken leg isn't as bad as a coma, but both are physical ailments.



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14 Nov 2014, 4:26 am

calstar2 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


Maybe not, but I also fail to see how it makes sense to compare somebody who is depressed and not getting out of bed/not taking the steps to improve their mental health to somebody in a coma. You can without a doubt be mentally unwell, but you can also make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things to improve it just like you can with certain physical conditions.



Calstar, you compared the hypothetical case of a conscious person who is depressed with a comatose person incapable of thought or feeling. If I have understood you correctly, you think the first is mentally unwell, and the second is physically unwell. To me the comparison seems a bit odd though. Coma arises from dysfunctions in the brain: you could call it a "mental" illness, as thought (mentation) is impossible, and the brain is incapable of sustaining conscious function as long as the coma lasts.

Depression can be a side effect of many physical conditions (as one of the articles previously linked explained). A person with parathyroid disease may be extremely depressed; lifestyle changes are not going to make any impact on the condition and secondary impacts.
This hypothetical person's depression might be the most highly visible symptom, but "mental illness" is not the cause of it. A tunnel-visioned doctor (or observer) would call it a "mental" illness. Your perspective is different to mine: hypothetically it seems that you would advise the "depressed" person to "take steps to improve their mental health...and also make lifestyle changes".

Alternatively, what you may be saying is that depressed people should take responsibility for their own recovery and people with physical illnesses need to be treated with medical care. If this is what you meant, it is also riddled with problems. People who become ill as a result of their obesity and eating habits - they get diabetes say, or a heart attack - need to make the lifestyle changes in response to their "physical" illness; what may remain hidden though is that the addiction food may be driven by emotional (mental) events that take place in their brains which cause depression and anxiety which they self-medicate by using food as tranquilising comfort. The division between mental/physical seems to me artificial and incorrect, because the mental and physical aspects are intertwined in cause and effect.

At least that's my view. We seem 180 degrees apart though.



Last edited by B19 on 14 Nov 2014, 4:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

calstar2
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14 Nov 2014, 4:31 am

androbot01 wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
At the risk of offending somebody, I personally do not see how they are comparable.


The brain is an organ just like any other. It makes no sense to treat mental illness as a question of willpower.


Maybe not, but I also fail to see how it makes sense to compare somebody who is depressed and not getting out of bed/not taking the steps to improve their mental health to somebody in a coma. You can without a doubt be mentally unwell, but you can also make lifestyle changes along with a bunch of other things to improve it just like you can with certain physical conditions.


I guess it depends on what it is you are comparing. In this example ^, both the depression and the coma are physical afflictions, but they diverge in similarity when you compare recoverability, available treatment, etc.
So I'm not sure just how you mean that they aren't comparable. If you are saying that the coma is worse than depression, I would be inclined to agree with you, but that doesn't mean that both don't have physical causes. A broken leg isn't as bad as a coma, but both are physical ailments.


I will say that I didn't read the linked article and was saying it in regards to the comic and I don't think it's a good idea to give the message that you are as powerless to your circumstances when it comes to mental illness as your are in the other situations in the comic, which is what I feel it communicates.

B19 wrote:
You compare the hypothetical case of a conscious person who is depressed with a comatose person incapable of thought or feeling. If I have understood you correctly, you think the first is mentally unwell, and the second is physically unwell. To me the comparison seems a bit odd though. Coma arises from dysfunctions in the brain: you could call it a "mental" illness, as thought (mentation) is impossible, and the brain is incapable of sustaining conscious function as long as the coma lasts.


I was using an example given in the comic.

(probably shouldn't have posted in this thread to start with because I didn't mean to start anything, so I should probably opt out now)



androbot01
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14 Nov 2014, 4:43 am

calstar2 wrote:
... and I don't think it's a good idea to give the message that you are as powerless to your circumstances when it comes to mental illness as your are in the other situations in the comic, which is what I feel it communicates.

I feel quite powerless against my own mental health ailments. If I didn't have access to the medications I take I would undoubtedly attempt suicide as I have before.



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14 Nov 2014, 9:41 am

One has to, at times, use one's cognition and intellect to overcome dysphoria.



jenisautistic
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14 Nov 2014, 9:49 am

Well would autism or Down's syndrome be consider physical or mental?


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14 Nov 2014, 9:54 am

Down's Syndrome is a "physical" disorder to a certain extent. Many of them have heart problems. They tend to get obese as they get older. There is an evident physical appearance which makes them "stand out."

Autism usually is not usually seen as being a "physical" disorder in and of itself. When there are co-morbidities, there could exist physical-type symptoms. In fact, people with autism could exhibit a very high degree of endurance, especially when they are pursuing their "special interest."



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14 Nov 2014, 10:09 am

If the brain isn't physical, then what is it? How do you explain personality changes as have been exhibited in such cases as that of Phineas Gage?
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14 Nov 2014, 10:12 am

That's a good point.



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14 Nov 2014, 10:14 am

I wonder if anxiety disorder is a psychical disorder? Lot of people think if you just take a pill for it, you're normal as if anxiety was a sickness or something that goes away like a cold does or the flu or a period cramp.

I wonder if learning disabilities/differences is psychical. I could never get over it when I tried.

I always though psychical disorders were things like something wrong with your eyes or legs or body parts while with your brain it's just mental or neurological. I considered Down's syndrome a psychical disorder because they have different body features. Slanted eyes, smaller noses, bigger tongues, extra skin layer, and the way they talk because of how their mouths are so it makes it hard for them to speak and they tend to get overweight when they hit puberty. I have not seen an adult with DS who isn't fat. I have only seen kids with DS who weren't and that was before they hit puberty.


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14 Nov 2014, 10:16 am

Anxiety can cause physical symptoms. It is, primarily, to me, an emotional disorder, though.