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Protogenoi
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29 Nov 2014, 9:39 pm

Aspiewordsmith wrote:
I would like to live in a society that does not treat AS people as second class citizens but I think that be too much like an episode of Star Trek or another Sci Fi programme.

I was under the impression that the Federation had "done away" with neurodiversity...
Actually the Federation always felt hellish to me. Bright lights that never seem to turn off, no real video games (only holodeck crap), rock & roll is dead, and an increased rarity of real alcoholic beverages. The only characters that I can relate to are Data, 7 of 9, sometimes the Doctor, and sometimes Spock/other vulcans.


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Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x


outlander
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29 Nov 2014, 9:55 pm

Protogenoi wrote:
.....
Exactly.
There are tons of simple accommodations that could significantly help us through college and work.
There are also some not so simple accommodations that are needed for some of us too, myself probably included.

For example: My functioning at college would be significantly improved if I were allowed to wear sunglasses. .... There are other things that would help even more, but they won't even waver on simpler stuff.

I am wondering what college that was where they would not let you wear sunglasses. Having taught as a professor an University of North Dakota, and University of Texas, We provided much more burdensome accommodations than letting a student wear sun glasses and though nothing of it.

E.G.
-- We obtained 1 flat screen computer monitor when they first came out and were expensive because we had a student with a seizure disorder that could be triggered by the flicker present in tube type monitors. It was marked that it had to be yielded upon request to students with a "visual" impairment. Funds were provided through the ADA compliance officer on campus.
-- ADD students would be provided with a private room to take exams.
-- Some students were allowed extra time on exams.
-- I even had one blind student who was provided with a "reader" to assist in taking exams. What was really neat was to see how this blind student could draw engineering diagrams on a white board, that his "reader" then copied onto his exam paper for him. This blind guy was one of my best students.

Failing to meet Americans with Disabilities Act requirements for impaired students can really mess with a college, unless maybe they take absolutely no government funding, financial benefits, and are not public institutions. So as I say, I am curious to know what school would not let you wear sunglasses.


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All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer


Protogenoi
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29 Nov 2014, 10:18 pm

outlander wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
.....
Exactly.
There are tons of simple accommodations that could significantly help us through college and work.
There are also some not so simple accommodations that are needed for some of us too, myself probably included.

For example: My functioning at college would be significantly improved if I were allowed to wear sunglasses. .... There are other things that would help even more, but they won't even waver on simpler stuff.

I am wondering what college that was where they would not let you wear sunglasses. Having taught as a professor an University of North Dakota, and University of Texas, We provided much more burdensome accommodations than letting a student wear sun glasses and though nothing of it.

E.G.
-- We obtained 1 flat screen computer monitor when they first came out and were expensive because we had a student with a seizure disorder that could be triggered by the flicker present in tube type monitors. It was marked that it had to be yielded upon request to students with a "visual" impairment. Funds were provided through the ADA compliance officer on campus.
-- ADD students would be provided with a private room to take exams.
-- Some students were allowed extra time on exams.
-- I even had one blind student who was provided with a "reader" to assist in taking exams. What was really neat was to see how this blind student could draw engineering diagrams on a white board, that his "reader" then copied onto his exam paper for him. This blind guy was one of my best students.

Failing to meet Americans with Disabilities Act requirements for impaired students can really mess with a college, unless maybe they take absolutely no government funding, financial benefits, and are not public institutions. So as I say, I am curious to know what school would not let you wear sunglasses.


I've been to two colleges, neither of them would let me wear sunglasses. One was a private college and I don't know about it's financial situation.
The other is a public institution that has faced several lawsuits about it... They have said that they will update their policies accordingly, but it's been a few years and they haven't published those changes if they made changes. Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.


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Protogenoi
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29 Nov 2014, 10:19 pm

outlander wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
.....
Exactly.
There are tons of simple accommodations that could significantly help us through college and work.
There are also some not so simple accommodations that are needed for some of us too, myself probably included.

For example: My functioning at college would be significantly improved if I were allowed to wear sunglasses. .... There are other things that would help even more, but they won't even waver on simpler stuff.

I am wondering what college that was where they would not let you wear sunglasses. Having taught as a professor an University of North Dakota, and University of Texas, We provided much more burdensome accommodations than letting a student wear sun glasses and though nothing of it.

E.G.
-- We obtained 1 flat screen computer monitor when they first came out and were expensive because we had a student with a seizure disorder that could be triggered by the flicker present in tube type monitors. It was marked that it had to be yielded upon request to students with a "visual" impairment. Funds were provided through the ADA compliance officer on campus.
-- ADD students would be provided with a private room to take exams.
-- Some students were allowed extra time on exams.
-- I even had one blind student who was provided with a "reader" to assist in taking exams. What was really neat was to see how this blind student could draw engineering diagrams on a white board, that his "reader" then copied onto his exam paper for him. This blind guy was one of my best students.

Failing to meet Americans with Disabilities Act requirements for impaired students can really mess with a college, unless maybe they take absolutely no government funding, financial benefits, and are not public institutions. So as I say, I am curious to know what school would not let you wear sunglasses.


I've been to two colleges, neither of them would let me wear sunglasses. One was a private college and I don't know about it's financial situation.
The other is a public institution that has faced several lawsuits about it... They have said that they will update their policies accordingly, but it's been a few years and they haven't published those changes if they made changes. Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.


_________________
Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x


Moromillas
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29 Nov 2014, 10:30 pm

Protogenoi wrote:
Aspiewordsmith wrote:
I would like to live in a society that does not treat AS people as second class citizens but I think that be too much like an episode of Star Trek or another Sci Fi programme.

I was under the impression that the Federation had "done away" with neurodiversity...
Actually the Federation always felt hellish to me. Bright lights that never seem to turn off, no real video games (only holodeck crap), rock & roll is dead, and an increased rarity of real alcoholic beverages. The only characters that I can relate to are Data, 7 of 9, sometimes the Doctor, and sometimes Spock/other vulcans.


What? How on earth can Star Trek be viewed as getting rid of neurodiversity. It's basically the very archetype, the spitting image and shining example of neurodiversity. You have all these alien species, working together as one, to expand their collective knowledge, and no one considers themselves superior to another life form. So, where is the "getting rid of" neurodiversity?



Protogenoi
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29 Nov 2014, 10:53 pm

Moromillas wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
Aspiewordsmith wrote:
I would like to live in a society that does not treat AS people as second class citizens but I think that be too much like an episode of Star Trek or another Sci Fi programme.

I was under the impression that the Federation had "done away" with neurodiversity...
Actually the Federation always felt hellish to me. Bright lights that never seem to turn off, no real video games (only holodeck crap), rock & roll is dead, and an increased rarity of real alcoholic beverages. The only characters that I can relate to are Data, 7 of 9, sometimes the Doctor, and sometimes Spock/other vulcans.


What? How on earth can Star Trek be viewed as getting rid of neurodiversity. It's basically the very archetype, the spitting image and shining example of neurodiversity. You have all these alien species, working together as one, to expand their collective knowledge, and no one considers themselves superior to another life form. So, where is the "getting rid of" neurodiversity?

Different alien species, sure. But there isn't much neurodiversity left in humanity. I've always considered Star Trek to be dystopian. All Utopia's are Dystopia's viewed in a another light. And yes, they frequently do consider themselves superior... especially in regards to some races like the Ferengi.
And really, name a place in the federation that isn't so frickin bright and flashy.

Do you remember in Deep Space Nine where they went back in time to when social misfits were locked away in large concentration camps? Sure, they considered it a tragedy and Cisco saved the day, but you don't hear mention of anyone like that later in the histories.

Oh, I forgot Barclay (did I get his name right?) An NT with social anxiety. Look at how strange he was considered by others. His anxiety was almost unheard of by the others. He's the closest the shows ever really got to the subject of neurodiversity.
If you were to be transported to the Federation now, the would consider you defective, take you to sick bay and try to fix your brain.

And all the weirder characters were almost always looked down upon, at least at first. The doctor even struggled with maintaining rights as an entity... And if I recall Data even had a few problems concerning basic rights on occasion.


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Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x


outlander
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29 Nov 2014, 11:43 pm

Protogenoi wrote:
......Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.

Ah hah! There is part of the problem; pea brained, cop wanna-be Jack booted thugs, that could not think or understand their way out of a wet paper bag. Welcome to the survelience society. But under the Americans with Disabilities Act, it does not need to be medical, it only needs to be a disability. I would think that with a half way decent ADA lawyer you ought to be able to get a nice settlement. Maybe not with the private college but the public institution. Did you check to see if they have an ADA compliance office or officer on campus. Most likely in the student assistance office. Just look in the student handbook and if that does not help go to the administration office and ask where to find the ADA compliance officer.

As to the matter of sunglasses, what do sunglasses do for you that would help your functioning as a student. Is this an eye contact issue or a distraction issue or a sensory issue? For me it would most likely be a sensory issue as all my senses are hyper responsive and this manifests in the case of vision as a glare sensitivity to the point of pain in some circumstances. If that were the case I would think that CAN be classified as a medical issue and a trip to the ophthalmologist should be able to get you a letter classifying it as a medical matter. Likewise I am not so sure that their using the term "psychiatric" issue is quite on the mark, but then again you cannot expect the types of low budget security personnel that they hire to grasp the fine points of anything.

Try the ADA compliance route, with administration and failing that check and see about an ADA lawyer, he can probably get his fee out of the settlement, and I am thinking that the emotional boost from a fight well fought or a victory would do you good.


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All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer


vermontsavant
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29 Nov 2014, 11:57 pm

For example: My functioning at college would be significantly improved if I were allowed to wear sunglasses. That's a lot simpler than making parking spaces with adequate room for wheelchairs that are nearby the building and it's a lot simpler than ramps. This is such a simple accommodation that should be covered simply by human decency. There are other things that would help even more, but they won't even waver on simpler stuff.[/quote]

what college,high school or even pre school would ban sunglasses.you can also get real Irlen filters that are designed specialy for autistics and work better than common sunglasses.
I grew up in a college town and ive seen no shortage of students wearing sunglasses


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Protogenoi
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29 Nov 2014, 11:59 pm

outlander wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
......Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.

Ah hah! There is part of the problem; pea brained, cop wanna-be Jack booted thugs, that could not think or understand their way out of a wet paper bag. Welcome to the survelience society. But under the Americans with Disabilities Act, it does not need to be medical, it only needs to be a disability. I would think that with a half way decent ADA lawyer you ought to be able to get a nice settlement. Maybe not with the private college but the public institution. Did you check to see if they have an ADA compliance office or officer on campus. Most likely in the student assistance office. Just look in the student handbook and if that does not help go to the administration office and ask where to find the ADA compliance officer.

As to the matter of sunglasses, what do sunglasses do for you that would help your functioning as a student. Is this an eye contact issue or a distraction issue or a sensory issue? For me it would most likely be a sensory issue as all my senses are hyper responsive and this manifests in the case of vision as a glare sensitivity to the point of pain in some circumstances. If that were the case I would think that CAN be classified as a medical issue and a trip to the ophthalmologist should be able to get you a letter classifying it as a medical matter. Likewise I am not so sure that their using the term "psychiatric" issue is quite on the mark, but then again you cannot expect the types of low budget security personnel that they hire to grasp the fine points of anything.

Try the ADA compliance route, with administration and failing that check and see about an ADA lawyer, he can probably get his fee out of the settlement, and I am thinking that the emotional boost from a fight well fought or a victory would do you good.


I don't know where my handbook is, but I only have a week of classes left this semester and I probably won't be able to pay for the next semester... But if I go next semester, maybe I'll try.
I have trouble with normal people, but I am also scared of cops in general. I have enough issues giving me anxiety at the moment... :(
But thanks for the advice.


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Moromillas
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30 Nov 2014, 12:49 am

Protogenoi wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
Aspiewordsmith wrote:
I would like to live in a society that does not treat AS people as second class citizens but I think that be too much like an episode of Star Trek or another Sci Fi programme.

I was under the impression that the Federation had "done away" with neurodiversity...
Actually the Federation always felt hellish to me. Bright lights that never seem to turn off, no real video games (only holodeck crap), rock & roll is dead, and an increased rarity of real alcoholic beverages. The only characters that I can relate to are Data, 7 of 9, sometimes the Doctor, and sometimes Spock/other vulcans.


What? How on earth can Star Trek be viewed as getting rid of neurodiversity. It's basically the very archetype, the spitting image and shining example of neurodiversity. You have all these alien species, working together as one, to expand their collective knowledge, and no one considers themselves superior to another life form. So, where is the "getting rid of" neurodiversity?

Different alien species, sure. But there isn't much neurodiversity left in humanity. I've always considered Star Trek to be dystopian. All Utopia's are Dystopia's viewed in a another light. And yes, they frequently do consider themselves superior... especially in regards to some races like the Ferengi.
And really, name a place in the federation that isn't so frickin bright and flashy.

Do you remember in Deep Space Nine where they went back in time to when social misfits were locked away in large concentration camps? Sure, they considered it a tragedy and Cisco saved the day, but you don't hear mention of anyone like that later in the histories.

Oh, I forgot Barclay (did I get his name right?) An NT with social anxiety. Look at how strange he was considered by others. His anxiety was almost unheard of by the others. He's the closest the shows ever really got to the subject of neurodiversity.
If you were to be transported to the Federation now, the would consider you defective, take you to sick bay and try to fix your brain.

And all the weirder characters were almost always looked down upon, at least at first. The doctor even struggled with maintaining rights as an entity... And if I recall Data even had a few problems concerning basic rights on occasion.


No, the neurodiversity is there, you just have a very rigid and narrow understanding of it, it's not about turning the lights down or finding a happy medium everywhere you go. Yes they had enemies, and groups that didn't like them, but everyone was welcome in the federation, they knew about each others differences, but respected each other just the same. Even when they found new life forms that were vastly different, they would be treated as equals, even the Ferengi's.

There are instances where the federation encounters something similar to what we have today, yet it's always seen in their eyes as bizarre and horrid.

Reg Barclay was someone with mental illness, an entirely different subject. He wasn't outcast or treated poorly, no one subscribed to all the mental illness stigmas you find present today.

Yes, and in those stories, they show you how inequality is wrong, and how these people should be treated as equals.



ASPartOfMe
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30 Nov 2014, 1:30 am

outlander wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
......Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.

Ah hah! There is part of the problem; pea brained, cop wanna-be Jack booted thugs, that could not think or understand their way out of a wet paper bag. Welcome to the survelience society. But under the Americans with Disabilities Act, it does not need to be medical, it only needs to be a disability. I would think that with a half way decent ADA lawyer you ought to be able to get a nice settlement. Maybe not with the private college but the public institution. Did you check to see if they have an ADA compliance office or officer on campus. Most likely in the student assistance office. Just look in the student handbook and if that does not help go to the administration office and ask where to find the ADA compliance officer.

As to the matter of sunglasses, what do sunglasses do for you that would help your functioning as a student. Is this an eye contact issue or a distraction issue or a sensory issue? For me it would most likely be a sensory issue as all my senses are hyper responsive and this manifests in the case of vision as a glare sensitivity to the point of pain in some circumstances. If that were the case I would think that CAN be classified as a medical issue and a trip to the ophthalmologist should be able to get you a letter classifying it as a medical matter. Likewise I am not so sure that their using the term "psychiatric" issue is quite on the mark, but then again you cannot expect the types of low budget security personnel that they hire to grasp the fine points of anything.

Try the ADA compliance route, with administration and failing that check and see about an ADA lawyer, he can probably get his fee out of the settlement, and I am thinking that the emotional boost from a fight well fought or a victory would do you good.


I am on vocational rehab so the place is specifically for people with disabilities. Handicapped parking is in the back of the parking lot and the only lights are florescent. Job search preparation readiness is telling you to go on monster and network. I know lot of people going there need that type of basic advice but it is still one system for everybody, not diverse at all. From what I see and read about here the disability act is not worth the price of paper it is printed on. Unlike other anti discriminated legislation most organizations don't seem to fear them.


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outlander
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30 Nov 2014, 9:15 am

vermontsavant wrote:
.......you can also get real Irlen filters that are designed specialy for autistics and work better than common sunglasses.
.......

So I looked up Irlen Filters on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irlen_filters
which let to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotopic_sensitivity_syndrome

And I found that yet another personal weirdness may be tied into my Aspie nature.

In the past eons of computer tecnolocy (circa 1980's ) The eary PC's came with monochrome monitors. First white on black, then Green or Amber on black were added. I had no clear idea why, but I could not work for very long on the amber screens as I rather quickly became depressed. The onset was sufficiently prompt that I recognized that it was the amber that was doing it, but not the white or green on black! I have also observed that other colors have some effect on my mood but the amber color on the monitors was so pronounced in its ability to make me depressed that I would not work on those computers but sought out the green ones.

I think it would be good for me to look into this one some more.


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vermontsavant
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30 Nov 2014, 10:09 am

outlander wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
.......you can also get real Irlen filters that are designed specialy for autistics and work better than common sunglasses.
.......

So I looked up Irlen Filters on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irlen_filters
which let to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotopic_sensitivity_syndrome

And I found that yet another personal weirdness may be tied into my Aspie nature.

In the past eons of computer tecnolocy (circa 1980's ) The eary PC's came with monochrome monitors. First white on black, then Green or Amber on black were added. I had no clear idea why, but I could not work for very long on the amber screens as I rather quickly became depressed. The onset was sufficiently prompt that I recognized that it was the amber that was doing it, but not the white or green on black! I have also observed that other colors have some effect on my mood but the amber color on the monitors was so pronounced in its ability to make me depressed that I would not work on those computers but sought out the green ones.

I think it would be good for me to look into this one some more.
had irlen filters existed when I was a kid I would likely have gone to college and would be a federal judge or something.its to late at this point because im used to living day to day with the visual assault and my low paying job doesn't require reading


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outlander
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30 Nov 2014, 2:57 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
had irlen filters existed when I was a kid I would likely have gone to college and would be a federal judge or something.its to late at this point because im used to living day to day with the visual assault and my low paying job doesn't require reading

Your profile gives no indication of your age, however in my own case, at the age of 41 I quit my job designing nuclear reactors, packed up the wife and 4 kids and moved from Virginia to Nebraska and spent 4 years reinventing myself with a PhD. after which I taught at two different universities. So don't throw in the towel on major career changes.... It can be done.


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All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer


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30 Nov 2014, 6:45 pm

Protogenoi wrote:
outlander wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:
.....
Exactly.
There are tons of simple accommodations that could significantly help us through college and work.
There are also some not so simple accommodations that are needed for some of us too, myself probably included.

For example: My functioning at college would be significantly improved if I were allowed to wear sunglasses. .... There are other things that would help even more, but they won't even waver on simpler stuff.

I am wondering what college that was where they would not let you wear sunglasses. Having taught as a professor an University of North Dakota, and University of Texas, We provided much more burdensome accommodations than letting a student wear sun glasses and though nothing of it.

E.G.
-- We obtained 1 flat screen computer monitor when they first came out and were expensive because we had a student with a seizure disorder that could be triggered by the flicker present in tube type monitors. It was marked that it had to be yielded upon request to students with a "visual" impairment. Funds were provided through the ADA compliance officer on campus.
-- ADD students would be provided with a private room to take exams.
-- Some students were allowed extra time on exams.
-- I even had one blind student who was provided with a "reader" to assist in taking exams. What was really neat was to see how this blind student could draw engineering diagrams on a white board, that his "reader" then copied onto his exam paper for him. This blind guy was one of my best students.

Failing to meet Americans with Disabilities Act requirements for impaired students can really mess with a college, unless maybe they take absolutely no government funding, financial benefits, and are not public institutions. So as I say, I am curious to know what school would not let you wear sunglasses.


I've been to two colleges, neither of them would let me wear sunglasses. One was a private college and I don't know about it's financial situation.
The other is a public institution that has faced several lawsuits about it... They have said that they will update their policies accordingly, but it's been a few years and they haven't published those changes if they made changes. Either way, I still am not allowed to wear sunglasses and may be arrested by campus police if I am found to be wearing them in a building or around the outside of the building. They will only let me wear sunglasses if for a "medical reason" not a "psychiatric reason." They justify this by claiming that it is a security risk for people to wear sunglasses.
teachers in college don't control what you wear,as long as your not almost naked or wearing a tee shirt that says something hatefull or threatening


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30 Nov 2014, 6:51 pm

outlander wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
had irlen filters existed when I was a kid I would likely have gone to college and would be a federal judge or something.its to late at this point because im used to living day to day with the visual assault and my low paying job doesn't require reading

Your profile gives no indication of your age, however in my own case, at the age of 41 I quit my job designing nuclear reactors, packed up the wife and 4 kids and moved from Virginia to Nebraska and spent 4 years reinventing myself with a PhD. after which I taught at two different universities. So don't throw in the towel on major career changes.... It can be done.
I have my birthday listed.7-9-75 so im 39


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