the rebbe says autistics relate more to god

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tomato
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25 Dec 2014, 7:33 am

In case you missed it.



SweetTooth
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26 Dec 2014, 5:39 am

That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.



tomato
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26 Dec 2014, 5:47 am

SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.



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26 Dec 2014, 4:45 pm

tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.


This is a silly thing to think and not true.

Not all Jews are Nobel Laureates either.

There are average Jews, intelligent Jews, and dumb Jews. Autistic Jews and various other neurotypes.

This not uncommon for people who are misunderstood or with mental or physical disabilities to be connected to spirituality. The is age old. The flip side is it could equally be associated with possession.

It is nice that he is saying this, but really it makes no differnce.



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26 Dec 2014, 6:02 pm

tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.
I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.
That is a racist statement.


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SweetTooth
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26 Dec 2014, 6:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.
I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.
That is a racist statement.


I think the term "racist" is subject to quite a bit of inflation.



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26 Dec 2014, 7:02 pm

tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.


What makes you say that?



tomato
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26 Dec 2014, 7:06 pm

guzzle wrote:
tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.


What makes you say that?

Well, it's just a working hypothesis. But a lot of things. Ostracization, general temperament/mentality/personality and other mental traits of many of them. I think quite possibly a fair share of them have mild psychosis. Psychosis however is just a commonly accepted concept, I think there is something profound beyond the diagnoses.



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26 Dec 2014, 7:15 pm

tomato wrote:
guzzle wrote:
tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.


What makes you say that?

Well, it's just a working hypothesis. But a lot of things. Ostracization, general temperament/mentality/personality and other mental traits of many of them. I think quite possibly a fair share of them have mild psychosis. Psychosis however is just a commonly accepted concept, I think there is something profound beyond the diagnoses.


I don't think there is anything racist about this. Instead, I would just classify it as common stupidity.



tomato
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26 Dec 2014, 7:20 pm

SweetTooth wrote:
tomato wrote:
guzzle wrote:
tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.

I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.


What makes you say that?

Well, it's just a working hypothesis. But a lot of things. Ostracization, general temperament/mentality/personality and other mental traits of many of them. I think quite possibly a fair share of them have mild psychosis. Psychosis however is just a commonly accepted concept, I think there is something profound beyond the diagnoses.


I don't think there is anything racist about this. Instead, I would just classify it as common stupidity.
I have found this to be a very common attitude among people on this forum. That in itself has added further doubt to the hypothesis in question.



guzzle
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26 Dec 2014, 7:39 pm

tomato wrote:
Well, it's just a working hypothesis. But a lot of things. Ostracization, general temperament/mentality/personality and other mental traits of many of them. I think quite possibly a fair share of them have mild psychosis. Psychosis however is just a commonly accepted concept, I think there is something profound beyond the diagnoses.


Nah, don't buy into that one. Don't know much about Jewish culture, when I come across it it was mainly comparitive religion. And I had a Jewish landlord for a few years. Ranks amongst one of the better ones in my life too.
They ostracize their own
Quote:
Rabbi Epstein alluded to Baruch Spinoza, the Jewish Dutch philosopher who was banned by the Amsterdam community, and addressed the earlier tragic case of Uriel da Costa (who died in 1640). Da Costa was born into a family of Conversos (Jews from the Iberian Peninsula who had been forcibly converted to Christianity); after a period of religious study, da Costa and his family converted back to Judaism. Upon resettling in Amsterdam, da Costa became disenchanted with Judaism as practiced there, as he believed it was too immersed in the minutiae of ritual to the exclusion of spiritual content. For this, he was denounced, his writings were burned, and after seeking in vain to find a Jewish community to identify with in Europe, he increasingly began to view all organized religion as harmful. On his return to Amsterdam, his synagogue ordered him to be whipped and then to be trampled by the members of the congregation. In his despair, he committed suicide.

Read more: An Apology to Jewish Thinkers throughout History Who Have Been Ostracized | Shmuly Yanklowitz | The Blogs | The Times of Israel http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/an-apolo ... z3N3OkTMkY


If you talk to God you pray but when God talk to you they call you psychotic. Where does that leave all those whom claim their prays get answered?
I think it is impossible to place a spiritual person as rebbe in a western pigeon hole. What he said had esoteric undertones to me.
Anyway, he might have a point. But I'm an esoteric kind of person. And I'll leave it at that for now...



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26 Dec 2014, 7:49 pm

A manipulative rabbi trying to exploit Autistics. Paraphrase "come with me little one, you understand me so well" His commentary does not relate to me any more than Christians or Muslims.



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26 Dec 2014, 8:45 pm

Of course, there are almost an unlimited number of causal related factors that lead to the deficits currently behaviorally described in the DSM5 in the U.S. as Autism.

It is clear that at least some folks on the spectrum are highly tuned to sensory and emotional contagion/affective empathy to the point they have difficulty separating their senses and feeling of 'self' from other folks, particularly when environmental sensory stimulus is great as well as higher population densities and highly charged emotions among groups of people.

From an anecdotal perspective rarely are folks who talk in 'robot' language, devoid of human emotions, spiritually oriented folks by their own words.

And yes, one can empirically measure written language with less emotion from the words that are used, one by one.

It's what I personally refer to in metaphor as dead written language opposed to more organic language.

As a technical writer, per one of many hats in government work, I was required to write like this, and at that time it was the only way I was comfortable in writing, although I as an 'empath' leaning individual had no difficulty IN connecting to people and nature, overall, sensory speaking and emotionally speaking, strongly, and yes, at times, it was overwhelming to me.

I've always had a deep connection to a much greater force than the more literal thinking folks I grew up with, even in fundamentalist churches, as well as nature in general, and other people unconditionally too.

I could never follow suit with folks who made fun of Black Americans, Homosexuals, or people with Disabilities, as I for one FELT no higher or lower than a grain of sand.

And yes, now that this PPR forum is not so oppressive to anyone who believes in GOD or religion, in general, per greater neutral moderation, now, these non-censored voices are being heard louder, overall in this forum, and that is great as DISCUSSION ABOUT philosophy, religion, and even politics should be as uncensored and open to all avenues of thought as possible for it to be truly effective as an avenue FOR POTENTIAL NEW LEARNING AND INSIGHTS.

The greatest thing about being an outcast, no matter if a person is raised as a Jew, a black person (particularly in the past and obviously still in some CASES), a homosexual, an androgynous individual, AND the list goes on for human differences IS one has a better opportunity to escape the illusions of culture and look within and observe the truth in nature to have a better understanding AND HUMAN SENSORY AND EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE PER THEIR PLACE AS A WORKING PART OF MOTHER NATURE TRUE aka GoD.

Religion, overall, per history and current days is more integral to the day-to-day life of some folks than others who only think about it AND PRACTICE IT on Sunday. And Jewish folks are more traditional like Muslims in practicing religion more days of the Year, so it stands to reason one might see more of a connection of Autism and the Jewish culture, specifically religion, in general, per the more fundamentalists Jewish folks, as it is just more of a MAIN FOCUS of life for Jewish folks, overall, it seems to me.

The stereotype of Autism is the quiet person that rarely talks to anyone, but that is only stereotype as there are folks who are Autistic who are very gregarious, even SO gregarious THAT they CAN GET ON PEOPLE'S NERVES. ;)

AUTISM is so complex a disorder with so many potential causal and symptomatic variables for human differences that truly when they say one meets one Autistic person, one has only met one AUTISTIC PERSON, stands as truth.

Anyway, I'm glad that this is a forum now, where open minds can reside and discuss A MUCH BROADER VIEW OF PHILOSOPHY, religion, and politics.

I have no problem with disagreement, it is only the censorship of the past here that gets my 'Antlers' raised up, as that's JUST PLAIN UN-AMERICAN TO ME. ;)

And folks with symptoms of the much broader autism phenotype who go the creative route in life, instead of so-called robotic mechanical cognition path, can end up like this lady, in the video below, expressing emotion with GREAT METAPHOR IN ARTISTIC EFFORT that some folks out there in the HEARD OF herd either LOVE OR HATE.

SHE might use a metaphor like these kind of KIND AUTISTICS TAKING in EVERYTHING MINDFUL in AWARENESS, as a new race of human beings.

Well it's just a metaphor and NOT SOMETHING TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY, and yeah, many literally thinking folks whether they be fundamentalist leaning Atheists or fundamentalist Christians consider her art as an art form ranging from gibberish to devil worshipping, HA! HA!

OH AND WAIT, my goodness, KIND AUTISTICS TAKING in EVERYTHING MINDFUL in AWARENESS can be an acronym of KATiE MiA as spelled out, ha! ha!, too.

I've recognized for a long time, well before I came to this forum that there are some autistic folks who are practically 'empaths' and some who do not connect to other folks in THAT WAY HARDLY AT ALL.

SO YEAH, that's what KATiE MiA means to me, and yeah, it's a form of my wife's name too, so it works for me on FACEBOOK TOO. :)

BUT ANYWAY, here's the video I promised of THAT lady I was talking about, and perhaps YOU WERE BORN THIS WAY TOO, 'BABY'. ;)

The so-called robots and empaths, in this way, among 'us' on this forum are as different AS NIGHT AND DAY, FROM my experience here, reading literally millions of words of opinions over the last several years.

Truly it is fascinating, to me, as well, AND EXCELLENT, at least in part, anecdotal EVIDENCE OF JUST HOW DIVERSE THE Autism Spectrum is.

In my opinion, so-called GREATER 'right brain' thinking folks connect to GOD easier than so-called GREATER 'left brain' thinking folks. The anecdotal evidence here, at least, suggests that to me, for sure.

NO one has proven GOD is fair, so maybe some folks for reasons of nurture and or nature simply CANNOT connect to GOD AFFECTIVELY or effectively.

I personally hold out hope, though, that almost anything is possible with GOD, Epigenetics, and Neuroplasticity. :)

And since I see god AS MOTHER NATURE TRUE aka All that is, THOSE ARE ALL VARIABLES OF THE SAME DAM THING, when opened up like a REAL DAM TO FLOW as A river to THE ocean THAT IS GOD.

OH, and here is that video I PROMISED: ;)


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26 Dec 2014, 9:05 pm

Yeah, no.

Religion is a social and emotional construct, so there's no way I can believe that.



tomato
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27 Dec 2014, 5:13 am

aghogday wrote:
The greatest thing about being an outcast, no matter if a person is raised as a Jew, a black person (particularly in the past and obviously still in some CASES), a homosexual, an androgynous individual, AND the list goes on for human differences IS one has a better opportunity to escape the illusions of culture and look within and observe the truth in nature to have a better understanding AND HUMAN SENSORY AND EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE PER THEIR PLACE AS A WORKING PART OF MOTHER NATURE TRUE aka GoD.

That is a subject that interests me and something I've been thinking about in relation to my speculation that Jews might have some form of autism and/or psychosis. A lot of times it seems to me that suffering is the only real enlightenment. You cannot see anything that you are in total harmony with, it's like it doesn't exist, and it seems like you might have to fall between the cracks in order to have any sensitivity. A ripping of the veil as some refer to it. Jonathan Bowden mentions that in this video. He talks about how people who only care about shallow materialist etc. things while being subjected to some form of extreme outer stress, such as a life threatening situation in a war, might have this thing some mystics refer to as a ripping of the veil, where they have a sense of some much greater purpose. I believe that all kinds of mental disorders and illnesses are related to this concept. Neurosis is basically a mild and perpetual ripping of the veil, psychosis is a more thorough or direct sense of the ripping of the veil. The various catalysts that can cause psychosis, such as life crises, drugs, etc. are just like that outer stress he talked about. This is also what fear in general can achieve. Satan is Lucifer, the light bearer. Which is why black comedy is a particularly effective form of comedy. Various modern art or avant-garde art is also the same thing. Even 9/11 and other terrorist attacks have a similar effect.



Here's another comment on this concept:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEEqDz_CsQg&feature=youtu.be&t=1h8m44s



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27 Dec 2014, 5:42 am

Fnord wrote:
tomato wrote:
SweetTooth wrote:
That is one sweet Rebbe, I'm glad he sees things that way.
I personally think that all Jews have some form of autism.
That is a racist statement.


While I believe both my parents had been autistic, only my mother's family had any sort of Jewish background. And everyone in my mom's family, as far as I could tell, were NT through and through.


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