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What are your stance on cures.
Yes, cures are the way to go. 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
No, cures are not good. 81%  81%  [ 21 ]
I'm indifferent. 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 26

blast335
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27 Dec 2014, 1:27 pm

Ok let me be clear on what I mean by cure: a remedy that turns people with Aspergers/autism into nerotypicals. (I hope I spelled that right). I don't mean therapy to help people with autism/Aspergers.

I feel that people who are looking for a cure are being a bit inconsiderate. One of the most well known symptom of AS is a resistance to change but by curing someone you are very literally changing who they are. Another problem with a cure is that it is impossible when you think about it. I'm going to state things weird so try to follow me. A person with AS does not have easy access in their brains to social information, they don't know it. So if say you did cure someone with AS, they aren't any better off then they were, in fact they're worse off. They will:
1. have a decreased interest in their special interest (most likely), so they will need to find new hobbies and stuff
2. they will have a totally new personality which can cause a HUGE social problem, you are friends with your friends because you like their personality right? Say person A has AS, person B is friends with person A person because he find the parts that makes person A AS (note: not the AS itself) charming. But then the person A is cured of AS. All the parts that made person B friends with person A are gone, now person A is down one friend.
3.they still don't have social information and still need to learn how to interact.

I know that is a bit disorganized sorry.
Another thing is this. I feel that parents who want to cure their child of AS should be ashamed of themselves. You want to change the personality of you child. I'm pretty sure that society thinks that is WRONG! You want to take what makes your child who they are and change it to meet society. That is wrong. Now if you want to take your child to therapy so they can interact better with people that is good. Again I don't mean therapy to help fit in, that is different.
Please discuss in the comments.


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I speak on behalf of no-one but myself. For how can I represent anyone else? If someone shares my opinion on a topic, are we now the same person? With the same opinions on all topics? No, of course not.
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Buzz201
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27 Dec 2014, 2:18 pm

I don't see why everybody is opposed to a cure, one would assume you won't be forced to undergo it. Why not let a cure be developed for those that want it, and just not undertake it if you'd rather remain autistic?

Not that I think a cure ever could or will exist...



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27 Dec 2014, 2:24 pm

I don't think there'd ever be a genuine choice for a cure if it was developed. It would be forced on children by parents/guardians or hospitals acting in "best interest". Same would go for those deemed mentally incompetent. The rest would be denied any medical coverage short of a cure and be financially coerced.



Buzz201
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27 Dec 2014, 2:27 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
I don't think there'd ever be a genuine choice for a cure if it was developed. It would be forced on children by parents/guardians or hospitals acting in "best interest". Same would go for those deemed mentally incompetent. The rest would be denied any medical coverage short of a cure and be financially coerced.


This will probably piss people off, but I'm almost certain it would be in the best interest for parents and probably most children, if they were cured at a young age...

Healthcare is taxpayer funded in the UK, so depending on the cost of said cure, there'd probably be pressure over here to remain autistic.



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27 Dec 2014, 11:43 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
I don't think there'd ever be a genuine choice for a cure if it was developed. It would be forced on children by parents/guardians or hospitals acting in "best interest". Same would go for those deemed mentally incompetent. The rest would be denied any medical coverage short of a cure and be financially coerced.


While it is presumptuous of me to tell another person what to do with their brain, as it is their brain and their life, I am very worried about the potential lack of choice.

We have made it easier for blind to people to communicate with the seeing world and deaf people to communicate with the hearing world. Many in the deaf community do not want this "help" and we have accepted that. We have taken the opposite approach with autism. If society accepted autism, and new ways of NT/Autistic communication were invented, a lot less autistics would want a cure, although some still would as some elements of autism are extremely disabling through no fault of NT’s.


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28 Dec 2014, 12:58 am

These kinds of threads get thrown around a lot.

In theory, a "cure" is incredibly impractical, mainly because autism affects the brain. How they'd cure it is beyond me. Nonetheless, even though a "cure" might not sound so evil at the very basic level, one has to wonder the incredible effects it may have in the long run. I.E. the pressure in wiping out autism as if it were polio or leprosy.



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28 Dec 2014, 4:05 am

No. Though early intervention to help children learn social skills is desirable, to "cure" something like Aspergers is to rid the world of a unique perspective, and severely stunt potential contributions to art and science.
Not only can I see a cure being forced on kids "for their own good," I can see this causing problems for adults who are comfortable being themselves as I am sure more neurotypicals would stigmatize those with Aspergers even more severely, and become more insistent that we have a disease or a disorder.
Efforts to "normalize" people who have natural diversity are truly horrifying endeavors, and the ones still in practice need to be swept into the annals of history, where they belong with all past attempts to normalize people of diversity.



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28 Dec 2014, 10:45 am

I believe in treating the negative symptoms (e.g., hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli, headbanging), rather than "curing" the person per se. An autistic mindset has let to much innovation over the years.



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28 Dec 2014, 5:15 pm

I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.


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28 Dec 2014, 7:14 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.
some one somewhere always says they have a cure for something.you would be really surprised.doubtfull many are true

I did once know a woman who cured her M.S with Norwegian cod liver oil.she was looking good the last time I saw her last year.


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28 Dec 2014, 10:17 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.

Blast actually posted the context and definition of this particular brand of cure. That they'll suddenly be an NT, and arguably a different person altogether.

Ah, you're talking about that miracle mineral solution. It's not just snake oil, it's also child abuse. Even more disconcerting, is that people who are hooked by this seem to double down on their beliefs when confronted with the facts.

As a gourmand, I find food analogies are best, in certain situations.

Wanting a cure, is the same as not wanting a cake. You take the tray out of the oven, and, it's cake, but you're really disappointed and go "Oh, but I really wanted a muffin." No icing, no sweets on top, no jams and jellies through the middle, no marbling, no piped decorations, no candles or sparklers, just a plain, ordinary muffin. "I really understand and get along with just plain muffins. If the cake was a muffin, things would be much better." Now, if you were to venture into the cake, on a microscopic level, and somehow take out all the flour molecules, or all the butter (or all the fats) molecules, your cake would end up as something completely different. Yet why the hell anyone would want to not have a cake is beyond me, it's cake!

Also, every single cake, is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the next cake. You might say "Oh, but the cake has a hole in it! Cakes are no good I tell you." Ok, so the cake has a hole in it, but, not every cake is like that. The vast majority of cakes don't have any holes in them. While muffins, they also sometimes have holes. You could very well have a muffin that has a hole in it. The dessert having a hole in it or not, has nothing to do with whether or not it's a cake or a muffin. And if there's some sort of work around for the hole later on, surely that's not a bad thing to have cake.

You have to understand that all the problems that are associated with cakes, is because everywhere go, they only cater to muffins, and also, no just muffins. That's all you get, muffins, sometimes with blueberries, but muffins. So you enter one of these muffin shops along muffin road, in muffin city and ask, "hey, would you like to stock this cake?" They then look at the cake with shock, and go "Oh, no no no, we can't have those in here, nope, it just wouldn't work." Now just in that one shop, but the majority of places. These people, right, are called 'as*holes', and they're the problem that we need to fix.

Another problem is that while muffins have all these ways they can be eaten, and they have all these things that make it so easy, and enjoyable to eat muffins. While cake, you can only eat with your hands. You can ask why cakes don't have the same eatery tech as muffins if you want, but don't hold your breath for a response. If only you had a knife to cut the cake, if only you had a plate to hold the cake, and a fork or even a spoon, even a damn pocket knife would do the job, but no, those things aren't available, you have to make do. So, you very carefully reach your hand, into the cake, and try and scoop some out, intact. Instead it smushes and crumbles to pieces, and makes a mess all over your hands. You try to eat some, and while it's good, it also gets all through your beard, your stache, and up your nostrils, and makes a huge mess on your face, also on your clean clothes. Then, the people eating their muffins with their hand crafted to perfection muffin tech then look at you and go "Oh dear, if only it was a muffin." NO YOU GOD DAMN IDGIT, WE NEED A FREAKING POCKET KNIFE AT LEAST.

Also, some muffins, have raisins.



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29 Dec 2014, 5:08 pm

Moromillas wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.

Blast actually posted the context and definition of this particular brand of cure. That they'll suddenly be an NT, and arguably a different person altogether.


Ok..then no to the "cure". But I think you'd find that the vast majority of "pro-cure" people would also say no... That's not generally meant by a "cure". I think pretty much everyone who is "pro-cure", wants the same kid, but the same kid without all the sh***y aspects of autism. Most "pro-cure" parents don't want a whole new kid- what they want is to know what their current existing kid is thinking, and for their current existing kid to be able to be left alone and have some freedom, etc.. If they just wanted a whole new kid, then presumably they wouldn't care what the current kid is thinking or how that kid's quality of life is...but they do...because they love THAT kid.

I thought the objection to that was just that "anti-cure" people are saying that those "sh***y aspects" aren't really that sh***y in the first place so even the so-called "sh***y aspects" don't need fixing either. (edit to add) Oh oh and also part of the objection is that those so-called "sh***y aspects" (which aren't actually sh***y) are an integral part of that child. (edit again to continue adding) (The disagreement here is that "pro-cure" - and frankly you don't have to be "pro-cure to hold this opinion- parents do not feel that behaviours such as head banging are "integral" to their child at all).


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29 Dec 2014, 5:38 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.

Blast actually posted the context and definition of this particular brand of cure. That they'll suddenly be an NT, and arguably a different person altogether.


Ok..then no to the "cure". But I think you'd find that the vast majority of "pro-cure" people would also say no... That's not generally meant by a "cure". I think pretty much everyone who is "pro-cure", wants the same kid, but the same kid without all the sh***y aspects of autism. Most "pro-cure" parents don't want a whole new kid- what they want is to know what their current existing kid is thinking, and for their current existing kid to be able to be left alone and have some freedom, etc.. If they just wanted a whole new kid, then presumably they wouldn't care what the current kid is thinking or how that kid's quality of life is...but they do...because they love THAT kid.

I thought the objection to that was just that "anti-cure" people are saying that those "sh***y aspects" aren't really that sh***y in the first place so even the so-called "sh***y aspects" don't need fixing either. (edit to add) Oh oh and also part of the objection is that those so-called "sh***y aspects" (which aren't actually sh***y) are an integral part of that child. (edit again to continue adding) (The disagreement here is that "pro-cure" - and frankly you don't have to be "pro-cure to hold this opinion- parents do not feel that behaviours such as head banging are "integral" to their child at all).


Maybe for a majority of pro-neurodiversity people and a majority of pro-cure people, there's significant common ground, but we're too busy shouting at each other to realize it.

I think there's traits almost everyone would agree are negative and traits almost everyone would agree are positive, but then there's traits people will disagree about such as black and white sense of morality and rule obsession, obsessions/special interests, unwillingness to lie, etc.



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30 Dec 2014, 12:35 am

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I don't think a cure exists to be found, so it's pretty much a non-issue for me. But if there were one, I might use it on my kids, or I might not... really depends on the nature of the cure. There already are people who have claimed to cure autism, but I've "resisted the urge" to pour bleach down my kids' throats, etc. to "cure it" so clearly I am capable of using discretion. But let me put it this way: if there was something I could do which didn't seem harmful (unlike pouring bleach down their throat, for example), and had a strong chance of giving my kids the ability to communicate complex thoughts to me, would I take it? HELL YEAH. There are a lot of negative aspects about autism for my kids (such as, extreme sensory issues regarding things I can't change, self-injurious behaviour, etc.), which I personally don't know of any "work around procedures" for that really work, so of course I would be thrilled if those aspects could be taken away, in the interest of making their lives better. But I wouldn't want to do it if it was going to hurt them even more in other ways...obviously...
The problem with discussing this is that since we have no idea what this "cure" is, it's impossible to say if anyone would do it or not.

Blast actually posted the context and definition of this particular brand of cure. That they'll suddenly be an NT, and arguably a different person altogether.


Ok..then no to the "cure". But I think you'd find that the vast majority of "pro-cure" people would also say no... That's not generally meant by a "cure". I think pretty much everyone who is "pro-cure", wants the same kid, but the same kid without all the sh***y aspects of autism. Most "pro-cure" parents don't want a whole new kid- what they want is to know what their current existing kid is thinking, and for their current existing kid to be able to be left alone and have some freedom, etc.. If they just wanted a whole new kid, then presumably they wouldn't care what the current kid is thinking or how that kid's quality of life is...but they do...because they love THAT kid.

I thought the objection to that was just that "anti-cure" people are saying that those "sh***y aspects" aren't really that sh***y in the first place so even the so-called "sh***y aspects" don't need fixing either. (edit to add) Oh oh and also part of the objection is that those so-called "sh***y aspects" (which aren't actually sh***y) are an integral part of that child. (edit again to continue adding) (The disagreement here is that "pro-cure" - and frankly you don't have to be "pro-cure to hold this opinion- parents do not feel that behaviours such as head banging are "integral" to their child at all).


Double negatives with double air quotes?

Do you see head banging as integral or not, is it considered integral by parents or not. Do you mean to say that curbies somehow aren't curbies?

Usually when you talk to parents about AS people, I find they're very keen to rebuke what you say with all these horror stories on Autism, head banging being one of them, and it comes from the perspective of an Adult looking at a Child, and only that perspective.

The thing is, it's not an accurate perspective. When it comes to head banging, the amount of people I've met that had this as a kid, was just one, and it was only when he was a little kid, and because of sensory issues.

There's this one bigoted curbie called Erodien, that actually asked me "What's so bad about wanting to combat autism." I found out why he thought that, he's actually a paramedic, and his entire perspective on Autism was that it's about self harm. It's because that's all he had seen, that's the entirety of his experiences with AS people, and thus his only perspective. On the job, as a paramedic, patching up some AS kid because of self harm.

I have yet to meet an AS person in our crew that has self harmed, but I have met an NT that was a cutter.

There was one person that I met who was convinced that the DSM is scientific, and based on facts funny enough. And his reasoning for classifying it as an illness was that he though the Autism itself, was about dyslexia. Rather than, dyslexia being something both NT and AS people can have. Because he himself, was an AS person with dyslexia, he just assumed "Well, my struggles with life as an AS person are mostly from dyslexia, therefore, AS is about dyslexia." I don't know anyone that has dyslexia, or any of the variations.

What I'm seeing, is the word 'Autism' being used as a catch-all for any negative attributes, especially during childhood.

Just recently there was a discussion with some curbie that applauded that mssng project. He actually managed to link, though conjecture, Autism to Gene deletion, but because his son died from gene deletion. Now, that's pretty horrible, yet it doesn't mean that Autism is Gene Deletion and vice versa.



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30 Dec 2014, 7:44 am

PlainsAspie- probably yes.

Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.

The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!

But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!

The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.


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30 Dec 2014, 5:08 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
PlainsAspie- probably yes.

Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.

The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!

But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!

The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.


No no, it doesn't look like you're using the air quotes right. They're meant for denoting sarcasm or satire. eg, Yep, mountain dew is full of 10% real "fruit". If you leave, and the only take away from the conversation is that my experiences come exclusively from an internet forum, and that they're unusual, then yes, that would unfortunately be a "win".

Yes, some of the discussions I mentioned were on the internet, but my perspective and experience does not live there in a vacuum.

My experiences aren't straight from the internet. My experiences come from my real life, and from lots of other AS people that I meet, in real life, primarily as a social club. Our crew, not including our one specialist, we would probably have combined, over 150 years of real life experience with AS, and I don't mean childhood AS, but adult AS. So it's not a case of, straight from the internet.

The concept you are describing, is a completely alien one.

We don't go around banging our heads, or scratching and biting things. In all my years, I have never seen anyone do these things.

Like I said; only one person that I know of did this head banging, but only as a small child, and he said it was because of sensory problems.

If you're talking about scratching our balls, all men do that, it's a normal thing that men very rarely do.

The only instances of biting I'm aware of, is with toddlers using biting as a means to get attention. To then say it's a characteristic that NT's have, or that AS people have, is a complete misrepresentation. No, it's a toddler issue.