A cure? No thank you.
30 Dec 2014, 5:08 pm
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
PlainsAspie- probably yes.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
No no, it doesn't look like you're using the air quotes right. They're meant for denoting sarcasm or satire. eg, Yep, mountain dew is full of 10% real "fruit". If you leave, and the only take away from the conversation is that my experiences come exclusively from an internet forum, and that they're unusual, then yes, that would unfortunately be a "win".
Yes, some of the discussions I mentioned were on the internet, but my perspective and experience does not live there in a vacuum.
My experiences aren't straight from the internet. My experiences come from my real life, and from lots of other AS people that I meet, in real life, primarily as a social club. Our crew, not including our one specialist, we would probably have combined, over 150 years of real life experience with AS, and I don't mean childhood AS, but adult AS. So it's not a case of, straight from the internet.
The concept you are describing, is a completely alien one.
We don't go around banging our heads, or scratching and biting things. In all my years, I have never seen anyone do these things.
Like I said; only one person that I know of did this head banging, but only as a small child, and he said it was because of sensory problems.
If you're talking about scratching our balls, all men do that, it's a normal thing that men very rarely do.
The only instances of biting I'm aware of, is with toddlers using biting as a means to get attention. To then say it's a characteristic that NT's have, or that AS people have, is a complete misrepresentation. No, it's a toddler issue.
21 Jan 2015, 12:39 pm
THIS is not an easy question...
I discuss this HERE
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
21 Jan 2015, 6:17 pm
Moromillas wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
PlainsAspie- probably yes.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
No no, it doesn't look like you're using the air quotes right. They're meant for denoting sarcasm or satire. eg, Yep, mountain dew is full of 10% real "fruit". If you leave, and the only take away from the conversation is that my experiences come exclusively from an internet forum, and that they're unusual, then yes, that would unfortunately be a "win".
Yes, some of the discussions I mentioned were on the internet, but my perspective and experience does not live there in a vacuum.
My experiences aren't straight from the internet. My experiences come from my real life, and from lots of other AS people that I meet, in real life, primarily as a social club. Our crew, not including our one specialist, we would probably have combined, over 150 years of real life experience with AS, and I don't mean childhood AS, but adult AS. So it's not a case of, straight from the internet.
The concept you are describing, is a completely alien one.
We don't go around banging our heads, or scratching and biting things. In all my years, I have never seen anyone do these things.
Like I said; only one person that I know of did this head banging, but only as a small child, and he said it was because of sensory problems.
If you're talking about scratching our balls, all men do that, it's a normal thing that men very rarely do.
The only instances of biting I'm aware of, is with toddlers using biting as a means to get attention. To then say it's a characteristic that NT's have, or that AS people have, is a complete misrepresentation. No, it's a toddler issue.
I have Asperger's and occasionally engage in self injurious behaviour i.e. head banging, hitting, and yes, scratching and biting. Asperger's does not exclude self injurious behaviours. Many autistic people do that sort of stuff, primarily on the lower end of the spectrum but it does happen in higher functioning people. The difference (as I understand it) between my AS meltdowns and someone with LFA's meltdowns? Mine are shorter, they usually last 10 minutes or less. That's it. Just the duration changes. The behaviours exhibited in meltdown mode are very similar.
That being said, I don't think autistic people need to be cured to be neurotypical. I do think that reducing/eliminating the negative effects of autism would be beneficial to the autistic person and their caregivers if they need them. If I could stop my meltdowns, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Additionally, nit-picking about air quotes is pedantic and many people find it very annoying.
_________________
Diagnosed Asperger's - 2007
Current AQ score: 43
Current PDD score: 105 - moderate
http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html
-Socially awkward and special interests don't mean autism.-
21 Jan 2015, 8:36 pm
DrHouseHasAspergers wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
PlainsAspie- probably yes.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
Moromillas- I'm not telling you they don't want a cure. I'm telling you that the "cure" they want is not what has been described here.
The double negative thing... I'm sorry it didn't make sense to you. Yes, I'm saying that most parents do not believe that head banging is part of who their child is. (By the way, we're obviously meeting different people because head banging and biting/scratching are both very common in my neck of the woods). Yes, I believe my son could stop banging his head, and still be the same person!
But you have a very unusual idea about autism, and I don't know what to make of it, but I find it annoying or upsetting depending on my mood. As such, you can consider this a "win" if you want because I'm outta here!
The only thing I want to add is that my experience is from real life, not an Internet forum. Of course on an Internet forum you'll find a lot of crazy people, but from my experience most of these parents in real life love their kids (the kid they already have) and are desperately trying to do the right thing for that kid. And one thing that is definitely true is that it's a lot easier to be the perfect parent when you don't have kids. It's easy to say "If I had a severely autistic child like yours, I would do x, y, z and everything would be fine" ... But as it turns out, when you actually are a parent, it's not easy at all.
No no, it doesn't look like you're using the air quotes right. They're meant for denoting sarcasm or satire. eg, Yep, mountain dew is full of 10% real "fruit". If you leave, and the only take away from the conversation is that my experiences come exclusively from an internet forum, and that they're unusual, then yes, that would unfortunately be a "win".
Yes, some of the discussions I mentioned were on the internet, but my perspective and experience does not live there in a vacuum.
My experiences aren't straight from the internet. My experiences come from my real life, and from lots of other AS people that I meet, in real life, primarily as a social club. Our crew, not including our one specialist, we would probably have combined, over 150 years of real life experience with AS, and I don't mean childhood AS, but adult AS. So it's not a case of, straight from the internet.
The concept you are describing, is a completely alien one.
We don't go around banging our heads, or scratching and biting things. In all my years, I have never seen anyone do these things.
Like I said; only one person that I know of did this head banging, but only as a small child, and he said it was because of sensory problems.
If you're talking about scratching our balls, all men do that, it's a normal thing that men very rarely do.
The only instances of biting I'm aware of, is with toddlers using biting as a means to get attention. To then say it's a characteristic that NT's have, or that AS people have, is a complete misrepresentation. No, it's a toddler issue.
I have Asperger's and occasionally engage in self injurious behaviour i.e. head banging, hitting, and yes, scratching and biting. Asperger's does not exclude self injurious behaviours. Many autistic people do that sort of stuff, primarily on the lower end of the spectrum but it does happen in higher functioning people. The difference (as I understand it) between my AS meltdowns and someone with LFA's meltdowns? Mine are shorter, they usually last 10 minutes or less. That's it. Just the duration changes. The behaviours exhibited in meltdown mode are very similar.
That being said, I don't think autistic people need to be cured to be neurotypical. I do think that reducing/eliminating the negative effects of autism would be beneficial to the autistic person and their caregivers if they need them. If I could stop my meltdowns, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Additionally, nit-picking about air quotes is pedantic and many people find it very annoying.
Surely you can see how strange it is to be associated with banging ones head against a wall, particularly when you yourself don't do that, and everyone you know doesn't do that.
Perhaps it is a childhood problem that AS people overcome, I certainly didn't bang my head a child, nor did the vast majority of people I know bang their heads on things as children.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, it even happens with NTs in some rare circumstances, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of Asperger's. Including it in a description of Asperger's is just bizarre.
It would be like, I don't know, adding tantrums to the description of NTs, it's just nonsense.
It's not pedantic, it's asking what people mean when they use air quotes where they normally aren't used. Eg: Obama is the "president". Then asking: Do you not think he's president? Do you think someone else is the president?
22 Jan 2015, 9:01 pm
Moromillas wrote:
Surely you can see how strange it is to be associated with banging ones head against a wall, particularly when you yourself don't do that, and everyone you know doesn't do that.
Perhaps it is a childhood problem that AS people overcome, I certainly didn't bang my head a child, nor did the vast majority of people I know bang their heads on things as children.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, it even happens with NTs in some rare circumstances, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of Asperger's. Including it in a description of Asperger's is just bizarre.
It would be like, I don't know, adding tantrums to the description of NTs, it's just nonsense.
It's not pedantic, it's asking what people mean when they use air quotes where they normally aren't used. Eg: Obama is the "president". Then asking: Do you not think he's president? Do you think someone else is the president?
Perhaps it is a childhood problem that AS people overcome, I certainly didn't bang my head a child, nor did the vast majority of people I know bang their heads on things as children.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, it even happens with NTs in some rare circumstances, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of Asperger's. Including it in a description of Asperger's is just bizarre.
It would be like, I don't know, adding tantrums to the description of NTs, it's just nonsense.
It's not pedantic, it's asking what people mean when they use air quotes where they normally aren't used. Eg: Obama is the "president". Then asking: Do you not think he's president? Do you think someone else is the president?
Thats right, obama isn't president, that is a conspiracy. *puts on tinfoil hat* (obvious sarcasm is obvious)
_________________
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
-Romans 12:2
I speak on behalf of no-one but myself. For how can I represent anyone else? If someone shares my opinion on a topic, are we now the same person? With the same opinions on all topics? No, of course not.
-Blast335 (me)
23 Jan 2015, 11:54 am
Moromillas wrote:
Surely you can see how strange it is to be associated with banging ones head against a wall, particularly when you yourself don't do that, and everyone you know doesn't do that.
Perhaps it is a childhood problem that AS people overcome, I certainly didn't bang my head a child, nor did the vast majority of people I know bang their heads on things as children.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, it even happens with NTs in some rare circumstances, I'm saying it's not an accurate representation of Asperger's. Including it in a description of Asperger's is just bizarre.
It would be like, I don't know, adding tantrums to the description of NTs, it's just nonsense.
It's not pedantic, it's asking what people mean when they use air quotes where they normally aren't used. Eg: Obama is the "president". Then asking: Do you not think he's president? Do you think someone else is the president?
Headbanging is a type of stimming... it is documented as such. stimming is one of the diagnostic criteria for an Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
NTs routinely engage in tantrums as well.
There are many many many more examples of it... search them out if you want.
Putting something in quotes is standard usage... common knowledge... You should know what is implied... I do not, however, agree with shaming you for asking for clarification. It is better to ask and thought a fool than to assume and be confirmed a fool. And for the record, anyone accusing any aspie or autist of being pedantic is being silly... that's kinda what we are... pedantic
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
23 Jan 2015, 12:00 pm
DrHouseHasAspergers wrote:
That being said, I don't think autistic people need to be cured to be neurotypical.
Actually... That is exactly what would need to happen. To be considered neurologically typical, all of the physical and emotional aspects of an autistic spectrum disorder would have to be removed... which would be cured.
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
23 Jan 2015, 5:42 pm
Feralucce wrote:
Headbanging is a type of stimming... it is documented as such. stimming is one of the diagnostic criteria for an Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
NTs routinely engage in tantrums as well.
There are many many many more examples of it... search them out if you want.
Putting something in quotes is standard usage... common knowledge... You should know what is implied... I do not, however, agree with shaming you for asking for clarification. It is better to ask and thought a fool than to assume and be confirmed a fool. And for the record, anyone accusing any aspie or autist of being pedantic is being silly... that's kinda what we are... pedantic
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
NTs routinely engage in tantrums as well.
There are many many many more examples of it... search them out if you want.
Putting something in quotes is standard usage... common knowledge... You should know what is implied... I do not, however, agree with shaming you for asking for clarification. It is better to ask and thought a fool than to assume and be confirmed a fool. And for the record, anyone accusing any aspie or autist of being pedantic is being silly... that's kinda what we are... pedantic
Well, Apparently there was one Autist that played air guitar as part of stimming, to everyone else, that's considered unusual, and not something they do. What if it was someone saying "Oh, Aspergians, yeah, they all play air guitar randomly, pretty weird." It's just not accurate. I've not witnessed this bangs their head, or plays air guitar, and even if there was, it would just be one person that's unusual, it wouldn't suddenly mean that everyone else is playing air guitar and banging their head on things. It's just not an accurate view of Aspergians to say so. Same with pedantic, that's not something that exists within our crew, we even see the exact opposite sometimes. To say all these things are inherently Aspergian, you have to generalise really hard to believe it.
Same with tantrums, it's not normal for NTs to go around doing that, it's not something that's routine for them.
23 Jan 2015, 6:15 pm
Moromillas wrote:
Well, Apparently there was one Autist that played air guitar as part of stimming, to everyone else, that's considered unusual, and not something they do. What if it was someone saying "Oh, Aspergians, yeah, they all play air guitar randomly, pretty weird." It's just not accurate. I've not witnessed this bangs their head, or plays air guitar, and even if there was, it would just be one person that's unusual, it wouldn't suddenly mean that everyone else is playing air guitar and banging their head on things. It's just not an accurate view of Aspergians to say so. Same with pedantic, that's not something that exists within our crew, we even see the exact opposite sometimes. To say all these things are inherently Aspergian, you have to generalise really hard to believe it.
Same with tantrums, it's not normal for NTs to go around doing that, it's not something that's routine for them.
Same with tantrums, it's not normal for NTs to go around doing that, it's not something that's routine for them.
Maybe... but if it is explained as stimming behavior... autistics ARE known to do that... and by picking specific behaviors that are all defined as stimming, you are obfuscating... Autistics have a high incident of stimming. So... If someone has an unsual stimming behavior, it is not cool to tell them that we don't do that... because it is STILL stimming...
As for NTs and temper tantrums... I disagree, completely... Almost every NT I know will tantrum... it may be a momentary outburst, or it may be a screaming match, crying... but I have observed tantrum behavior MORE often in NTs in public than in Autistics.
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
23 Jan 2015, 6:35 pm
Feralucce wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
Well, Apparently there was one Autist that played air guitar as part of stimming, to everyone else, that's considered unusual, and not something they do. What if it was someone saying "Oh, Aspergians, yeah, they all play air guitar randomly, pretty weird." It's just not accurate. I've not witnessed this bangs their head, or plays air guitar, and even if there was, it would just be one person that's unusual, it wouldn't suddenly mean that everyone else is playing air guitar and banging their head on things. It's just not an accurate view of Aspergians to say so. Same with pedantic, that's not something that exists within our crew, we even see the exact opposite sometimes. To say all these things are inherently Aspergian, you have to generalise really hard to believe it.
Same with tantrums, it's not normal for NTs to go around doing that, it's not something that's routine for them.
Same with tantrums, it's not normal for NTs to go around doing that, it's not something that's routine for them.
Maybe... but if it is explained as stimming behavior... autistics ARE known to do that... and by picking specific behaviors that are all defined as stimming, you are obfuscating... Autistics have a high incident of stimming. So... If someone has an unsual stimming behavior, it is not cool to tell them that we don't do that... because it is STILL stimming...
As for NTs and temper tantrums... I disagree, completely... Almost every NT I know will tantrum... it may be a momentary outburst, or it may be a screaming match, crying... but I have observed tantrum behavior MORE often in NTs in public than in Autistics.
There is stimming that is unusual, that isn't part of social norms. No, not for me to tell them, but for their parents to teach their kids social normalcy, it's not something that's uncool. Randomly playing air guitar, and banging ones head, or hand flapping, falls into that category, it is very unusual for Aspergians to go around doing that, I've certainly not seen it in other Aspergians. That's not saying "Oh, you shouldn't do this", that's just stating fact. It's not an obfuscation, it's looking at more than one Aspergian, and coming to the conclusion that it's just a generalisation.
Perhaps I need to hang around more NTs, I've not seen tantrums as a common thing.
23 Jan 2015, 6:45 pm
Moromillas wrote:
There is stimming that is unusual, that isn't part of social norms. No, not for me to tell them, but for their parents to teach their kids social normalcy, it's not something that's uncool. Randomly playing air guitar, and banging ones head, or hand flapping, falls into that category, it is very unusual for Aspergians to go around doing that, I've certainly not seen it in other Aspergians. That's not saying "Oh, you shouldn't do this", that's just stating fact. It's not an obfuscation, it's looking at more than one Aspergian, and coming to the conclusion that it's just a generalisation.
Perhaps I need to hang around more NTs, I've not seen tantrums as a common thing.
Perhaps I need to hang around more NTs, I've not seen tantrums as a common thing.
All stimming is out of the social norms.
Now, this is going to sound a tad aggressive, but it is obvious that you don't stim... good for you... but "but for their parents to teach their kids social normalcy" is a closed minded and inaccurate statement... STIMMING is not something that we can just teach away... when I stim, i don't even know I am doing it... and when it is pointed out, I am embarrassed which increases cognitive dissonance which, in turn, worsens the stimming... If that is how he stimmed... nothing the parents can say will change that... EVERY stim is different... there are some common ones, but the fact of the matter is that no matter the repetitive behavior it relieves stress and anxiety as well as releasing saratonin... So... if someone stims a certain way... they stim that way... and stimming IS documented as part of autistic spectrum disorders.
As for "You shouldn't do this." I posit that you shouldn't tell others who you are not spending time with what they should and should not do as you are a) not in their shoes, b) do not know what they are going through, and c) not a psychological professional... The traditional psychological advice is to allow stimming unless it presents an IMMEDIATE danger to the Autist.
Just watch them in public... the trantrums may take a second or be bigger... but they do it A LOT...
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
23 Jan 2015, 7:44 pm
Feralucce wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
There is stimming that is unusual, that isn't part of social norms. No, not for me to tell them, but for their parents to teach their kids social normalcy, it's not something that's uncool. Randomly playing air guitar, and banging ones head, or hand flapping, falls into that category, it is very unusual for Aspergians to go around doing that, I've certainly not seen it in other Aspergians. That's not saying "Oh, you shouldn't do this", that's just stating fact. It's not an obfuscation, it's looking at more than one Aspergian, and coming to the conclusion that it's just a generalisation.
Perhaps I need to hang around more NTs, I've not seen tantrums as a common thing.
Perhaps I need to hang around more NTs, I've not seen tantrums as a common thing.
All stimming is out of the social norms.
Now, this is going to sound a tad aggressive, but it is obvious that you don't stim... good for you... but "but for their parents to teach their kids social normalcy" is a closed minded and inaccurate statement... STIMMING is not something that we can just teach away... when I stim, i don't even know I am doing it... and when it is pointed out, I am embarrassed which increases cognitive dissonance which, in turn, worsens the stimming... If that is how he stimmed... nothing the parents can say will change that... EVERY stim is different... there are some common ones, but the fact of the matter is that no matter the repetitive behavior it relieves stress and anxiety as well as releasing saratonin... So... if someone stims a certain way... they stim that way... and stimming IS documented as part of autistic spectrum disorders.
As for "You shouldn't do this." I posit that you shouldn't tell others who you are not spending time with what they should and should not do as you are a) not in their shoes, b) do not know what they are going through, and c) not a psychological professional... The traditional psychological advice is to allow stimming unless it presents an IMMEDIATE danger to the Autist.
Just watch them in public... the trantrums may take a second or be bigger... but they do it A LOT...
No, not all stimming is viewed as outside of social norms.
Incorrect, it falls to parents to teach their kids what is socially acceptable and what isn't. Parents should absolutely be teaching their kids social skills, there's nothing wrong with that. It's also something that's inherent to parents, that parents instinctively pass on. They want to pass on what they know, that's just what parents do, it's not something you can sternly talk people out of.
That you cite stimming as relieving stress and anxiety is quite troubling. Yes it does do those things, however, it's only a band aid solution to a more complex problem in relation to stress and anxiety. In short, it doesn't solve anything, it just makes it seem a little bit better, which is a problem if that's the only way of dealing with stress and anxiety. Kids usually grow up, and figure out ways for themselves how to overcome these things, a different way, a better permanent way, other than standing there flapping away and pretending that it solves something. While stimming provides the illusion of a fix to stress and anxiety, it also can end up creating even more problems just like you've described.
No, you're directly misquoting me. I didn't order anyone to do anything, I didn't tell others to stop doing something, in fact I stated that that's the job of parents. I plainly stated the facts. That sort of stimming is seen as bizarre and uncommon, even among Aspergians. No, I don't want to hang around a 50 year old flapping away in line at the picture theatre, for example.
That's not completely true, it's common to tell parents not to worry about it, that they'll grow out of it, but that's just for little kids. However, when you become older, if it's still there, it then becomes a problem that needs to be addressed, you need some level of competency and normalcy to exist within society, them's the brakes. It can create problems socially for the person that's doing the stimming.
24 Jan 2015, 5:56 am
Moromillas wrote:
No, not all stimming is viewed as outside of social norms.
Quote:
Disagree... stimming makes most NTs uncomfortable... it is unusual behavior, therefore outside of the "NORM"
But teaching them what is acceptable socially has nothing to do with stimming... stimming cannot be helped.
Scholarly papers on the subject disagree with you. I will stick with the experts on this.
No. I was extrapolating from you telling someone that their behavior was unacceptable...
Quote:
Incorrect, it falls to parents to teach their kids what is socially acceptable and what isn't. Parents should absolutely be teaching their kids social skills, there's nothing wrong with that. It's also something that's inherent to parents, that parents instinctively pass on. They want to pass on what they know, that's just what parents do, it's not something you can sternly talk people out of.
But teaching them what is acceptable socially has nothing to do with stimming... stimming cannot be helped.
Quote:
That you cite stimming as relieving stress and anxiety is quite troubling. Yes it does do those things, however, it's only a band aid solution to a more complex problem in relation to stress and anxiety. In short, it doesn't solve anything, it just makes it seem a little bit better, which is a problem if that's the only way of dealing with stress and anxiety. Kids usually grow up, and figure out ways for themselves how to overcome these things, a different way, a better permanent way, other than standing there flapping away and pretending that it solves something. While stimming provides the illusion of a fix to stress and anxiety, it also can end up creating even more problems just like you've described.
Scholarly papers on the subject disagree with you. I will stick with the experts on this.
Quote:
No, you're directly misquoting me. I didn't order anyone to do anything, I didn't tell others to stop doing something, in fact I stated that that's the job of parents. I plainly stated the facts. That sort of stimming is seen as bizarre and uncommon, even among Aspergians. No, I don't want to hang around a 50 year old flapping away in line at the picture theatre, for example.
No. I was extrapolating from you telling someone that their behavior was unacceptable...
Quote:
That's not completely true, it's common to tell parents not to worry about it, that they'll grow out of it, but that's just for little kids. However, when you become older, if it's still there, it then becomes a problem that needs to be addressed, you need some level of competency and normalcy to exist within society, them's the brakes. It can create problems socially for the person that's doing the stimming.
Again... I will stick with and side with the psychiatric professionals on this one.
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
24 Jan 2015, 6:25 am
Feralucce wrote:
Again... I will stick with and side with the psychiatric professionals on this one.
What psychiatric professionals are recommending stimming as a way to treat stress and anxiety?
Everything I've told you is directly from specialists, you can ask them yourself and they'll repeat something similar to what I've told you. Yet despite our crew having over 150 years combined experience with adult AS, excluding our specialists, I've a feeling you'll stick to whatever bias confirmation you can find, just to believe what you would like to believe.
24 Jan 2015, 3:39 pm
Moromillas wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
Again... I will stick with and side with the psychiatric professionals on this one.
What psychiatric professionals are recommending stimming as a way to treat stress and anxiety?
Everything I've told you is directly from specialists, you can ask them yourself and they'll repeat something similar to what I've told you. Yet despite our crew having over 150 years combined experience with adult AS, excluding our specialists, I've a feeling you'll stick to whatever bias confirmation you can find, just to believe what you would like to believe.
Um.. the first occurrence of Autism in medical literature was in 1943. Your crew was not researching it 150 years ago... before 1930, it was thought to be schizophrenia.
I have, in the course of the research for my blog series and my upcoming book, spoken to over 2000 psychiatric professionals and asked them the same set of questions as well as additional questions. My information comes from them, the studies they cite...
Ad hominem attacks have no place in this discussion and have relegated you to a place of being ignored from here on in.
_________________
Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
24 Jan 2015, 5:15 pm
Feralucce wrote:
Um.. the first occurrence of Autism in medical literature was in 1943. Your crew was not researching it 150 years ago... before 1930, it was thought to be schizophrenia.
I have, in the course of the research for my blog series and my upcoming book, spoken to over 2000 psychiatric professionals and asked them the same set of questions as well as additional questions. My information comes from them, the studies they cite...
Ad hominem attacks have no place in this discussion and have relegated you to a place of being ignored from here on in.
I have, in the course of the research for my blog series and my upcoming book, spoken to over 2000 psychiatric professionals and asked them the same set of questions as well as additional questions. My information comes from them, the studies they cite...
Ad hominem attacks have no place in this discussion and have relegated you to a place of being ignored from here on in.
I didn't say we we're researching 150 years ago... you're misquoting me again. Here's what I actually said:
Moromillas wrote:
Yet despite our crew having over 150 years combined experience with adult AS, excluding our specialists,
Over 2000 sounds like an exaggeration, if there were over 2000, then you would have no trouble at all citing one person that advocates the use of stimming as a treatment for stress and anxiety. So I ask again, what psychiatric professionals are recommending stimming as a way to treat stress and anxiety? Can you name one of them? Can you show me their some of their works, where they prescribe stimming?
One explanation, is that you've misinterpreted what someone has said, just as you've done with my words, twice now. I don't think you realise how irresponsible it is to recommend stimming as a coping mechanism, as a go-to way of dealing with stress and anxiety, or any problem for that matter.
What the. Pointing out fallacies is now an ad hom attack? Everything I've posted comes from specialists, and from roughly over 150 years of combined experience, not experience with childhood AS, but adult AS, yet you willfully write that off as "they're not psychological professionals" and ignore it when it doesn't suit you.
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