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Jules_Bonnot_1912
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02 Jan 2015, 7:36 am

Humanaut wrote:
And they only torched 940 cars during this year's New Year's celebrations, which is a reduction of 12% compared to last year.

How do you know that was done by Muslims?


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Humanaut
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02 Jan 2015, 8:49 am

I didn't explicitly identify any group.

It was "a ritual among revellers in the high-rise suburbs" according to reports.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/02/france-12pc-fall-burning-cars-new-years-eve



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02 Jan 2015, 9:47 am

Education is key to tolerance and integration.In African and Middle East countries, education has gone a long way towards modernizing and civilizing people's attitudes. Iranian students for example are increasingly pro-west and pro democracy, grateful for their own modern education system. One day they will be the leaders.


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02 Jan 2015, 9:55 am

I'm a great fan of America and the Allies:

But I believe the rise of Hitlerism was pretty directly caused by the Reparations forced upon the Central Powers (Germany, Austria, and others) by the Allies via the Versailles Treaty.

Hyperinflation in Germany was one of the paramount causes of the rise of the Nazis.



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02 Jan 2015, 5:32 pm

Jules_Bonnot_1912 wrote:
And just look back to the colonies ... how they were created and how it's still the main cause for a lot of problems in the Middle-East and Africa.


You can't blame the Europeans for Islamic fanatics fighting each other. They didn't cause the sunni-shia divide.



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02 Jan 2015, 5:34 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm a great fan of America and the Allies:

But I believe the rise of Hitlerism was pretty directly caused by the Reparations forced upon the Central Powers (Germany, Austria, and others) by the Allies via the Versailles Treaty.

Hyperinflation in Germany was one of the paramount causes of the rise of the Nazis.


Makes you wonder about Russia's economy being wrecked by the sanctions, and their currency dropping very fast.



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02 Jan 2015, 6:48 pm

Jules_Bonnot_1912 wrote:
The_Walrus is right: it's mostly the propaganda that makes it seem as if Europe has a big problem with Muslims. The problem is more the propaganda itself: trying to scare the people with all those lies ... and yes, that's what it is: lies!

Governments are still struggling with the heritance of their colonial past and the immigrant workers. They didn't demand the immigrant workers to integrate (learn the language and customs), because they were expected to leave the country once their job was done. Which didn't happen.
And just look back to the colonies ... how they were created and how it's still the main cause for a lot of problems in the Middle-East and Africa.

Dillogic wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
.



I do agree that if people want Sharia they should go to a different country ...



Why? Maybe they want sharia in the country they are current living in and sees it as their homeland?

I think in the future, muslims will be the majority in many european countries based on the mass immigration and the fact that muslims born more babies.

And if many of them votes for a islamic party that wants sharia, nothing can stop them.

To deny a majority what they want only becuse they are muslims is racism.



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02 Jan 2015, 6:59 pm

One, it's not racism. Racism would imply Islam is a race, when it is a religion

Second, Sharia law is batshit insane. Would you want to be stoned to death over not wearing a head scarf? Or have men oppress any women that stand in their way?

If you honestly believe Sharia law is a good thing, then that is insane. I'm all for freedom of religion, but when you start killing people for disagreeing with you or severely limiting a persons way of life, then it's a problem.



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02 Jan 2015, 7:36 pm

white_as_snow wrote:

I think in the future, muslims will be the majority in many european countries based on the mass immigration and the fact that muslims born more babies.

And if many of them votes for a islamic party that wants sharia, nothing can stop them.

To deny a majority what they want only becuse they are muslims is racism.


You could deny it beause what they want is evil and wrong?

Regardless, it's a silly suggestion. Muslims won't be the majority in any European countries where they aren't already the majoirty any time soon, and there's no reason to believe it will happen for the foreseeable future. "Mass" immigration is nothing but hysteria, and the difference in birth rates is closing - current projections show the rate of increase of the Muslim population will be less than the rest of Europe by 2030.

Of course, most Muslims in the West are reasonable, educated people, and despise many of the tenants of Sharia law.

Check out [this study](http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/futu ... al-europe/) by Pew, which projects that 8% of Europeans will be Muslim by 2030. Of countries that aren't already Islamic, France is projected to have the highest proportion of Muslims by 2030 - 10-11%. That's not going to win any elections, even if all of those are theocrats.



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03 Jan 2015, 2:47 am

trollcatman wrote:
You can't blame the Europeans for Islamic fanatics fighting each other.

Fidel Castro says John McCain and the Jews created ISIS.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/former-cuba-leader-fidel-castro-says-israel-us-144839682.html



Jules_Bonnot_1912
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03 Jan 2015, 5:08 am

trollcatman wrote:
Jules_Bonnot_1912 wrote:
And just look back to the colonies ... how they were created and how it's still the main cause for a lot of problems in the Middle-East and Africa.


You can't blame the Europeans for Islamic fanatics fighting each other. They didn't cause the sunni-shia divide.

Did I say that these problems were religion-based? I was talking about politics ... for example the way the Ottoman empire got divided ...


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07 Jan 2015, 3:07 pm

[quote="kraftiekortie"]I'm a great fan of America and the Allies:

But I believe the rise of Hitlerism was pretty directly caused by the Reparations forced upon the Central Powers (Germany, Austria, and others) by the Allies via the Versailles Treaty.

Hyperinflation in Germany was one of the paramount causes of the rise of the Nazis.[/quote

Happy New Year, Kraftie!

I have to disagree--the Germans already had all the elements of Nazi racial theory well developed before the first world war, so reparations cannot be the primary cause. Reparations and hyperinflation helped destabilize the elements in German society that might have controlled the extreme right, but the core of that thought was home grown from deep roots.

Just as ISIS is not the product of the United States' ill conceived invasion of Iraq, the impulse to extreme right wing thinking expresses itself locally without the need for some foreign causative agent. I think this is because the whole way of thinking (totalitarian, patriarchal, violent) shared by various "fundamentalist" religious groups and extreme nationalist political groups is a product of the same underlying psychological patterns.

The actual political events of the day and place are excuses used to justify the position already taken by the extremists. Chimpanzees don't go raiding and murdering neighbors because of anthropogenic habitat stress, they do it because it is part of their nature.

This horrid stuff is part of human nature. We have the intelligence to avoid it if we choose a better way, but the instincts that make it feel right to some of our kind are very strong, so this will never go away.



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16 Jan 2015, 2:10 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Jules_Bonnot_1912 wrote:
The_Walrus is right: it's mostly the propaganda that makes it seem as if Europe has a big problem with Muslims. The problem is more the propaganda itself: trying to scare the people with all those lies ... and yes, that's what it is: lies!

Governments are still struggling with the heritance of their colonial past and the immigrant workers. They didn't demand the immigrant workers to integrate (learn the language and customs), because they were expected to leave the country once their job was done. Which didn't happen.
And just look back to the colonies ... how they were created and how it's still the main cause for a lot of problems in the Middle-East and Africa.

Dillogic wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
.



I do agree that if people want Sharia they should go to a different country ...



Why? Maybe they want sharia in the country they are current living in and sees it as their homeland?

I think in the future, muslims will be the majority in many european countries based on the mass immigration and the fact that muslims born more babies.

And if many of them votes for a islamic party that wants sharia, nothing can stop them.

To deny a majority what they want only becuse they are muslims is racism.


Well, in the U.S., I know, it would violate the 1st amendment for Congress and the 1st and 14th amendments for any state or local government to implement Sharia law, as that would both be "respecting an establishment of religion" and "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (because of the law against apostasy in Sharia law). It might also violate the part of the Constitution prohibiting a religious test to determine qualification to public office (i.e. we can't disqualify someone from public office because of their religion or lack thereof).

Thankfully, changing the Constitution in the U.S. is difficult.


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16 Jan 2015, 2:25 pm

One of the greatest concerns is the rise of radical Islam will push the Europeans into voting for fascist hardliners. In America, people are so capricious. They vote for the hardliners one election, get disgusted with several of them, then vote them out. They never stay happy with one politician for as long as they used to.



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16 Jan 2015, 2:33 pm

Adamantium wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm a great fan of America and the Allies:

But I believe the rise of Hitlerism was pretty directly caused by the Reparations forced upon the Central Powers (Germany, Austria, and others) by the Allies via the Versailles Treaty.

Hyperinflation in Germany was one of the paramount causes of the rise of the Nazis.


Happy New Year, Kraftie!

I have to disagree--the Germans already had all the elements of Nazi racial theory well developed before the first world war, so reparations cannot be the primary cause. Reparations and hyperinflation helped destabilize the elements in German society that might have controlled the extreme right, but the core of that thought was home grown from deep roots.


That bit in bold is the important part. Extreme politics always does better in hard times. People wouldn't be so angry and looking for scapegoats if they were busy making and spending money.

The current anti-immigration movement in the US is largely fueled by bad economics. Nobody gave a damn about those issues when the economy was booming.

Stop EU austerity and you'll take the wind out of fascism's sails.


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16 Jan 2015, 2:36 pm

That's why it's a waste of time to blame others. It's everyone collective fault and if you cannot come to terms with that and change your own prophecy, it will only stay the same or get worse. People act like they have no personal power or influence during hard economic times because they think their only value is monetary and without that currency, they are completely powerless so we gotta blame others.