Which one of these people is doing more damage to our image?

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I just looked it up, and found out it was the topic I wanted to describe. It's specifically saying 'person' or 'people' then a 'with Autism' or 'with Asperger's', and thinking that's the politically correct way, rather than something like 'Aspergian'.

So, person with autism is offensive, but autistic is not?

For me, well yeah.

More than simply being offended, it's pretty unnerving hearing people describe you like that. It's the 'with' and 'has' part.

It's offensive because it implies autism is something to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. Why isn't anyone demanding use of the terms "people with black skin" or "people from America"?

A medical professional is much more of an expert about what is and isn't a disease than either you or I. Just because you are touchy about being autistic doesn't mean that others are, or should be, happy to have autism. I know I'm thrilled that I (and especially my crazy ass mother) never knew I had it when I was young cause I would have been prevented from ever overcoming how I acted. It took years of work for me to learn how to act normal. I wouldn't have a decent life if I hadn't learned to overcome the social difficulties I had.

Yes, they ARE inherently caused by autism. We have trouble interpreting what others say or mean and pick up on hits and subtle things, BECAUSE of the autism. It's caused by it.

I'm also NOT AT ALL defined by autism. It's not who I am. I'm certainly not defining myself by something I've worked to overcome and struggled with! Would pollen allergies or diabetes be something that is "who you are"? Because autism is a limitation just as allergies and diabetes. It's time to stop being so damn touchy about it and just admit it's not something so freaking great to have, but it doesn't make us bad people or helpless or hopeless either.



What the. Those are all just stigmas, do you honestly think Aspergians are like that? It's not about being offended or not, their end game is eugenic elimination, where we're considered a disease. Yes, help other people, I'm not suggesting otherwise. Autism Speaks, they're not looking to help, they're looking to change what they don't like. Autism and Asperger's is beneficial and valuable, not something you want to get rid of. When we look at major advances in both science and art, it has always come from someone that thinks very differently, is very focused, and doesn't conform and simply follow the herd. It would be a deathblow to suddenly abort them all, gay people, AS people, left handed people, we NEED these genetic variations in order to thrive as a species.[/quote]

Paranoid much? Autism Speaks isn't some kind of eugenics society. Autism isn't what I am and considering it a disease doesn't make me think I'm a disease or you're a disease. I consider that we have a disease and it's one that is variable in it's symptoms and some things and some levels of it are things that can be overcome and others cannot.

If people would just stop taking it so personally, maybe they could see that Autism Speaks isn't out to get them. I'm in no way threatened by them. I know that if I had a child who was autistic I'd love to have resources and options to help them.

If you want to let autism define you, go for it. But just as you say autism speaks doesn't speak for you, you certainly don't speak for me and neither does anybody whose wearing the aluminum foil hat and seeing Hitler around every corner.




The vile stigmas and the bigotry is precisely why we have an 80% unemployment rate, despite being arguably better than NTs at most jobs. It's why acceptance of AS people is so low in society. It's why NTs are pampered by comparison and get all this stuff, while AS people are given a mere pittance. It's how people can think we're suffering or diseased, or how parents find it easy to go back to thinking that's straight out of the 1940's.

So yeah, combating the vile stigmas is kind of a big deal.
No, it's not selfish to fight against that, in order to be accepted and viewed as human being, for a chance at having equality and parity.[/quote]

And here I thought it was our ability to relate in a socially acceptable way that caused the unemployment rate. Whodathunkit?

You know, there is nothing wrong with learning how to act in public. There is nothing wrong with learning to speak up. There is nothing wrong with learning that our own perspective may not actually be correct. Just because somebody else says the sky is blue doesn't mean they want to eliminate the color red from the spectrum.

I can get a job, and thats because I've learned how to present myself and speak to others. It was very hard at first but it's doable for many people. I do think there needs to be some education so that society in general learns that a person who has trouble in how they come across isn't automatically perceived as "less than" or "with a screw loose". That sort of education is very valuable, but learning to fit in shouldn't be put down as something evil either.







I suspect that putting a 3rd of the chocolate in at the end, is just a way to save time and do it quickly. It might end up being a better chocolate by doing it the slow and gentle way? I don't know.
I don't have the money for books, perhaps it's in the library.[/quote]

I have never done that to chocolate, so I'm clueless about it. Are you on FB? If so I'll ask my daughter about adding you and you can talk to her directly about it. She loves talking about the stuff she's learned. Also, I'll find out if she wants to keep her book from that class and if she doesn't maybe she can mail it to you and you can either borrow it or keep it. Hit my up in a private PM on here and we can talk about all that if you want. Also, she's got lots of pics on her FB of her cakes.

Have you ever made souffle's? She went on a souffle kick a while back and OMG I was in HEAVEN!! !! ! I love cheese too and her Swiss one was TO DIE FOR! She made some chocolate individual souffles' the other night in these little ramkins she got and it was so good I couldn't believe it. They had this pudding type center that was liquidy lava like.

She's had to take a bunch of science courses and learn the science of how cooking works too. I'm not interested at all in it, but she loves to talk about it. I'm sure she's love to tell you about it if you want.

I missed their call when I was sick with this HORRIBLE stomach bug I've had the past couple days. I'll call back Monday, as I can't get to my voice mail cause I forgot the password.

Why would they offer me assistance? I don't need any assistance. When I was a kid nobody knew about AS and I was just "weird" and I learned how to act normal eventually. It was very hard but I did it. I still have AS and now that I know why I have some of the problems I do, it explains a lot. But I don't need assistance because of it, what kind of assistance are you thinking I would need??

I'll let you know what they say when I talk to them. I have quite a few questions and a couple of ideas that I want to present to them. I come across pretty well with things like this, and I've had quite a bit of experience interviewing people. People who I come in casual contact with wouldn't ever know I have asperger's although my friends and family know that something really is a little "off" about me lol. I usually explain to them what it is and let them know I'm very much aware of it and it's ok to point out to me when I get weird. However, I'm very professional in an interview, which is how I plan to conduct this.

In your opinion, not in everyone else's. I'm certainly not offended by it, she's simply stating fact.


Personal attacks aren't arguments. Try dismissing my ideas rather than me.[/quote]

After hearing the same conspiracy theories over and over, you do tend to dismiss the people who spout them. At least I do. I'm simply not taking the paranoid people seriously about this, or their ideas. However, I'd like to know what Autism Speaks thinks about it. I'm sure they know and I'm sure they have someone in their media department reading posts about them here.



People with Hansen‘s disease might also be offended by the implications of being called lepers. Her use of it was not to decry the view of autistics as "separate," but to reinforce it. She was saying we are like lepers. She sees autistic people as separate from society.

Did you hear back from Autism Speaks yet?[/quote]

So people with leprosy might be offended by being called lepers? WTH???

Honestly, a lot of us are like lepers. I sure was in grammar school! Actually saying aloud something that's going on shouldn't be considered offensive or GASP politically incorrect. Maybe changing the behavior instead of the words is whats important. People with Hansen's disease get it treated nowdays and don't walk around ringing their bells in a leper colony. Research into Hansen's is why there is a cure. I don't see some big anticure movement from the leper's where they say "I'm proud to be a leper and it's who I am so leave me alone you horrible person!"

I got a call back from them, or at least it's the only missed call from that area code and I know nobody else there except one poster here from NYC but he tells me before he calls so I don't think it's him. I've been in bed with a bad stomach bug the past few days and knocked out on Phenergan so I must have slept through the call. I'll probably call them back tomorrow, if I feel ok. It was all I could do Saturday to call the insurance and pay it online so I can get Obamacare before I file my income tax.I wasn't up to doing a phone interview then at all. I hope I am tomorrow, and if so I'll let you know what they say.

Moromillas; I just talked to her and she wants to keep her books. She has two that cover this stuff and she suggested you either look on Amazon because they are cheap or look at used books at your local college which may have a culinary degree course. Also, you could try Bookmooch which is free.

If you want, I can look stuff up and type it out and email or post it to you online. There is "On Baking" and "Professional Baking" or something like that. She bought hers new but you can get used ones for like 20 bucks. They are huge, nice hardback textbooks.

Friend me on FB and that way I'll have an easier way to get hold of you and I'll type out what you want to know from the books.

No, that's ad verecundiam, being a medical professional does not make you an expert on AS. You can be a medical professional, without even hearing around AS. Being a specialist in the field, with years of experience makes you an expert on AS.

People will often think that we're broken, inherently disabled, diseased, or mentally ill, and that thinking stems directly from bigotry. It's unfortunate that these misconceptions have become such a prevalent misrepresentation that we have to continually combat. I've yet to meet a specialist that will, scoff at decades of research into the field, and then say that it's a disease. I've yet to read any proof that discredits what know, and is proof of a disease, rather than a neurological variant. The only people that will purport such nonsense are the quacks and psuedoscientists like anti-vaxxers and MMS child abusers, and of course Speaks.




There's more to it than just being "touchy". You're talking about people that have, for generations, not had the same opportunities, haven't been accepted and welcomed into society, and still have to dispel the vile stigmas, like the disease stigma.




No it isn't, I'm part of a social club of AS people and Aspergians, and have events all the time, and we don't have any social difficulties. So no, AS is not the cause of social difficulties. What you're talking about, is a two way street, and you're just putting all the blame on one side. By your logic you could easily say that non-AS people have social difficulties, that they have trouble relating, and often read between the lines, and not communicating what they mean, and that the social difficulties are caused by not being an AS person. In reality, the social and communication breakdown between AS and non-AS people, is a bit more complicated than "that's caused by AS".




That too is part of the problem. Whenever someone does well, they're though of as "overcoming Asperger's" instead of more accurately "successful Aspergian." Like I said, dispelling these vile stigmas is a bit more than just being touchy, no it's not like allergies or diabetes. No, because it IS something that's great to have, it is something that's valuable and beneficial, both for the person and for society. If we were to lose that, it would be a dark day indeed.




Except it's not paranoia when there's a genuine threat, and it's something that has happened before.
There are many that, consider the spectrum, in a similar fashion to how they consider down syndrome.
What happened after you could suddenly detect down syndrome in the womb?
What do you thinks going to happen, should they find a way to detect Autism in the womb?

We can already see the outcome -- What happens when AS people and their parents get a diagnosis?
They don't walk in and say "Congratulations! It's Autism!" They mourn it, like the death of men, the death of hopes and dreams, and bemoan that it's not "curable". There are many that, when they think about Autism, an image forms in their mind, of a screaming child, unable to communicate, unable to understand anything, unable to function, drooling and wearing diapers. That is in fact a common description of Autism, doesn't matter what you tell them. Then they imagine that same child growing into an adult, yet remaining mentally as a child, and view it as a life sentence, where they're locked into taking care of a child. This is how most people view Autism, as a disorder.

Organisations like Autism Speaks, are responsible for spreading around these vicious stigmas, like the disease stigma.




They're not interesting in helping, the funds they raise don't go towards helping AS people and their families. They're only interested in less AS people being around, and changing AS people to be as NT as possible, they're just curebies.




I'm afraid you're alone in this, I've not met a single AS person that thinks of themselves as diseased. Not that it matters when there's no evidence to support "AS as a disease" to begin with.




It's not a matter of "Oh, they just need to learn how to behave in public", or "just learn to speak up", that's not what's going on. AS people aren't doing strange things in public, they're not remaining silent when someone talks to them, I have no idea how you came you up with AS people making strange conclusions like that. That you think that's what AS people are doing, and that's it's the cause of joblessness is plainly counter-factual, it doesn't sound like you're living on an island, it sounds like you're living on another planet.

Businesses and Business owners, are quite simply, afraid of us. In a business, they care about their bottom line, and they're worried that something is wrong with the AS person, that they can't do the job (despite AS people being arguably better at most jobs), or that something bad will happen when they work there. They're worried about spending all this money on someone, only to have it hurt, their bottom line, and it stems from... The vile stigmas.

The missing piece of the puzzle is acceptance.




Souffle was 3rd choice after tiramisu. It's not often I make deserts, more of an annual pastafarian thing.

Tell you what Moromillos, before I get further into the discussion with you, I want to ask you a question. What are the signs and symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome, what are the specific benefits of having it, and what are the troublesome issues that are caused by it?

Please answer me that before we go any further.

Also, are you professionally diagnosed or self diagnosed? That has no bearing on anything, I'm just nosy.

One other thing, where did "Aspergian" come from? To me that actually sounds like somebody that has something a lot worse than mild autism. Or like some kind of alien lol. I don't mind "aspie" even though it sounds like a cutsie nickname for a type of snake lol.

I'm interested in what they have to offer adults with autism. Not specifically you.

I'll add that to my list of questions.

Seriously, six pages and nobody has said Adam Lanza or Elliott Rodgers?

People like them are causing the most damage to our image, as well as to those with schizophrenia.

THERE IS NO CONSISTENT image of Autism that applies to any two Autistic People in REAL LIVING COLOR LIFE.

Therefore the whole concept is a moot point and entirely Internet manufactured illusion.

And as far as the Hans Asperger case studied abstract concept of Asperger's goes, people, overall, in the general public still have no idea what it is, and in some cases, not even the folks who have it.

The APA by way of the DSMIV and now non-existent description of Asperger's in the DSM5 never did, as it did not come close to what Hans Aspeger describes in fuller totality, in his case studies.

But the Gillberg Criteria does.

It is impossible to even discuss this issue, in a reasoned fashion, until someone can define what the image of Autism even is.

It goes from Fragile X Syndrome to folks on this forum, diagnosed and self-diagnosed, or just suspecting, by way of tests like the Autism Quotient Test and the Aspie Quiz that in all seriousness can capture a person with Social Anxiety and OCD in a heart beat of potential scale of suspicion, as such, for a real diagnosis that even doctors admit is far from perfect, and often incorrect.

In my opinion, people with or without the diagnosis MOST OFTEN do the most damage to themselves.

SO I CHOOSE OTHER but nah, there is no specific entity but 'YOU' FOR METAPHOR.

And to be crystal clear that is not directed at you, Olive Oil Mom, ONLY THE OP.

I resent being called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. Wether you take me seriously or not doesn't concern me as I don't take you particular seriously either. But for the record I don't think 911 was a US action, I suspect the moon landing actually did happen and I accept that Elvis is dead. And I don't think the actions of Autism Speaks are a conspiracy. Their actions are quite out in the open.


You are missing the implications of the word leper. It is not just a term used for a disease.

I think my ex boyfriend may have had been one. He believed the government could take your house if he wanted it and he just kicks you out without any warning and he thought they also hired someone to assassinate a person for them when the person knows something they don't want them to know so thus the reason why some people disappear and are never found. My mom thought he was a schizophrenic because he had lot of "strange" beliefs. One of my aspie friends had friends who are conspiracy theorists and they wear him out too when he has to listen to it.

I sometimes get a crazy idea about what if there are actually time machines and that was how Anne Frank's family was found because something must have happened that made them famous so someone thought they could change the history by giving an anonymous call and to this day no one still knows who mad that call. Someone told me "actually this has been expressed before" so I saw I wasn't the only one with this crazy idea lol. I don't really believe in my own idea so I won't argue over it like my ex would about his ideas. He hated when I would challenge his ideas and when I wouldn't agree so he would keep on arguing and not drop it.