Which one of these people is doing more damage to our image?

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Which one of these is doing the most damage to our image?
1. Chris Chan 15%  15%  [ 11 ]
2. Simon Baron-Cohen 8%  8%  [ 6 ]
3. The blogging Autism Moms 44%  44%  [ 31 ]
4. Nobody 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
5. Somebody else entirely - tell me who, tell me, tell me, tell me. 23%  23%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 71

OliveOilMom
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27 Jan 2015, 10:53 pm

Ganondox wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
You can dislike the autism without disliking autistics.

When all the word is from neurotypical people complaining about their own suffering and there are no autistics complaining about their suffering being represented, I find that extremely hard to believe. It's like saying "Oh, I don't hate black people, I just hate how their skin is black, but underneath their black skin they are the same as a white person! I also dislike their culture and...but don't hate black people!"



It is nothing at all like saying that. Not at all. Honestly, if you either can't understand or if you are just refusing to understand that being autistic is not like being black, then I can't explain it to you.

I will say that being black is a race. Being autistic is having autism, which is a neurological disorder. Being black is not having a skin disorder. Being black doesn't cause some people to be able to communicate or not be able to eat but a few things or tolerate many things, or get a job or have relationships, or manage money or deal with stress. Being black may have it's degrees of skin color such as light skinned and dark skinned and that's a sort of spectrum of levels there, but that's pretty much where it stops. Blacks and autistics are both discriminated against somewhat and education can go a long way to fix both of those, but if you honestly can't see how having a neurological disorder is different from being black, then I'd actually have to call you a bigot. You are basically saying that being black is a disorder, so that makes you a bigot, doesn't it? I know of no medical publication that calls being black a disorder, but it does say that autism is.


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27 Jan 2015, 11:04 pm

androbot01 wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Like I said before, some of ya'll are taking Autism Speaks personally. They don't want to change you, they don't want to change me, they want kids who can't communicate to be able to, they want kids who can't go through a day without a meltdown to be able to, they want people to be able to enjoy and live their lives without being limited by autism.

You sound like you've been reading their literature...did they get back to you?


No, I've looked at their site and read some things before, but I had my own views about autism before I ever heard of them. When my kids were babies I was terrified that they would get it from their shots or would be autistics. Even before I had ever been "contaminated" by reading a word from Autism Speaks I didn't want my kids to be autistic. You can't blame them for that then can you?

And they had called but I missed it. I was going to get back with them but I was busy all day yesterday and today my grandbaby was here and I woke up to my youngest son bringing all of his belongings back into my house and dropping them in the livingroom before going to work. He's left his gf and moving back here. He's 19. He believes a lot of conspiracies too, but it's the older one that thinks the government is responsible for 9/11, but my younger one still believes in a lot of crazy conspiracy theories. Mainly because there was a documentary on it or he read it somewhere or it just sounds like it could be true. Hopefully he will grow out of that. Hopefully my older one will too, but he's 25.

Maybe I sound like I've been reading their literature because it seems to be the common sense reaction to the idea of Autism Speaks.


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27 Jan 2015, 11:15 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Even before I had ever been "contaminated" by reading a word from Autism Speaks I didn't want my kids to be autistic. You can't blame them for that then can you?

No, but I think things will be easier for autistic prople in the future then they have been in the past. Just speculating, though.



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28 Jan 2015, 1:36 am

aghogday wrote:
A single trigger for all autism, NO. Causal factors, including the genetic diseases above, definitely yes.

Wow, that is amazing. Your own bias confirmation outright states that there's no cause found, and you do this mental gymnastics thing to turn that into meaning "multiple causes".

Let's say for arguments sake, that your bias confirmation DOES states a cause. Where is the evidence to back up such an outrageous claim? It certainly isn't in the "evidence" you proved.

Let's also say for arguments sake, that you did in fact find the cause for Autism and Asperger's. Shouldn't people be calling you "sir"? Where is your nobel peace price? Why aren't you raking in the cash from all the book deals alone? Oh, someone else found it? They just found the cause of this "horrid disease", right. So, where's the headlines in the news, who was it that was knighted then? lol




aghogday wrote:
And you can wiggle your WAY all around the truth as much as you like but again YOU STILL HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE ANYWHERE THAT ANYONE, INCLUDING JER, BUT conspiracy theorists are concluding that Autism Speaks is a Hate Group, and as I clearly stated I personally do not agree with everything they do either but nothing in life is EITHER BLACK AND WHITE ONLY OR PERFECT.

Are you kidding me? I provided a torrent of evidence for you, none of which you have even slightly addressed, or even acknowledged. No, replying to all that evidence by simply accusing detractors of Autism Speaks of coming up with conspiracy theories, sounds absolutely bonkers. Look at how easily brushed aside all those facts, and said they didn't exist.




aghogday wrote:
Some so-called Autistic folks are ALWAYS SUGGESTING THAT Autistic People can do anything they want until they say it and Prove IT, and some nameless avatar goes on about big egos instead of lauding accomplishments like MOST real humans do.

Wait a second, so you're accusing AS people, of faking being on the spectrum, whenever they don't want to be stigmatised as diseased or defective?

Also, when you post an ego trip all about you, you then think people that aren't praising you, aren't even "real humans"?

If I knew someone that though and expressed those things, that train of thought is just sick and terrible, I would drop them so hard. To accuse everyone that doesn't agree with the bigotry, of being fake, holy hell. So many AS people, know that they're not diseased or defective, and experience first hand how those stigmas can greatly impact them. Trying to oust them as not the real AS people, it's a train of thought is incredibly selfish and callous. Even NTs from Speaks, even though they're bigoted curebies, never in a million years would I dehumanise them, or even try to. And over something like ego. I ask, what kind of person would consider, even for a second, such a thing.




aghogday wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
With regard to refrigerator mothers I found this article from 2010:

Whose Fault is Autism? A Historical View of Placing Blame - link

Quote:
In the 1940s, however, apparently at least in part out of a desire for professional advancement, Kanner published new descriptive work that emphasized the role of the "refrigerator mother", whose denial of emotional warmth caused her baby to turn away from other human beings and become autistic. This perspective was easily popularized at a time when there was a strong behaviorist influence (stressing the role of experience as the primary cause of development) as well as a concern about the role of women; following World War II, as men came back from the army and navy, women who had been working in factories were told to step aside, go home, and take up their domestic duties. "Blaming" seems to have come into the picture at this time, as women were popularly characterized as withholding nurture and causing their children's emotional disturbance.


I thought we had gone beyond blaming the mother. Guess not.


Science is always learning new things, and the lack of nurture in the first two years can cause children to go empathy numb across the lifespan. It's just a biological fact. No use to blame anyone.

More denialism, willful ignorance coupled with bizarre claims -- and no surprise, there's no evidence.



Last edited by Moromillas on 28 Jan 2015, 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Jan 2015, 1:46 am

Moromillas wrote:
aghogday wrote:
A single trigger for all autism, NO. Causal factors, including the genetic diseases above, definitely yes.

Wow, that is amazing. Your own bias confirmation outright states that there's no cause found, and you do this mental gymnastics thing to turn that into meaning "multiple causes".

Let's say for arguments sake, that you bias confirmation DOES states a cause. Where is the evidence to back up such an outrageous claim? It certainly isn't in the "evidence" you proved.

Let's also say for arguments sake, that you did in fact find the cause for Autism and Asperger's. Shouldn't people be calling you "sir"? Where is your nobel peace price? Why aren't you raking in the cash from all the book deals alone? Oh, someone else found it? They just found the cause of this "horrid disease", right. So, where's the headlines in the news, who was it that was knighted then? lol




aghogday wrote:
And you can wiggle your WAY all around the truth as much as you like but again YOU STILL HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE ANYWHERE THAT ANYONE, INCLUDING JER, BUT conspiracy theorists are concluding that Autism Speaks is a Hate Group, and as I clearly stated I personally do not agree with everything they do either but nothing in life is EITHER BLACK AND WHITE ONLY OR PERFECT.

Are you kidding me? I provided a torrent of evidence for you, none of which you have even slightly addressed, or even acknowledged. No, replying to all that evidence by simply accusing detractors of Autism Speaks of coming up with conspiracy theories, sounds absolutely bonkers. Look at how easily brushed aside all those facts, and said they didn't exist.




aghogday wrote:
Some so-called Autistic folks are ALWAYS SUGGESTING THAT Autistic People can do anything they want until they say it and Prove IT, and some nameless avatar goes on about big egos instead of lauding accomplishments like MOST real humans do.

Wait a second, so you're accusing AS people, of faking being on the spectrum, whenever they don't want to be stigmatised as diseased or defective?

Also, when you post an ego trip all about you, you then think people that aren't praising you, aren't even "real humans"?

If I knew someone that though and expressed those things, that train of thought is just sick and terrible, I would drop them so hard. To accuse everyone that doesn't agree with the bigotry, of being fake, holy hell. So many AS people, know that they're not diseased or defective, and experience first hand how those stigmas can greatly impact them. Trying to oust them as not the real AS people, it's a train of thought is incredibly selfish and callous. Even NTs from Speaks, even though they're bigoted curebies, never in a million years would I dehumanise them, or even try to. And over something like ego. I ask, what kind of person would consider, even for a second, such a thing.




aghogday wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
With regard to refrigerator mothers I found this article from 2010:

Whose Fault is Autism? A Historical View of Placing Blame - link

Quote:
In the 1940s, however, apparently at least in part out of a desire for professional advancement, Kanner published new descriptive work that emphasized the role of the "refrigerator mother", whose denial of emotional warmth caused her baby to turn away from other human beings and become autistic. This perspective was easily popularized at a time when there was a strong behaviorist influence (stressing the role of experience as the primary cause of development) as well as a concern about the role of women; following World War II, as men came back from the army and navy, women who had been working in factories were told to step aside, go home, and take up their domestic duties. "Blaming" seems to have come into the picture at this time, as women were popularly characterized as withholding nurture and causing their children's emotional disturbance.


I thought we had gone beyond blaming the mother. Guess not.


Science is always learning new things, and the lack of nurture in the first two years can cause children to go empathy numb across the lifespan. It's just a biological fact. No use to blame anyone.

More denialism, willful ignorance coupled with bizarre claims -- and no surprise, there's no evidence.


From now on, I only have one word for ya and that is..

HAMSTERWHEEL..

OR IS IT TWO WORDS..
Hamster Wheel

O.K., I'll give ya two..

Bye Bye.


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28 Jan 2015, 2:06 am

So, Autism Speaks is a "hate group" because of what they do, right? So far here are the reasons that I've been told by people here that they hate Autism Speaks.

1. The commercials talking about autism like it's terrible.
2. Not having autistic people on their board
3. Not having a lot of services for adults
4. Not mentioning high functioning people
5. Putting most of their money into research

Is this all or are there others? I'm not asking for "Autism Speaks thinks this...." or "Autism Speaks hates us...." I'm asking for actual things you can list that they do or have done.

Also, Moromillias, please give me the list of how autism is a gift. I'm still waiting on the list of great things about autism that make it a gift. I'm interested in why you think it's so great.

I personally think that if my AS were to be suddenly and either magically cured or done by some future way to cure that we have no concept of now, I would still be the same person. I'd be interested in the same things, I'd have most of the same preferences, I'd still have the same sense of humor, I'd still love my family, I'd still basically have my same personality. I wouldn't be different, I would just not have all of the same negative things to the same degree.

There are plenty of NT's who are interested in the same special interests we are. There are plenty of NT's who have obsessive interests in things as well, so obsessive interest isn't just caused by AS. There are plenty of NT's who have the same sensory likes and dislikes we have but they are usually not as pronounced and severe.

Autism doesn't make you intelligent, it doesn't make you logical, it doesn't make you stupid, it doesn't make you slow, people are who they are whether they are autistic or not, whether they are smart or stupid, logical or illogical, magically changing their autistic status won't change that. However it would get rid of a lot of limitations they have that interfere with living their lives. Equating it with your personality is not fact. You would still have your personality whether or not you were autistic. You would of course be different somewhat but thats because you would be a person who hadn't been shaped by the limitations that autism put on you.


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28 Jan 2015, 2:14 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
Also, Moromillias, please give me the list of how autism is a gift. I'm still waiting on the list of great things about autism that make it a gift. I'm interested in why you think it's so great.

Image



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28 Jan 2015, 2:28 am

Moromillas wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Also, Moromillias, please give me the list of how autism is a gift. I'm still waiting on the list of great things about autism that make it a gift. I'm interested in why you think it's so great.

Image



So you can't think of something and you decided to just post a douchebag answer? Guess what? NT's can do that too, curing autism won't take that away from you!

I hope for your parents sake that you grow out of this know it all, asshat phase. My kids went through one too, so you may, and it's not at all related to autism either.

You really have gotten a little too big for your britches here over the past couple days on these threads from what I've seen. You may have been this way, but I didn't see it. You seemed like a nice kid at first, but who knows.

Either way I don't argue with people who just get childish like that, so I'm not going to respond to you any more. Before you say some thinly veiled version of it, it's not because I "can't argue with your superior intellect and logical well thought out arguments" or anything at all like that. It's because you basically need a time out. Really. You started pushing my patience with your "willfully ignorant" remark and have just gotten worse. You're not going to talk to me that way and get a response.

I do hope you grow up soon. You will enjoy life much more with less teenage angst and drama and more perspective.

I will however discuss this with others who have the same point of view that you do. It's not the argument that I don't like, it's the arguer.

Toodleoo!


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28 Jan 2015, 4:57 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
No honey. I researched via more than the internet.

Also, I suppose you have missed the posts where people say that Autism Speaks hates autistics. I guess you missed it when people say they must want to kill us all. You probably just accidentally skipped over the posts that compared them to Hitler and said they were just Nazis. All those people who say that are in your little group of anti-Autism Speaks.

It's perfectl ok for parents to get therapy for their autistic kids to minimize the autistic symptoms. It's fine for parents to want their kids to be like their siblings and like other kids and not have the problems that autism does bring. There is nothing wrong with parents getting treatment and therapy and even medication for their children to help them, whether you approve of it or not. When you have children of your own, then you are free to raise them however you want to. When you are grown and have a job and a way to support yourself and them, then you are actually free to adopt all the autistic kids you want and even *not* get them therapy or treatment or medical care for their autism and see how that goes with you and them.

Just because you are going way over the top with this doesn't mean that it's true and doesn't mean most people are going to buy into your emotional rhetoric. Like I said before, some of ya'll are taking Autism Speaks personally. They don't want to change you, they don't want to change me, they want kids who can't communicate to be able to, they want kids who can't go through a day without a meltdown to be able to, they want people to be able to enjoy and live their lives without being limited by autism. You said in an earlier post that you just wanted to be called something that didn't sound like low functioning autism. This makes me think that your frenzy over Autism Speaks is personal. Maybe you think that because of their commercials, you are afraid that everybody is going to think you are like the kids they show.

I know you are all worked up over them, and really if you would allow yourself to get some perspective on this, and stop taking it personally, and stop being so damn paranoid over it, and maybe think of somebody other than yourself, like the very low functioning kids that Autism Speaks is talking about and wants help for, and their families, even though the families seem to be less than zero importance to quite a few of people in your little group, then maybe you could understand where they are coming from and that they aren't trying to ruin the lives and images of high functioning autistics.

No one in the crew that I know of has posted here, and none that you know of either. You're just straw manning Nazi comparisons, the only person that made a Nazi comparison in this thread, is you.

No it's not ok. Autistic symptoms infers that AS is a disease or sickness, similar to how you would catch a cold. It's woefully inaccurate, and unfounded. Autism and Asperger's is simply not a disease.

That depends on your definition of 'treatment'. It would depend what the medication is for. If you're talking about trying to force them to act NT, or act a certain way, no it's not acceptable, it's abhorrent. Teach little kids social skills, teaching them how to read, sure, that's great. Electroshock therapy, or putting blinders on them or physically forcing them to make eye contact, in an effort to stop them from being AS, is trauma inducing, and nothing short of disgraceful.

Drugs, nothing wrong with drugs, if they're used for a secondary mood disorder, like depression for example, or perhaps something like ADHD. The thing is, there are no drugs that stop you from being an AS person, so when people are using drugs "for AS", they can be used incorrectly. It's quite common that they're prescribed not to help the child, but to stop the child from doing a behaviour the parents don't like, or don't approve of. Such usage of drugs, is not appropriate.

AS is NOT a medical problem, sure people need medical for different things sometimes. Being left handed for example isn't a medical problem. It's not correct to view AS people as sick and in need of medical treatment.

lol How is it not personal? They think we're diseased or defective. I'd say that's pretty personal. I've no idea how that can't be personal when someone thinks of you as a disease.

No, they see AS as the cause of their kids not doing well, of limitation, meltdowns etc etc. They demonise the spectrum, instead of the problems AS people have to face. The cause of being limited, as you put, is not AS. Support for NTs is vastly greater, than that of AS people, you guys have a massive leg up, AS people do not. Education is woefully incompatible, business are terrified of us, hate groups would like nothing more than to push a button and be rid of AS, you don't Speaks would love that? Oh man, if they had that opportunity, they would eat that up so fast, oh yummy for my tummy.

Oh? Just paranoid? There's still people that support curing AS, in 2015. Still that the majority believe the vile stigmas, and view AS as a disease or defect, in 2015. If that isn't a disconcerting state of affairs then I don't know is.

But that's the thing, they ARE RUINING LIVES, you have no idea how much the vile stigmas impact you, you have no idea how they make it so difficult to exist under these conditions. Proponents of bigotry like Speaks are directly responsible for spreading these vile stigmas that DO ruin lives, that DOES cause problems in the family, that DOES stop you having an education, that DOES oust you from the community, that DOES stop up from getting medical, that DOES cut you out of the workforce, that DOES ensure a lack of parity between NT and AS, that DOSE squander such potential.




OliveOilMom wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
You can dislike the autism without disliking autistics.

When all the word is from neurotypical people complaining about their own suffering and there are no autistics complaining about their suffering being represented, I find that extremely hard to believe. It's like saying "Oh, I don't hate black people, I just hate how their skin is black, but underneath their black skin they are the same as a white person! I also dislike their culture and...but don't hate black people!"



It is nothing at all like saying that. Not at all. Honestly, if you either can't understand or if you are just refusing to understand that being autistic is not like being black, then I can't explain it to you.

I will say that being black is a race. Being autistic is having autism, which is a neurological disorder. Being black is not having a skin disorder. Being black doesn't cause some people to be able to communicate or not be able to eat but a few things or tolerate many things, or get a job or have relationships, or manage money or deal with stress. Being black may have it's degrees of skin color such as light skinned and dark skinned and that's a sort of spectrum of levels there, but that's pretty much where it stops. Blacks and autistics are both discriminated against somewhat and education can go a long way to fix both of those, but if you honestly can't see how having a neurological disorder is different from being black, then I'd actually have to call you a bigot. You are basically saying that being black is a disorder, so that makes you a bigot, doesn't it? I know of no medical publication that calls being black a disorder, but it does say that autism is.

Yes you did say something that comparable to that analogy. No, AS people don't have a lack of understanding, you have no idea how aggravating it is to explain something, only then to have someone wave it off as, "Oh, they just don't understand". No... YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

No it's not comparable that by way of race, it's comparable by way of being born a specific way. You're born as a black person, you're born as an AS person. No it's nothing like "having" something, this business of "having" something is wrong. The only thing you can have, is a diagnosis. In reality, you ARE Autistic, you ARE Aspergian. It's nothing medical, and it's nothing like a disease. If you were to take the Autism as you see it, and suck it out of the person, you would no longer have a person. That's because Autism IS the person, Asperger's IS the person.

Wow, you fail to comprehend the comparison, then straw man it, then call someone a racist over it, really. What the hell.

Well, not long medical publications said that gay people were affected by mental illness, but we now know that it's counter-factual and disgusting to call them mentally ill. A long time ago, it was considered the mark of the devil to be left handed, but we now know better than that. Sadly we still have people spouting this hateful bigotry, despite experts, specialists explicitly saying it's not mental illness or disease or defect.




OliveOilMom wrote:
So, Autism Speaks is a "hate group" because of what they do, right? So far here are the reasons that I've been told by people here that they hate Autism Speaks.

1. The commercials talking about autism like it's terrible.
2. Not having autistic people on their board
3. Not having a lot of services for adults
4. Not mentioning high functioning people
5. Putting most of their money into research

Is this all or are there others? I'm not asking for "Autism Speaks thinks this...." or "Autism Speaks hates us...." I'm asking for actual things you can list that they do or have done.

Also, Moromillias, please give me the list of how autism is a gift. I'm still waiting on the list of great things about autism that make it a gift. I'm interested in why you think it's so great.

I personally think that if my AS were to be suddenly and either magically cured or done by some future way to cure that we have no concept of now, I would still be the same person. I'd be interested in the same things, I'd have most of the same preferences, I'd still have the same sense of humor, I'd still love my family, I'd still basically have my same personality. I wouldn't be different, I would just not have all of the same negative things to the same degree.

There are plenty of NT's who are interested in the same special interests we are. There are plenty of NT's who have obsessive interests in things as well, so obsessive interest isn't just caused by AS. There are plenty of NT's who have the same sensory likes and dislikes we have but they are usually not as pronounced and severe.

Autism doesn't make you intelligent, it doesn't make you logical, it doesn't make you stupid, it doesn't make you slow, people are who they are whether they are autistic or not, whether they are smart or stupid, logical or illogical, magically changing their autistic status won't change that. However it would get rid of a lot of limitations they have that interfere with living their lives. Equating it with your personality is not fact. You would still have your personality whether or not you were autistic. You would of course be different somewhat but thats because you would be a person who hadn't been shaped by the limitations that autism put on you.

They're a hate group by legal definition of the word.
One blogger posts about it at length here:
http://autismwomensnetwork.org/is-autism-speaks-a-hate-group/
There's also a wiki of group, found here:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Autism_Speaks
And of course there's the blog posts from John Elder Robison that I linked before, detailing why they're such hateful scumbags.
It's actually quite hard to believe, that it's difficult for other to be able to understand why they're such hideous people. They spread stigma that causes us harm, and sets us back in terms of progression, and basically steal donation money that should be going towards helping us and our families.

I've already posted this list you're after, backed up by credentials and experience, not bigoted assumptions.

Arguably, you would be a different person, and in order to be an NT, you're have to sacrifice too much.

You're quite right, it's not a personality, where you like or dislike certain things. Yet it is part of the personality in terms of being an important, valuable, beneficial and intrinsic part of the person. Equating it to a disease or defect however, is counter-factual, does fly in the face of decades of research by credible experts, and doesn't have a shred of evidence to back up such a nonsensical claim.




OliveOilMom wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Also, Moromillias, please give me the list of how autism is a gift. I'm still waiting on the list of great things about autism that make it a gift. I'm interested in why you think it's so great.

Image



So you can't think of something and you decided to just post a douchebag answer? Guess what? NT's can do that too, curing autism won't take that away from you!

I hope for your parents sake that you grow out of this know it all, asshat phase. My kids went through one too, so you may, and it's not at all related to autism either.

You really have gotten a little too big for your britches here over the past couple days on these threads from what I've seen. You may have been this way, but I didn't see it. You seemed like a nice kid at first, but who knows.

Either way I don't argue with people who just get childish like that, so I'm not going to respond to you any more. Before you say some thinly veiled version of it, it's not because I "can't argue with your superior intellect and logical well thought out arguments" or anything at all like that. It's because you basically need a time out. Really. You started pushing my patience with your "willfully ignorant" remark and have just gotten worse. You're not going to talk to me that way and get a response.

I do hope you grow up soon. You will enjoy life much more with less teenage angst and drama and more perspective.

I will however discuss this with others who have the same point of view that you do. It's not the argument that I don't like, it's the arguer.

Toodleoo!


No, you're not that thin skinned that you can't handle a funny image macro, I don't believe it. You can't handle the slightest bit of criticism of your strange ideas, that you simply must throw a fit and storm out? Really?

It's not that I, or others "can't think". Have a look at the size of your posts. Have a look at the frequency of your posts. Have a look at how much drivel you jam pack into all of them. I mean, look at it. Are you kidding me?

It's called Shotgun argumentation, and it's incredibly dishonest. That anyone is able to respond to all the whimsical garbage that you've spewed forth like rapid fire machine gun, is a miracle.

Except I'm not a kid that's living with their parents, that's what they call "making your own reality," and believing your own assumptions to be factual, with little or no standard for evidence, would indeed explain all of your strange ideas. Just like you made yourself believe that I was a child, it's possible that you picked up these strange ideas in much the same way.

Are you kidding me? Not being a grown up, is going around on an AS forum, calling them all diseased, that they need curing, proclaiming in an ignorant stupor that we're limited by negative traits and have no highly valuable qualities, being offended when people rightly call that bigotry, and then storming off in a fit when people don't agree with your nonsense.



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28 Jan 2015, 9:27 am

I was reading the Autcast on FB today and he was talking about this issue. He mentioned that the research being funded by Autism Speaks will not in any way benefit people living with autism now. That it's only purpose is to identify and destroy. OliveOilMom, you even agree that abortions of identified fetuses will increase. So why are you calling this a conspiracy theory? There's no hidden agenda, Autism Speaks is quite clear about what they're doing. So I guess I'm not sure what it is you are so vehemently disagreeing with.



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28 Jan 2015, 11:10 am

androbot01 wrote:
I was reading the Autcast on FB today and he was talking about this issue. He mentioned that the research being funded by Autism Speaks will not in any way benefit people living with autism now. That it's only purpose is to identify and destroy. OliveOilMom, you even agree that abortions of identified fetuses will increase. So why are you calling this a conspiracy theory? There's no hidden agenda, Autism Speaks is quite clear about what they're doing. So I guess I'm not sure what it is you are so vehemently disagreeing with.


I don't know what the Autcast is, is that like a podcast? I'd like to find out from Autism Speaks itself what type of research they are funding, and what their goal is of their research. I don't know that the only research they are funding is to identify the gene that causes autism, and I don't know that the purpose of that is solely to use it for prenatal testing. I'm not a scientist, there could very well be other things that could be done with that information in addition to prenatal testing, I don't know and I want to find that out. I'd rather get my information directly from the company that is funding this instead of someone else who obviously dislikes them. I think I'd stand a better chance of getting factual information from them than from someone with a bone to pick with them. I'm sure that there are also third parties which are neutral about them that would also be a good source of information. I'll gladly listen to the accusations against them from those who hate them and listen to their reasons for it and what they believe the company is up to, but I'll get the facts of what they are doing from the horses mouth.

As for why I call it a conspiracy theory, it's because I feel that it is. I don't think the purpose of autism speaks is to prevent babies with autism from being born because they want to do away with us. Yes it will give parents the opportunity to decide for themselves about whether or not to terminate, and yes I think that the majority of them will. However, you have to remember that when that test is developed and parents are informed about it, they will also be told about the spectrum and the fact that autism isn't always a profound disability like it is in some of the very low functioning people. I also think that the discovery of this gene may tell them more than just the fact that a fetus is autistic, it could tell them much more about autism itself, and even where the baby will be on the spectrum. It could lead to therapies and medication and such that would help those who do have autism and could lead to advancements in treatment. I would hope that by this time there would also be more education about the rest of the people on the spectrum besides those very low functioning people that Autism Speaks talks about in their advertising.

That education is one of the things I'm going to ask them about. People need to know that there are many different levels on the spectrum how those people function and how many, many of us are valuable, contributing, normal members of society (or as normal as anybody is). I think that if the gene is discovered, then in the time leading up to the discovery and use of a prenatal test, education about higher functioning levels of autism will explode. I think that the prolife groups especially would take interest and they have tons of money. I'm not just depending on them to do that, I think many autistics and autistic groups would do so as well, and if Autism Speaks hasn't done so already, they will cave to the pressure to launch an education program about us.

I'm not for throwing out the chance for treatment discoveries and progress because the discovery behind it would lead to pinpointing autism before birth and cause abortions. Your argument that the prenatal test would cause abortions is the same argument that the hardline prolifers use to lobby against all prenatal testing for anything that isn't easily curable. That group would have us not test for many very serious problems which cause a very low quality of life, pain and suffering, and unavoidable death at a very young age, because many parents choose to abort a baby who is very sick with low chance of recovery. Many parents also tend to abort babies with a moderately severe problem as well, and some abort even when there just a good chance that the child will be moderately or mildly affected no matter what the problem is. I agree that many parents are too quick to choose abortion because of problems with the baby, but because abortion is legal, parents can choose to abort for whatever reason they wish to, but it is a difficult decision and one that is rarely made lightly. There are parents who wouldn't abort, and I believe fewer would as more is known about autism and treatments for it are developed. If researchers hands are tied because discovery would lead to more abortions, then that greatly lessens chances for new treatments to be found. I'm happy to take my chances on the number of abortions if that means effective treatment is possible for those who are already born with autism, no matter what level of functioning they have, and those who will be born afterwards. The better the treatments available for autism, the less it is seen as a tragedy and the higher the chances that the number of abortions for it will lessen.

Again, I feel that it's a conspiracy theory because people are assigning motive to a group which has never stated such motive and assigning opinions to them which they also never stated. I also don't think it's a horrible, evil thing to want to develop a test for autism so parents could choose whether or not to have the baby, because it is just as valid a test and an option as for Down Syndrome, spina bifita, and many other issues. I think it's only horrible and evil in the sense that abortion is a horrible thing to have to choose to do and it's not anything that anybody wants, but is something that people choose because they feel that it's the best choice at the time. I don't think abortion is wrong and while I think that some reasons for abortion aren't very good reasons, I don't think we can choose to allow abortions for only certain reasons. Doing so would be a slippery slope back to criminalizing it. So unless you want to limit abortion to only certain reasons, or you want to stop possible progress toward better treatment for it, you have to take the bad with the good, and in this case that means accepting that some parents will choose to abort autistic babies. I know that if I had a very low functioning child I would be glad to accept that possibility if it meant even a possibility for better treatment for my child.


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28 Jan 2015, 11:22 am

Basically, I consider something a conspiracy theory when someone asks "What are you doing?" and when they get an answer they say "Why are you doing it?" and when they get an answer they say "Well you say you are doing this but you are really doing that and you say you are doing it for this reason but you are really doing it for that reason." In other words, completely disregarding most of the information they were given and twisting it around to fit into some kind of predatory motive and action. Thats why I consider it paranoid too.

An example would be a city that badly needed an extension on a highway. They call in city planners and they find the most efficient and cheapest route for it. It so happens that that route goes right through a low income area that is mainly a certain group of people. It doesn't matter which group, but I'll use Asians for this example. The conspiracy theory would come about when the city announced it's plans and explained why they chose the route they did, which would displace many Asian families. When the conspiracy group heard this they would say "They say they need this extension but people can still get to the highway without it. They are only doing this to harass the Asians living here. The government doesn't want Asians here, you can tell this because they haven't implemented any programs specifically for Asian people and there are no Asian markets around here and no Asian owned businesses. This is how they decided to make Asians move. This city is trying to run Asians out of town!" That kind of reminds me of this Autism Speaks thing, and thats why I think it's a conspiracy theory. I could be wrong, I never said I'm 100% sure I'm right, but I don't think I'm wrong. If I am, I'll admit it though.


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28 Jan 2015, 7:29 pm

I heard back from Autism Speaks today. A lady called me back this morning, which was good because I haven't had a quiet moment to call them back yet. I was about to run some errands but I had about 15 minutes and we discussed two or three of the issues that have been brought up here, and I have her email address and she has mine and I'm going to put together another email for her with more questions and specific concerns.

I asked her if they were doing research to isolate the autism gene so that a prenatal test could be done for it. She told me that they are doing many types of research and because there seem to be more than one gene involved and it would be very difficult if not impossible to test each and every one of those genes in a prenatal test just to determine if a baby was on the spectrum or not. She said that as a parent of an autistic child she understands those concerns and that they are valid but that as far as she knows there isn't a prenatal test to determine autism in the works. She also said that they were doing lots of research and there is a link on their page that shows you what the grants they have gotten are used for and who funded it, etc. She emailed me the links to this because I wasn't near the computer to follow her instructions for looking it up. When I check my email I'll post that link here.

I asked about the doom and gloom advertising and she said that they are aware of that concern and that the ad in question (with the playground, how autism steals your child, etc) was a mistake. She even told me how when she saw the ad she was very upset and cried because she was very discouraged about her child. She said they are taking things in different directions now and don't have as many ads right now except for mainly awareness and they do focus on children but they aren't like the ad in question. She said that they were considering ads showing higher functioning adults and children. We talked some more about it, but I honestly can't remember everything she said and I don't want to misquote her so I'll wait until we exchange emails before I post more about it.

I asked about having autistic people working for them and she said they do have autistic people on staff. They have many adults with AS working for them.

I asked about services for adults and she said that they do have some adult resources and one of the things they are planning with their new budget increase is adding more resources for adults both high and low functioning.

While that only took about a minute to read, the conversation lasted about 15 minutes. I enjoyed talking with her and she was very open and answered all my questions without evasion and I believe that she told me exactly what she knew (and I don't believe they are hiding things from staff either). She was very eager to continue the conversation and we agreed to do so via email and I do have her number in my phone from when she called me.

I told her exactly why I wanted to know this and explained that there was a lot of concern in the autistic community over these and other issues with them. She said they are aware of those concerns and animosity and would like to address the issues. I told her up front that I have AS and even though she works for Autism Speaks she certainly didn't "dumb down" her conversation for me or talk to me like I couldn't understand or anything like that, so I sensed no dislike of people with autism from talking to her. I told her that I didn't understand the animosity that others I knew had toward them but she said she did and it's understandable and it's something that needs to be resolved and that she nor anyone she knows there would want to cause those feelings.

We touched on the need for much more education about high functioning adults and also the need for education about what autism is not, as well as what it is. There really isn't anything I can quote you from that because it was more of just a general conversation about it rather than specific to Autism Speaks.

Anyway, I'll post the link she sent me when I check my email, and I'll be working on getting together some questions for her which I'll email her next week or so. I'm considering starting another thread so that others can post their questions and I can pass them on.

So, that's what I got today in about 15 minutes.


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28 Jan 2015, 7:52 pm

Well it sounds like they are responsive to the criticism they've received, so that's good. A change in the direction of their advertising would be well received, I think.



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28 Jan 2015, 9:00 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
As for why I call it a conspiracy theory, it's because I feel that it is.

Yes it will give parents the opportunity to decide for themselves about whether or not to terminate, and yes I think that the majority of them will.

I also don't think it's a horrible, evil thing to want to develop a test for autism so parents could choose whether or not to have the baby, because it is just as valid a test and an option as for Down Syndrome, spina bifita, and many other issues.

Doing so would be a slippery slope back to criminalizing it. So unless you want to limit abortion to only certain reasons, or you want to stop possible progress toward better treatment for it, you have to take the bad with the good, and in this case that means accepting that some parents will choose to abort autistic babies.

This explains everything.

AS is not comparable with spina bifida.... It's comparable with amazing abilities, and unique variations that have been a driving force in our species development, that's what you're OK with aborting, due to the vile stigmas you cling to.

There's a big difference between elective abortion, and selective abortion. No, it's not abortion, we need to start calling it what is it, eugenic elimination.

In civilised countries it IS illegal. In other places, where they have problems with ethics, it's a problem. In India for example, girls are considered only a transient part of the family that won't contribute much.

If aborting AS people is acceptable and ethical, hey, why stop there? Why not abort when it doesn't match the hair colour you wanted? What about eye colour, everyone likes blue eyes right. How about a smart baby? Why not abort it if the baby won't have a high level of intelligence. Boys are so much easier to raise, and hey why not.



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28 Jan 2015, 10:48 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
There are plenty of NT's who are interested in the same special interests we are. There are plenty of NT's who have obsessive interests in things as well, so obsessive interest isn't just caused by AS. There are plenty of NT's who have the same sensory likes and dislikes we have but they are usually not as pronounced and severe.

Autism doesn't make you intelligent, it doesn't make you logical, it doesn't make you stupid, it doesn't make you slow, people are who they are whether they are autistic or not, whether they are smart or stupid, logical or illogical, magically changing their autistic status won't change that. However it would get rid of a lot of limitations they have that interfere with living their lives. Equating it with your personality is not fact. You would still have your personality whether or not you were autistic. You would of course be different somewhat but thats because you would be a person who hadn't been shaped by the limitations that autism put on you.


Congratulations for disregarding science.....

http://www.sciencealert.com/in-people-w ... dy-reveals

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-12937009

Seriously though, I wouldn't at all believe that if I didn't have autism, somehow my brain wouldn't be affected. Look, I understand what you're trying to say, but if there are various scientific studies that back at how autism effectively does shape interests, than I'm going to be inclined to believe such.