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downbutnotout
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11 Jan 2015, 2:20 pm

If people could separate such a movement from everything that's wrong with ones like MRA, they might have something. Assuming it's true and that's all there is to the law, I think it's ridiculous that men can't work as kindergarten teachers. Both sexes can be pedophiles, and there's no reason to assume that someone is just because they like little kids. There are a lot more loving fathers, uncles, and grandfathers than child molesters out there.



drh1138
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11 Jan 2015, 8:49 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Things that sucks for boys:

We have to war
Less mercy to us
More time in prision of the same crime a girl does
We are not allowed to feel bad
More males gets attacked in a violent way (often from other males)
Its harder for us to get sex and partners
Males must be tough, strong, tall, good trained, much money, cool job, many friends, funny, good clothes etc.
Here in Sweden males cant work on kindergarden becuse of fear of Pedophilia
We are getting accused for being violent, hating on women, and loving sex
Etc.


The better majority of those problems are caused or promoted by men in the first place. A few (attracting sex partners) are non-problems that nobody has any inherent 'right' to (speaking as a heteroromantic asexual person).

Feminism is for equality of the sexes. This kind of s**t is almost always a mask for reactionary MRA malarky.



adifferentname
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11 Jan 2015, 9:47 pm

drh1138 wrote:
The better majority of those problems are caused or promoted by men in the first place. A few (attracting sex partners) are non-problems that nobody has any inherent 'right' to (speaking as a heteroromantic asexual person).


Even if we accept your flawed premise for a moment, this is a clear example of misandric victim-blaming.

Quote:
Feminism is for equality of the sexes.


Tell that to the Duke Lacrosse team.

While you're busy trying to wriggle out of that by claiming that the entire campus and the 88 professors who were baying for their blood weren't representative of "real feminism", kindly explain why large numbers of feminists are calling for the rights of men who are accused of rape to be suspended.

How about something more mainstream? "Teach men not to rape" is on a par with "teach muslims not to murder" or "teach black people not to steal".

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This kind of s**t is almost always a mask for reactionary MRA malarky.


You mean the MRA's that are a near-perfect ideological reflection of feminism (aka the MRM) or is this the straw-MRA title applied to anyone who disagrees with your bigoted doctrine?



drh1138
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11 Jan 2015, 10:18 pm

adifferentname wrote:
drh1138 wrote:
The better majority of those problems are caused or promoted by men in the first place. A few (attracting sex partners) are non-problems that nobody has any inherent 'right' to (speaking as a heteroromantic asexual person).


Even if we accept your flawed premise for a moment, this is a clear example of misandric victim-blaming.

Quote:
Feminism is for equality of the sexes.


Tell that to the Duke Lacrosse team.

While you're busy trying to wriggle out of that by claiming that the entire campus and the 88 professors who were baying for their blood weren't representative of "real feminism", kindly explain why large numbers of feminists are calling for the rights of men who are accused of rape to be suspended.

How about something more mainstream? "Teach men not to rape" is on a par with "teach muslims not to murder" or "teach black people not to steal".

Quote:
This kind of s**t is almost always a mask for reactionary MRA malarky.


You mean the MRA's that are a near-perfect ideological reflection of feminism (aka the MRM) or is this the straw-MRA title applied to anyone who disagrees with your bigoted doctrine?


It's largely been men who created the State, propagated it under sword and gun, brought with it their thieving taxes and regulations, started and waged wars, and enforced gender roles including the aforementioned emotional suppression of males as a cultural image.

State and patriarchy are one and the same, and many men do suffer for it; the fact that so many within feminism are drawn to the Left is what I find tragic in all of this. Liberty-minded ideologies and parties have sadly and unfortunately ignored the critics.



Dillogic
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11 Jan 2015, 11:21 pm

Radical Islam?

That's hyper masculine, and it's been growing as a response to perceived Western degenerate behavior.

Revived Russian nationalism appears to be similar to some extent, albeit not as extreme.



Jono
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12 Jan 2015, 3:07 am

white_as_snow wrote:
Masculism is the oppsite to Feminismen.

As we all know, feminismen is big today.

Do we need Masculism? Will it grow?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

We hear many people cry about how bad girls have it.....

Things that sucks for boys:

We have to war
Less mercy to us
More time in prision of the same crime a girl does
We are not allowed to feel bad
More males gets attacked in a violent way (often from other males)
Its harder for us to get sex and partners
Males must be tough, strong, tall, good trained, much money, cool job, many friends, funny, good clothes etc.
Here in Sweden males cant work on kindergarden becuse of fear of Pedophilia
We are getting accused for being violent, hating on women, and loving sex
Etc.

Discuss.


It's mostly a backlash movement to feminism, so it probably won't.



cberg
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12 Jan 2015, 3:55 am

I'm not sure it's that easy to dismiss as backlash, it's really just an ill-defined half of humanism. There are women who support it far more vehemently than I do, and I'm a guy. Also I think I would contest OP's statement that we're discussing the diametric opposite of feminism, it's more or less identical in ideologue, only applied to a different gender. Also I don't really see the point of being affected by anybody's generalizations when it's within my grasp to follow my internalized reasoning rather than societal programming. People on either side of this debate act like they're entitled to separate planets with reproduction occurring at the antipodal point, where we aren't even sure it's possible.

So... here's a thought experiment: VR goggles with 3D webcams mounted on the front. Swap the feeds and put them on a man & a woman. Do we really still lack the technology to get inside one another's heads? At lease we're certainly quite close to that ability...


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adifferentname
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12 Jan 2015, 5:56 am

cberg wrote:
I'm not sure it's that easy to dismiss as backlash, it's really just an ill-defined half of humanism. There are women who support it far more vehemently than I do, and I'm a guy. Also I think I would contest OP's statement that we're discussing the diametric opposite of feminism, it's more or less identical in ideologue, only applied to a different gender. Also I don't really see the point of being affected by anybody's generalizations when it's within my grasp to follow my internalized reasoning rather than societal programming. People on either side of this debate act like they're entitled to separate planets with reproduction occurring at the antipodal point, where we aren't even sure it's possible.


Exactly. Well, almost exactly. You left out the part where everyone believes they're a special snowflake despite having the exact same same doctrine as their peers.

Quote:
So... here's a thought experiment: VR goggles with 3D webcams mounted on the front. Swap the feeds and put them on a man & a woman. Do we really still lack the technology to get inside one another's heads? At lease we're certainly quite close to that ability...


Yep, this is already a thing, though it requires some tactile voodoo to trick the mind.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... odies.html



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12 Jan 2015, 7:44 am

Quote:
We are not allowed to feel bad

Feminism covers this. Do some research on "Toxic masculinity" - The modern day feminists cover issues that affect both genders.
Quote:
Males must be tough, strong, tall, good trained, much money, cool job, many friends, funny, good clothes etc.

This isn't any less true for women. Women are expected to be beautiful, skinny, as well as everything you listed. This is why these kinds of topics are brought up and discussed often among the social justice community. But you see, it's nonsense like
Quote:
Its harder for us to get sex and partners

this, that makes NO one take men's rights seriously. These kinds of statements just make us sound entitled and sexist and it has no place in society. This is what makes "masculism" and "men's rights" just look like an attack on feminism.


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12 Jan 2015, 8:20 am

I don't have a lot to say to the modern generation. They're living inside a carnival, and their natural human instinct to rage against the machine, as it were, is instigated for transparent political and commercial ends. Today the enemy is the feminist counterculture conspiracy in gaming, next it will be the subversive nature of Super Mario's hat. What is he supposed to be, a communist?



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12 Jan 2015, 10:26 am

white_as_snow wrote:
Its harder for us to get sex and partners

I skipped over this... for heterosexuals, surely that is not true by definition?



downbutnotout
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12 Jan 2015, 12:43 pm

You have to consider that most people's first exposure to feminism was in someplace like school, where they read about women's rights in voting, employment, etc. Their impression of radical feminism comes later. Many people's first exposure to "men's rights" is through the Internet, and it can easily be something like the Fat Shaming Week that was started by a website.



Jono
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12 Jan 2015, 3:21 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
Its harder for us to get sex and partners

I skipped over this... for heterosexuals, surely that is not true by definition?


On the one hand, it is actually true that in traditional dating, more pressure is put on men to initiate, so it may be true in that sense. On the other hand, I've seen feminists who encourage and believe that it's empowering for women to initiate dating and relationships. So, feminism does cover this.

Ironically, it's often the MRA's and "masculists" who do the exact opposite by slut-shaming women and that only serves keep the status quo.



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12 Jan 2015, 4:30 pm

MRAs are just a bunch of idiots who think they want traditionalism back without realizing it is just the same as current society. Masculism is just as bad as Fenimism as they both want to be controlled by their biology.

Feminism is an irrational organization since they do not let you question the female thought process without being labelled. However, where many people blame feminism as the cause of all evil, I believe it is female nature that causes such problems. Females have a known group preference due to evolution and have any easy time switching mate due to the past days where they had to join their conquers to survive. Hence, we need to look at female nature to help females to rise past their biology.



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12 Jan 2015, 4:59 pm

The thing that most feminist organizations seem to have in common is that they're so anti-white, they make the Black Panther Party look like the KKK. The Western white man is the oppressor, the brutish guardian of the status quo that's keeping women down. Tribal savages and the 'spiritual' Muslim man are immune to criticism and get a free pass for everything that they decry about Western men.

Expecting women to work as many hours as men for the same salary is misogynistic tyranny. Not allowing them to drive, forcing them to wear bed sheets and having them compete with the camel and the goat for the nr. 2 spot in the household hierarchy is a-ok.



adifferentname
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12 Jan 2015, 7:28 pm

Icyclan wrote:
The thing that most feminist organizations seem to have in common is that they're so anti-white, they make the Black Panther Party look like the KKK. The Western white man is the oppressor, the brutish guardian of the status quo that's keeping women down. Tribal savages and the 'spiritual' Muslim man are immune to criticism and get a free pass for everything that they decry about Western men.

Expecting women to work as many hours as men for the same salary is misogynistic tyranny. Not allowing them to drive, forcing them to wear bed sheets and having them compete with the camel and the goat for the nr. 2 spot in the household hierarchy is a-ok.


Surely not! Isn't it a requirement that before you become a feminist you must spend a year in a war-torn, Sharia run country holding a sign with "Ban the Burqa" written upon it?

I mean, you can't possibly be suggesting that modern feminism is an extremist hate group who wouldn't know oppression if it snuck up behind them, hit them over the head with a blackjack and put them to work in the bilge, can you?