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thomas81
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12 Jan 2015, 12:38 pm

So as both French and global neo liberals and social reactionaries collectively fap over the image of islamic militants being showered with a hail of pencils under the false flag of 'free speech', they forget about this case not from more than a decade ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/m ... rance.arts


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thomas81
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12 Jan 2015, 12:45 pm

....meanwhile....

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/10/7524731/fr ... rlie-hebdo


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Icyclan
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13 Jan 2015, 1:36 pm

He's not even convicted yet. When he is, then you can throw a self-righteous hissy fit for the poor, oppressed minority.

Don't beat around the bush by digging up ten year old articles, just go ahead and say what we already know: you think those cartoonists deserved to die for mocking your beloved prophet.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Jan 2015, 1:41 pm

That song is the verbal version of some of Charlie Hebdo pictures.



Jules_Bonnot_1912
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13 Jan 2015, 1:52 pm

I think he took the wrong article to proof his point, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Only today I read an opinion article on this case which pointed out that the French governement closed down Hara-Kiri (pre-Charlie Hebdo, around 1970) when they made fun of the death of Charles de Gaulle and an attack on a night club. The French government used the opportunity to shut them down ... nowadays they were/are the heroes of free speech? That does seem like selective amnesia on part of the French government ...


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Jan 2015, 2:08 pm

People who want to talk dirty or draw pornographic images hide behind things because they don't seem to have the guts to say, I want to talk dirty and draw pornographic images.

It's not pornography, it's satire.

It's not talking dirty, it's a song about politics.

What bs. Just call it what it is. If you want to do that stuff, why not just say? Why hide it behind false fronts like politics and satire?

There are plenty of markets for pornographic graphic novels and talking dirty, I think...



adifferentname
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13 Jan 2015, 5:58 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
People who want to talk dirty or draw pornographic images hide behind things because they don't seem to have the guts to say, I want to talk dirty and draw pornographic images.

It's not pornography, it's satire.

It's not talking dirty, it's a song about politics.

What bs. Just call it what it is. If you want to do that stuff, why not just say? Why hide it behind false fronts like politics and satire?

There are plenty of markets for pornographic graphic novels and talking dirty, I think...


Did you make it your new year's resolution to become the world's worst art critic? If so, you're doing a bloody good job so far.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Jan 2015, 7:19 pm

adifferentname wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
People who want to talk dirty or draw pornographic images hide behind things because they don't seem to have the guts to say, I want to talk dirty and draw pornographic images.

It's not pornography, it's satire.

It's not talking dirty, it's a song about politics.

What bs. Just call it what it is. If you want to do that stuff, why not just say? Why hide it behind false fronts like politics and satire?

There are plenty of markets for pornographic graphic novels and talking dirty, I think...


Did you make it your new year's resolution to become the world's worst art critic? If so, you're doing a bloody good job so far.

No but one of them is to try and stick with the topics 8)



AspieOtaku
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13 Jan 2015, 7:53 pm

People go apeshit over stupid crap all the time just because something offends you doesnt mean its ok to go apeshit and kill people over something stupid like a cartoon. It reminds me of this video of muslims reacting like rabbid chimps over a video and attacking people. If I was in the same scenario I would have just got up and left and say to the guy who made the video that hes an as*hole and be on my merry way. More reasons I no longer have faith in a god or diety in a book that teaches to judge and hate others and stone people and such its barbaric and primitive and brainwashing. The Old Testament and the Koran are basically the same thing. Imo Cave men were more civilized before the rise of such Abrihamic religions.


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adifferentname
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13 Jan 2015, 8:22 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
People who want to talk dirty or draw pornographic images hide behind things because they don't seem to have the guts to say, I want to talk dirty and draw pornographic images.

It's not pornography, it's satire.

It's not talking dirty, it's a song about politics.

What bs. Just call it what it is. If you want to do that stuff, why not just say? Why hide it behind false fronts like politics and satire?

There are plenty of markets for pornographic graphic novels and talking dirty, I think...


Did you make it your new year's resolution to become the world's worst art critic? If so, you're doing a bloody good job so far.

No but one of them is to try and stick with the topics 8)


Implying that my criticism of your criticism of the work of the artists mentioned in the OP is off-topic? Let me rephrase it, so as to fall within your narrow parameters.

Your personal opinion of the value of a piece of art, whether it be musical, cinematic, visual or otherwise does not constitute a valid argument for the censorship of said art. When your argument can be refined to "I don't understand the artistic merits of this so it has none", you actually have no argument.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Jan 2015, 8:29 pm

adifferentname wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
People who want to talk dirty or draw pornographic images hide behind things because they don't seem to have the guts to say, I want to talk dirty and draw pornographic images.

It's not pornography, it's satire.

It's not talking dirty, it's a song about politics.

What bs. Just call it what it is. If you want to do that stuff, why not just say? Why hide it behind false fronts like politics and satire?

There are plenty of markets for pornographic graphic novels and talking dirty, I think...


Did you make it your new year's resolution to become the world's worst art critic? If so, you're doing a bloody good job so far.

No but one of them is to try and stick with the topics 8)


Implying that my criticism of your criticism of the work of the artists mentioned in the OP is off-topic? Let me rephrase it, so as to fall within your narrow parameters.

Your personal opinion of the value of a piece of art, whether it be musical, cinematic, visual or otherwise does not constitute a valid argument for the censorship of said art. When your argument can be refined to "I don't understand the artistic merits of this so it has none", you actually have no argument.


It is because you are not commenting on the song or story thomas posted. You are commenting on what I posted about the song or story thomas posted. That is what you could call off topic *nods* yes. The point of this thread is not to dig at each other about what we believe it's to talk about what we each think of the song and story and how it relates to free speech in France.

I merely commented my thoughts about both the song lyrics and the pictures in CH.



AspieOtaku
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14 Jan 2015, 1:08 am

Free speech is free speech sadly even if it means to be an offensive as*hole its still free speech! You can say all white people are evil and burn in hell or all black people should burn in hell and get away with it sure its offensive and hate speech but it is free speech although I dont reccomend using hate speech of anykind it is not my choice!


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Kraichgauer
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14 Jan 2015, 1:23 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
People go apeshit over stupid crap all the time just because something offends you doesnt mean its ok to go apeshit and kill people over something stupid like a cartoon. It reminds me of this video of muslims reacting like rabbid chimps over a video and attacking people. If I was in the same scenario I would have just got up and left and say to the guy who made the video that hes an as*hole and be on my merry way. More reasons I no longer have faith in a god or diety in a book that teaches to judge and hate others and stone people and such its barbaric and primitive and brainwashing. The Old Testament and the Koran are basically the same thing. Imo Cave men were more civilized before the rise of such Abrihamic religions.


Reminds me of Robert DiNiro's line from Angel Heart: "They say there's enough religion in the world to make men hate one another, but not enough to love."


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adifferentname
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14 Jan 2015, 1:34 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

It is because you are not commenting on the song or story thomas posted. You are commenting on what I posted about the song or story thomas posted. That is what you could call off topic *nods* yes.


Hardly. Had I gone off on a rant about cheese prices, that would be off topic. Responding to your notions on the subject matter is an expansion of an already tangential point.

Quote:
The point of this thread is not to dig at each other about what we believe it's to talk about what we each think of the song and story and how it relates to free speech in France.


The point of this thread is to discuss a suggested hypocrisy, not your ill-conceived notion of what constitutes meritorious art.

Quote:
I merely commented my thoughts about both the song lyrics and the pictures in CH.


Which rather misses the point of the OP.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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14 Jan 2015, 1:53 am

EXACTLY! It's hypocrisy to call it political satire. Thanks for clarifying things for me :wink:



AspieOtaku
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14 Jan 2015, 3:07 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
People go apeshit over stupid crap all the time just because something offends you doesnt mean its ok to go apeshit and kill people over something stupid like a cartoon. It reminds me of this video of muslims reacting like rabbid chimps over a video and attacking people. If I was in the same scenario I would have just got up and left and say to the guy who made the video that hes an as*hole and be on my merry way. More reasons I no longer have faith in a god or diety in a book that teaches to judge and hate others and stone people and such its barbaric and primitive and brainwashing. The Old Testament and the Koran are basically the same thing. Imo Cave men were more civilized before the rise of such Abrihamic religions.


Reminds me of Robert DiNiro's line from Angel Heart: "They say there's enough religion in the world to make men hate one another, but not enough to love."
Quite true I mean I could upload an equally offensive video about Jesus but most Cristians would just say I am an as*hole and walk out of the room and not attack me. And for that comment I send your wife a pile of pillows for your entertainment hehehe! God also loves pillows hehe!


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