Why Can't We Be Happy Seeking God On Our Own Terms?

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There are many arguments concerning this idea.

One is; there's a standard of God which only exists in Holy books written thousands of years ago and everything else cannot be trusted.

You cannot trust your heart is something religious fanatics have said to me, though I trust mine.

If you do not follow the laws presented in a book like the Old Testament, you are doomed to fail and suffer for all eternity.

Anyone who does not follow must be cast out from those who do.

Laws governments create in order to govern people cannot be trusted because people can create and inact laws that go against fundamental morality, like what happens in states where fascism permeates the governmental architecture.

My question is, is it possible for a society to be morally sound, and I can pretty much say, murder and harming another person is universally thought of as morally bankrupt behavior and should and must be punished, yet something like divorcing a partner and finding another certainly isn't; making art (idols) certainly isn't; having sex with a consensual partner certainly isn't, and all these other little sins are no big deals unless people make them into that.

So why is it people are not accepted for finding God in their own hearts, on their own terms, instead of blindly adhering to and following books that may very well be flawed and dangerous? Why are we not given the freedom to evaluate and to think for ourselves and still be connected to the divine, whatever the divine means for us in particular?

Morals do not inherently exist hence there cannot be a universal moral since a moral has to be created by a being.

God can exist if you believe in the idea of this universe being a simulation and from that logic the being who created this simulation could be classify as a god.

I am.It takes too much effort for most people to determine their relationship with God on their own. They're basically lazy, so following someone else's instructions is more comfortable than searching for God on their own.We do have that freedom, and we always have. No one controls my thoughts. The only drawback to being a free-thinker is that sheeple tend to avoid you when you don't blend in with the herd. I say, "To Hell with them".

FIVE words:

Humans are creatures of habit.

More words:

Humans, overall, are INNATELY and INSTINCTUALLY terrified of losing social status, and church/religion is where many folks find that as long as they go along with traditional beliefs.

Organized religion is a necessary human component when the government does not step in and provide a social net, as government does per the NORDIC MODEL, IN Scandinavian countries.

And in some of these countries that happen to be comprised of mostly 'non-believers', the health of the countries are assessed as great, usually, except for suicides that in my opinion are likely generated for the lack of being able to FEEL, MORE than anything else, and technology CAN RAISE a person that way, if parents are not fully nurturing the children as innately they would, if not attached to work and other materialistic collective ways of living.

And this is particularly crucial in the first 2 years of life.

But always crucial throughOUT life to get the 'love' one needs to survive, like OXYGEN TO LIVE.

Why not replace religion with realization and divine understanding about life itself? Do you know, wheneverChristian religious fanatics read something like that, they think it's a humanist standard and it is at odds with a Biblical One?
Some Christians look and seem miserable while others seem okay. The least judgmental seem the happiest imo.

In going to my Catholic Church for about a year and a half now, without missing a Sunday, most people seem to practice this way of life, whether it is professed openly or not in church, with the traditions of old.

A barometer of that now to me, is that one of the elder deacons started spouting crap about homosexual's behavior as nature associated evil, and the MONSIGNOR put an immediate stop to it, and that was the last time a deacon tried that old Crapola from the past.

Younger folks are leaving that behind, even in the red state area where I live.

But yes, the gray hairs still often hold fast to separatist traditions.

As long as Hope and Love are coming from the pulpit, as it does now, that is all that counts, and I for one, am not going to throw the baby of love out with the bathwater of details to rigidly think like that in opposition.

Love is all that counts to me, as well as a hopeful atmosphere of positivity.

LOVE AND HOPE inspires folks to live on and cooperate with each other, and WHAT truly counts to me, no matter the label of person or religion bringing it to others per inspirational ways of LIVING LIFE GREAT!

Aghogday,
I respect your choice to go but what alienates me is I like art and other things besides just the Christian way. I like Christmas trees, art, statues, I have never been married and don't value marriage for myself so this idea that marriage to one person my entire life is the only possible way to live or I am an apostate or in hell or doomed to a horrible life that only gets worse is something I cannot bear. It's just not the way I am. Christian Religious fanatics pretty much believe if you divorce and remarry you aren't even with your true partner, you are committing adultry and I think people can make mistakes, end up with someone they don't want to be with and find the right one later. I have seen them hound people who divorced and remarried, telling them to go back to their true wife and the one they are with isn't really their wife. I just disagree with that.

I do not entirely condemn the gentle calm of Christianity and this idea we should be kind to each other but I balk at some of the requirements of the fundies and the way they cast people out for not being fanatical enough.

And the thing is, all this is out of the mouth of Jesus in the Bible, his early believers claimed HE said it himself so the Christians who are a little bit more moderate aren't really doing what Jesus said to do, according to whomever wrote those early Gospels. I do not wish to be a devout follower of that kind of religion although I will take the parts I can do from it, like be graceful.

Someone worked out long ago that if we have a sort of anarchy of the mind, there would be chaos in the streets. So they started saying "this is how you must do things." And in our ignorant past, there were two ways to enforce that - with armies or with religion (or both).

Ethics do seem to predate religion though. Some of the oldest writings found, dating back over 4,000 years, have rules and laws which have no religious context.

As for the OP question... I don't need to tell you that we're free to form our own opinions about such things. It's just that others believe they have the real truth, and feel the need to tell you, or correct you. People are also attracted to binary logic - you're either with us or against us - which is one starting point for judgement. And judgement is a cornerstone of religion.

To be clear I do not consider myself belonging to any specific religion.

It is just the best place to go to meet other loving people in my red state locality and share a song with them for now, as singing is most definitely another one of my arts that I enjoy when done as a group effort, even more than solo.

I consider dance and song my real TRUE religion, and always the way I for one connect to Mother Nature TRUE aka GOD2, FULLY AS SUCH.

AND YEAH, I dance in Catholic Church too, as NO ONE STOPS ME from at least swaying my hips and other body parts to the music of life, all places I go and live.

And yeah, I'd like to see 'em say something to me about it, as then THEY WILL REALLY GET AN EARFUL FROM ME in real life, and so far that ain't fun for other folks, overall, as I am much bigger in real life talk.

From a Christian point of view (even though I am Hindu), it all has to do with the concept of Free Will.

Yes, we have Free Will to seek God on our own terms, but if we do that, is the God we are seeking 'real' or just a product of our deluded mind?

It is said that Satan is the master of lies and can even appear to us as God to trick us, so this is why Holy Books exist, so at least we are given instructions and counsel to make sure the God we are seeking is 'legit' (cue Golden Calf here).

I have the same issue - so, the Bhagavad Gita is our holy book...but I am a Shaivite (I worship Lord Shiva) and the Bhagavad Gita is primarily a Vaishnavite text (for those who worship Lord Vishnu as Sri Krishna).

Although The Scriptures give me a moral grounding and are the precursors to understanding God - in the end, God must be experienced 'on my own terms'.

It actually entails losing the concept of an egocentric 'self' or the 'I' in 'I am' and to feel/experience God as a conscious force or sublime intelligence that the whole illusory world is superimposed upon.

Christians would be the very first to say this is 'Satan's way' - however, consider what knowledge was lost to Adam and Eve before they ate that apple? maybe it was the knowledge that Adam and Eve were part and parcel of God and beyond all worldly influence...but the second they ate the apple, they became immersed in the illusion and 'forgot God' - that is, forgetting who/what they were in Spirit.

I am happy I sought Shiva on my own terms - which fully entailed losing what 'my own terms' meant.

i see what you say here as truth.

And the mission of modern day western religions are steeped in historical methods of controlling the 'herd' of thought through repression, oppression, and subjugation of NATURAL GOD GIVEN unique HUMAN NATURES.. through illusory fears.. mostly for material rather than spiritual gain.. WHEN REALITY BECOMES TRUTH.

AND YES.. each person must find their own TRUE WILL OF TRUTH.. as no two humans are more alike than fingerprints of the stars.. sky.. and Milkyway flow...

And i for one.. like the metaphor of i for the source of ego I and the exclamation point of ! to express Spirit.. when i and I and ! become integrated as one force of ONE GOD as Mother Nature True per ALLTHATIS...

BUT of course the symbols for this go on in INFINITY OF THOUGHT......

But anyway.. in my signature line THAT IS WHAT KATiE MiA FredericK!iI.. is for in ending flow...

Along with Kind Autistics Taking in Everything Mindful in Awareness.. per Acronym Symbolism...

And yeah.. Frederick.. for the birth certificate name thingy..

I'm afraid I only have questions and few answers here.

Is the human heart infallible?


It's impossible to completely follow the laws of the OT. The OT gives us "eye-for-an-eye," which has become the standard for Western justice systems. If you ask me, it's why insurance companies exist. The Sadducee sect had a strict literal interpretation of that model, which Jesus criticized them for because they didn't bother to read anything else as to how "eye-for-an-eye" was to be implemented. The OT laws for the MOST part call for the repentance of the sinner, and the sacrificial atonement system emphasizes mercy over the law, also symbolized by the mercy seat placed over the ark of the covenant (containing the law) in the Holy of Holies. The Christian view is that we are already doomed to fail and suffer for all eternity. Only through grace can we escape suffering.

The Christian answer is if you believe, just stay calm and do your best to be a good person. You don't have to worry about hell, so simply focus on being the best emulation of Christ that you can. If you slip up, it's not THAT big a deal…just try not to do that again.


ANYONE? What about those seeking forgiveness? What about those who acknowledge the wrong they do and genuinely repent? I'm not even talking about the New Testament, just the OT. Were there not sacrifices one could bring to show their desire to repent? What about people who had been cast out but now desire to be a part of God's chosen? They couldn't possibly come back through repentance?

Something that disturbs me about Christianity is the lack of church discipline. We don't call each other out on the wrong that we do and the pain we cause each other sometimes. Granted, there'd be fewer people in church if we kicked out all the people refusing to change their way of life. But I think if we did that, you'd have more people who are supportive of each other, who reach out to those living inconsistently with the Bible, and less judgmental. Plus, I think there'd be more unity, whereas most congregations probably have some element of division within the congregation. SOME churches or sects do rigorously implement discipline and are a strong fellowship. But what makes me sad is the way in which they carry out discipline and their attitudes towards the rest of humanity is hateful and devoid of compassion…and some of them are downright unbiblical. *sigh*


Is it only fascism, though? I don't think your form of government really matters. As long as there have been governments, there has been government corruption and pervasive immorality. Even the OT acknowledges this by detailing how Israel/Judah lost their way in the kingdom period.


Well, that's not a question that can be answered. Why did God allow divorce? There's a fine line between art and idols, and, honestly, an idol is any physical object to which we give more reverence than God. Also, I think prohibitions against sex even outside marriage are vastly misunderstood. Premarital sex in the Bible isn't automatically punishable by death.

What is a "little sin"? If you pay attention to the OT, ALL sin is deserving of death. It's mercy that demands restitution through equivalency. OT justice breaks down into "you break it, you bought it." That's only fair. Substitutionary sacrifices demonstrated that WE should have died for our sins, and the shedding of innocent (non-human) blood visually represents our place in God's order. I mean, there is no such thing as a "little sin" if an innocent blood sacrifice is required to cover it.


Depends on the book. ARE those books actually flawed and dangerous? I'm open to the possibility, but I have my doubts that they necessarily are.


Well, we HAVE the freedom to evaluate and think for ourselves. The thing is, why is it necessary that if we "evaluate and think for ourselves" that our definition of what the "Divine" is would be any different from the Judeo-Christian idea of the Divine? Can you "evaluate and think" for yourself and conclude that Yahweh and Christ are God? Why does evaluating and thinking for yourself necessarily mean rejecting Yahweh/Christ?