"First kiss" locations/logistics

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Stargazer43
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15 Jan 2015, 10:12 pm

I have a question that I've never quite figured out entirely. So let's say you've gone out on 3-4 few dates with someone, and you think you're ready to kiss them. Where exactly do you do it? If we go out to a restaurant or something, typically at the end of the date we're in a public parking lot with at least 5-10 other people in the immediate vicinity. My main question is whether it's better (or appropriate) to go for the kiss in a similar unromantic and potentially public setting sooner, or keep waiting for future dates when you both find yourself in a more private and appropriate setting.

I guess my concern is that it seems like the vast majority of people have a cutoff, where they say "if there's no kiss by 'x' date I'm not going to see him anymore". For some it's the first date, for others it's the 5th, but it seems to be a pretty common sentiment. I worry that if I don't try to kiss them, there may not be a follow-up date...even if there doesn't seem to be a good opportunity for a kiss.

Any thoughts? And please don't say the advice I always hear, which is "Just kiss when it feels right". I say that because for me, it never feels right - it's basically something I have to force myself to do the first time since it's a very nerve-racking and anxiety-inducing experience for me...if I wait until it feels right I'll just be waiting forever!



RetroGamer87
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16 Jan 2015, 1:43 am

The thing that always bugs me is you can't kiss her in the restaurant itself because girls typically sit on the oppisite side of the table.

Stargazer43 wrote:
So let's say you've gone out on 3-4 few dates with someone, and you think you're ready to kiss them.
My main question is whether it's better (or appropriate) to go for the kiss in a similar unromantic and potentially public setting sooner, or keep waiting for future dates when you both find yourself in a more private and appropriate setting.[/quote]Can't you incorporate that into the planning off your 3rd or 4th date? If you think such a setting is needed, don't take her to another restaurant.

Or... I can think of some unpopular restaurants where one could be almost alone with a girl. That might work (just don't sit on the opposite side of the table).
Stargazer43 wrote:
I guess my concern is that it seems like the vast majority of people have a cutoff, where they say "if there's no kiss by 'x' date I'm not going to see him anymore". For some it's the first date, for others it's the 5th, but it seems to be a pretty common sentiment.
I'm sure that's true, girls don't like it if you leave it too late but how do you tell it's not too early?


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AngelRho
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16 Jan 2015, 5:56 am

I seem to have a unique dating philosophy, so my opinion probably doesn't really count. All the same, here it goes…

In conventional dating, if things are really cooking, chemistry is good, etc., the first kiss needs to happen on the 3rd date. This is really more of a cultural norm, but any time sooner and it's, like, "I don't even know you." Later, and it's like, "OK, you always leave someone hanging?"

My definition of a "date" is so loose, though, that it includes pretty much any kind of pre-arranged appointment to spend time with a moos. For me, there's no set limit on when you can have a first kiss one way or the other, and for me it means putting it off until there's no doubt that the relationship is going exclusive. Rather than counting dates, I look at it more formulaically, i.e. how many times we've gone out relative to how long we've known each other…and how long we've known each other is more important than the number of "date-dates" we've had. If things are really hot with someone, there's a progression of physical contact. When you're just friends, you shake hands. Later on, it's a pat on the back or shoulder. Then it's the old around-the-shoulder hug. Then full-on body-hug. Then a kiss on the cheek. And if things are that physical (and there's more of an emotional connection there), it just seems stupid not to have a "real kiss." I've always been a big fan of the corner-of-the-mouth half-kiss. It's a kiss, but NOT… And if you get there, you're close enough that the other person won't mind a real kiss. But if it's not cool, the other person can say so and you save face. "Oh, my bad." But it's also playful, and some folks think it's hot. Which makes the real deal so much more awesome when you get it. There are other ways of testing the waters, like holding hands. If she lets you hold her hand, chances are she likes you.

As far as WHERE… Well, when I was just first getting to know my wife, she made me WORK for that first kiss. We were in college, and there was this really nice chapel there where we'd go hang out. We knew there wouldn't be anyone there, so it made sense. I'd been trying to kiss her for a long time. She did that whole duck-the-head thing, which had been the norm pretty much since we got together, and I was about ready to write her off. So as we were about to leave, she just grabbed me and stole the initiative. Totally worth waiting for, too.

In "normal" dating, it's a good end-of-night thing when you take her back to her place and walk her to her door. If you want privacy, that's going to work out best.

@Retrogamer: Depends on the restaurant situation. I prefer sitting at booths to tables, and even though I'm married with 3 kids, we prefer to sit together on the same side of the table. If we happen to be without kids at the moment, we still occupy one side of a booth. So kissing at a restaurant could be worked out. But I still wouldn't do that at a restaurant anyway because it's just bad manners. Though not quite so romantic, you do better at a movie theater. Doesn't even have to be the stereotypical back row…people are there to watch a movie, so you're pretty much invisible. But if you kiss at a movie, your timing has to be exceptionally good. If she's actually interested in a preview or the actual movie, a badly timed kiss that causes her to miss an important plot point is pretty much going to ruin the whole night.

Depending on where you live, art galleries can be especially private. NOBODY hangs out at our local public gallery.



Stargazer43
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16 Jan 2015, 6:40 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Can't you incorporate that into the planning off your 3rd or 4th date? If you think such a setting is needed, don't take her to another restaurant.


I usually try to, but it doesn't always work out. For example, if it's raining your options on where you can go are limited (and usually everyone else is also at said options), or sometimes we'll go to a park that's usually pretty quiet and there will be mobs of people there.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I'm sure that's true, girls don't like it if you leave it too late but how do you tell it's not too early?


I'm the wrong person to ask haha, I just imagine that by the 3rd or 4th date it's pretty clear that they are interested in me, and that's kind of past the typical window of where a kiss typically happens, so I figure it's a safe bet by then.



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16 Jan 2015, 10:58 am

AngelRho wrote:
Depends on the restaurant situation. I prefer sitting at booths to tables
Booths eh? You know she suggested the restaurant. And it's one that has booths in the back. I could seat us at a booth or perhaps she would think that was to forward of me... And as you say kissing in a restaurant could be considered bad manners.

Like many here I just can't read girls. As Stargazer43 pointed out there are girls who can't stand to kiss on a first date and there are girls who can't stand not to. If I don't try for a kiss on the first date I might get called a coldfish but if I do try for a kiss on the first date I might get called fresh.
AngelRho wrote:
Depending on where you live, art galleries can be especially private. NOBODY hangs out at our local public gallery.

The local art gallery? The curators already thought of that. That's why they installed anti-makeout seats.

Image

Maybe the cinema would be a good idea for a third or fourth date (after we've run out of things to talk about).


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AngelRho
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16 Jan 2015, 12:52 pm

Excellent points.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Depends on the restaurant situation. I prefer sitting at booths to tables
Booths eh? You know she suggested the restaurant. And it's one that has booths in the back. I could seat us at a booth or perhaps she would think that was to forward of me... And as you say kissing in a restaurant could be considered bad manners.

I'll repeat this often: I don't play games. Forget about being "forward" or "fresh." Keep things simple. If she can't stand being close to you, she doesn't want a kiss. If you sit side-by-side in a semi-secluded booth at a restaurant, you've got a pretty straight shot. It might be bad manners, but you have a little bit of leeway if you're mostly out-of-sight to other patrons and you can get away with it. It allows you to save face, too, if you're wrong and she's, like, no smoochie. She could be, like, "um…no…" and nobody knows what you tried to do or that you got rejected. The main thing is to keep it low-key, private, and quiet.

Not my 1st choice, but it's doable.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Like many here I just can't read girls. As Stargazer43 pointed out there are girls who can't stand to kiss on a first date and there are girls who can't stand not to. If I don't try for a kiss on the first date I might get called a coldfish but if I do try for a kiss on the first date I might get called fresh.

Yeah…this is that whole game-playing thing I'm talking about. Just make it a general rule to give to the third date. What you DON'T want to have happen is end up in those damned-if-I-do-damned-if-I-don't situations. I hate that. If you get called a coldfish or fresh, since it doesn't matter either way, then that relationship has no future. Best to shake hands and just be friends at that point.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Depending on where you live, art galleries can be especially private. NOBODY hangs out at our local public gallery.

The local art gallery? The curators already thought of that. That's why they installed anti-makeout seats.

lol True. But we aren't talking about making out. We're just talking about a first kiss. Where I live, the local arts council has a public gallery. Thing is, only people actually on the arts council even care about it. The doors aren't locked during daytime hours. You just walk in. There's a bench and a chair or so you can sit in for however long you like. Nobody is standing guard. There's a register you can sign if you want, and that's about it. So you're both checking out this totally meaningless postmodern sculpture made out of some exotic animal poo, you casually put your arm around her waist, you're both feeling a little weird and uncomfortable but kinda good at the same time, you don't feel much like talking, you look deep into each others' puppy-dog eyes, and BAM, it just sorta happens.

So what are you doing next week?

You don't have to be able to "read" anyone. Just go for it, take your time, give your partner a chance to opt out (and yourself a chance to save face if this happens), and don't make it more complicated than it has to be.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Maybe the cinema would be a good idea for a third or fourth date (after we've run out of things to talk about).

If you run out of things to talk about, your relationship is in trouble. As in OVER. The only time you stop talking is when you're interesting in doing other things with your mouth, or when talking would be distracting and ruin the moment. The cinema is a horrible idea for a date if you want to get to know each other. But, thing is, communication happens by touch, also, and you can have intimacy at the movies without talking. I generally advise against movies unless you already know each other fairly well. The main trick to successful dating is showing interest in the other person. The way you do that is by keeping the other person talking. If she starts to slow down, you have to be quick. Pick out something she mentioned, no matter how insignificant, and ask about it. Follow whatever branch of that conversation you like on your whim, and she's putty in your hands. Oh, and all people are like that, male and female alike. It's just how we're wired. AS or NT. Doesn't matter. Your listening ability is the best turn-on you have. Movies are great if you just want to hang out and be lazy about it, but they don't move the relationship along as fast as other activities.



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16 Jan 2015, 2:00 pm

Here's a novel idea: why not just ask your date if you can kiss them? I don't mean blurting it out like a maniac, but a quiet whisper in their ear would be a good start. The worst they can do is say "no", after all...


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RetroGamer87
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16 Jan 2015, 4:18 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Yeah…this is that whole game-playing thing I'm talking about. Just make it a general rule to give to the third date.
That sounds like a good plan except, I've never gotten a second date. They always act normal through the first date and then reject me the next day :(
AngelRho wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
The local art gallery? The curators already thought of that. That's why they installed anti-makeout seats.
lol True. But we aren't talking about making out. We're just talking about a first kiss.
Now I get it, don't worry about making out for the time being, just focus on the first kiss.
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Where I live, the local arts council has a public gallery. Thing is, only people actually on the arts council even care about it. The doors aren't locked during daytime hours. You just walk in. There's a bench and a chair or so you can sit in for however long you like.
Doesn't every city have one of those? The one in my city (pictured above) doesn't have very much modern art but it's nice and quite. Aren't all art galleries free? I don't think I've ever had to pay to go in one.
AngelRho wrote:
You don't have to be able to "read" anyone. Just go for it, take your time, give your partner a chance to opt out (and yourself a chance to save face if this happens), and don't make it more complicated than it has to be.
You mean I should do it sort of slowly? You mean she won't be too offended if she has to push me away? Maybe that could work. So long as I don't look like a dork as I'm doing it.

Honestly the whole concept makes me nervous. I mean, I'm not morally against kissing and other forms of intamacy, I'm not asexual but... there's just something nerve-wrecking about it all. Like, even I think she wants to kiss I don't because I'm not 100% certain she wants to kiss and I worry too much about what if she thinks I'm being too forward but then again maybe she'll think I'm a coldfish :?


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Stargazer43
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16 Jan 2015, 6:29 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Here's a novel idea: why not just ask your date if you can kiss them? I don't mean blurting it out like a maniac, but a quiet whisper in their ear would be a good start. The worst they can do is say "no", after all...


That's what I've done thus far, and it has never worked out well...I always got a "thanks but no thanks". I have talked to a decent number of women about this, and they all agree that asking is unromantic, a turnoff, and would make them not want to kiss the person. Yes, I know this was a big debate here for a while and there were people on both sides of the fence, but from what I've seen asking definitely seems to hurt your chances with the majority of women. I do think that asking would be the best thing to do otherwise though, since it ensures that you're both on the same page and prevents any awkward situations.



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16 Jan 2015, 8:25 pm

I sounded like Mr. Spock on Star Trek - or maybe more DAta, becasue at least he was half human and would logically guess, rather than doing what I did - "Do you mind if I kiss you now?"

She was the woman I felt closest to, at age 25 was after she droped me off at home (I'm legally blind so can't drive). She was in education, so while I've always wished I could meet her and explain a few things were because I'm barely onto the spectrum, she might actually guess when she thinks about it.

The next time ws at a dance at a local community c0llege. Okay, I won't say what you told us not to say, but the music and the modd was just right as we danced real close, so it happened. My visual mind gave me a picture of a catcher jogging out to the mound to encourage a pitcher with rookie jitters that he was doing great.

Honestly, I think there is a place for asking "is it okay if I kiss you?" I mean, these days women want respect, from what I've heard, and if you can't read the nonverbal signs, well, I think even someone who *can* should ask just to be safe. She appreciated my asking, anyway. But that'1 second saying "good night" and not the 4-5 second kiss that happens during a slow dance. that, I think does just come naturally.

So, I think there's a social nuance between the "good night" and the dance and everywhere else is somewhere in between. At least in my experience, it wasn't the asking that turned her off - it was the fact after 4-5 months the excitement died and I didn't know how to keep it ging (which is okay, that happens to NTs also as not everyone you go with is destined to be a future mate) and becuse her dad, whi had divorced her mom, didn't seem to like me or my faith. But, i didn't really know how to verbalize that to her.

Ah, well, it's just as well. If the exctiement had worn off then it probably had for her, too, and she was just a good friend who I went with for a while. And, that's the key, and the confusion abut kissing. If you're really close in your relationship with someone, asking "may I kiss you?" is jsut something to laugh about later, one of those nuances like leaving the toilet seat up or squeezing from the middle of the toothpaste tube.

So, maybe the key is to ask not at the moment when you're about to kiss, but at a lighter time, when you're in the middle of date number 'x' and laughing about some other subject. Say, "By the way, "I've been wondering about kissing...' Because then, you're not in danger of "ruining a romantic moment" in their eyes.



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16 Jan 2015, 11:35 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You don't have to be able to "read" anyone. Just go for it, take your time, give your partner a chance to opt out (and yourself a chance to save face if this happens), and don't make it more complicated than it has to be.
You mean I should do it sort of slowly? You mean she won't be too offended if she has to push me away? Maybe that could work. So long as I don't look like a dork as I'm doing it.

Yes yes yes take it slow. She may be as nervous as you are - never know. But a casual progression is how you get that moment when you "know it's right" and how she knows it's right, too. Exactly what that looks like will be different for everyone... For me and my partner, it was late at night walking around the park - these highschool girls were trying to be flirty with him, so he used it as excuse to take my hand so they'd get the hint we were together and bug off. Walking around hand-in-hand led to arm-around-waist, then somehow we ended up in a dark back corner of the park standing face-to-face with arms around each other's waist, and he started a very slow lean-in. It was all one small step at a time so that at any point, I could've even subconsciously discouraged it and he could've stopped no harm done...but I didn't, and it was just the first of many to come. :P It wasn't like sitting across the table from each other and then all of a sudden he just stood up, came over, and stole a kiss - that I think only works well after you break the ice. But piece by piece building up the comfort levels physically works like a charm.


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17 Jan 2015, 2:57 am

Stargazer43 wrote:
I usually try to, but it doesn't always work out. For example, if it's raining your options on where you can go are limited (and usually everyone else is also at said options), or sometimes we'll go to a park that's usually pretty quiet and there will be mobs of people there.


You're doing it wrong. Plan a picnic, works everytime. You'll be seen as romantic for doing so and well if the weather is inclement guess you too will have to huddle in a car, somewhere scenic listening to the rain.... :lol:


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17 Jan 2015, 3:03 am

Stargazer43 wrote:
That's what I've done thus far, and it has never worked out well...I always got a "thanks but no thanks". I have talked to a decent number of women about this, and they all agree that asking is unromantic, a turnoff, and would make them not want to kiss the person.


I agree with this. Even if I wanted to kiss the guy the fact he's done this is just making me feel all kinds of awkward and I'd be inclined to say 'no' out of reflex in order to break the uncomfortable moment. Knowing it's coming is just so weird. Like I say...okay. Now what do you do? Would you not now feel pressured to perform knowing that I am now watching you make a move?


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AngelRho
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17 Jan 2015, 2:59 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Yeah…this is that whole game-playing thing I'm talking about. Just make it a general rule to give to the third date.
That sounds like a good plan except, I've never gotten a second date. They always act normal through the first date and then reject me the next day :(

Keep plugging at it. If you keep at it, you'll eventually get more dates. Just be happy you at least get a first date. Plenty of folks on here have trouble enough with just that.


RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
The local art gallery? The curators already thought of that. That's why they installed anti-makeout seats.
lol True. But we aren't talking about making out. We're just talking about a first kiss.
Now I get it, don't worry about making out for the time being, just focus on the first kiss.

Well, for the purpose of this thread, yes. It COULD turn into a make out session. I'm just not assuming that it would. But, all the same, a restaurant is not the place to have your tongue down your date's throat; an art gallery is not a good place to do anything involving removing clothes…unless, of course, it's an art installation in which having sex as an interaction between the audience and the art object is the whole point, but then you get into issues of public indecency. It's just best not to go there. lol

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Doesn't every city have one of those? The one in my city (pictured above) doesn't have very much modern art but it's nice and quite. Aren't all art galleries free? I don't think I've ever had to pay to go in one.
It's just an example. It's not a big deal. I've made out with girls at the post office and in public libraries before. Nothing is sacred! I tend to go to extremes, though, so I'm not the best example to follow there. Pull those kinds of stunts and you risk getting arrested. Oh, and I won't even talk about what I've done on a turn row in a cotton field. The point being if those kinds of things are possible, a single kiss pretty much anywhere isn't unreasonable. I just think you owe it to yourself, your date, and anyone else out in public not to make a big production of it. Keep it private. If you can't do that, just try to be as unexposed as you can. That's all.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You don't have to be able to "read" anyone. Just go for it, take your time, give your partner a chance to opt out (and yourself a chance to save face if this happens), and don't make it more complicated than it has to be.
You mean I should do it sort of slowly? You mean she won't be too offended if she has to push me away? Maybe that could work. So long as I don't look like a dork as I'm doing it.

It will absolutely work. Look, she'll be more offended if you steal a kiss she's not prepared for and didn't want to begin with. If she puts a hand on your chest or shoulder and pushes you back and says, "wait" or "don't" or "no," then you both can move on and pretend it didn't happen…which it DIDN'T. It might be weird for the next couple of days, but you can still be friends. But, more importantly, why would you want to kiss a girl who doesn't want to kiss you back? I'd RATHER get rejected that way and be able to play it off or laugh it off and still have something of a relationship than completely lose someone I enjoy spending time with. And, too, if that's an indication that you won't be seeing each other anymore, that answers that question and you don't have to waste time better spent exploring those possibilities with someone else.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Honestly the whole concept makes me nervous. I mean, I'm not morally against kissing and other forms of intamacy, I'm not asexual but... there's just something nerve-wrecking about it all.

Well, yeah…it's like that for everyone. I mean, that's the whole point. It's a game. I don't mean PUA "game," but it either will happen or it won't happen; you'll either win or you won't. Everyone gets what they want or they don't. So, yeah, it's a big headache, causes intestinal discomfort, shakiness, and cold sweats. But that's just part of it, and the emotional payoff is HUGE when it works out.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Like, even I think she wants to kiss I don't because I'm not 100% certain she wants to kiss and I worry too much about what if she thinks I'm being too forward but then again maybe she'll think I'm a coldfish :?

Do you want to be with a girl who thinks you're either forward or a coldfish? Why? I'd rather be with someone who actually likes me for ME and either doesn't take issue with my timing or can be patient with me. If those (hypothetical) girls who think you're too forward or are a coldfish don't want more dates with you, trust me, they're doing you a favor.



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17 Jan 2015, 6:08 pm

So do what you can to stage the scenario a bit before a dinner date begins.. park where it's a little more private at the back of the parking lot if you can, wherever will give you a bit better location for a goodnight kiss. Mind you, if your date is also driving and you can't control where they park.. you might just have to grow a pair and go for it even if there are other people around.


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17 Jan 2015, 6:21 pm

I have this favourite bar I like to go for dates, and I park my car a little walk away in a back street, where a goodnight kiss is mostly private (the neighbours are probably watching from their windows, hehe). But you don't have that nice setup, so I'm just thinking about where else I've had a first kiss...on a train platform, in my car as I dropped my date off at the tram stop, my home (date 2 or 3, yeah if we get along I see no prob with them knowing where I live), their home, in a church...

Okay so some are very public, some are very private, some are in between. My conclusion from my brief analysis is don't worry about the location, just figure out the time. When the time is right, do it wherever you are (within reason I guess!).