Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

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ConceptuallyCurious
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24 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

I think it is cruel to suggest that people should die because they are unwilling to risk arson charges. Many areas don't have free barbecues - certainly there's none in my city.



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24 Jan 2015, 12:38 pm

alisoncc wrote:
If a person cannot find somewhere to prepare a simple meal then perhaps they deserve to die...

Good Lord. That's harsh. Sometimes people have executive functioning problems, etc. That's why there are community services.



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24 Jan 2015, 12:40 pm

EmeraldGreen wrote:
alisoncc wrote:
How many here complaining of poverty would even have a clue how to survive in the third world where poverty is far more real.

Alison

Poverty is not more 'real' in third world countries it is just exists on a larger scale and higher concentrations of the lowest of the low when it comes to poverty. I mean what poverty is worse in some other places so the issue should be ignored and treated like a non-issue in this country?

Also it would make sense there isn't so much homeless level poverty around you if you live in a rural area, now if you lived in a city you'd see a lot more of that. Also poor people are not immune to nicotine addiction or cigarette smoking, though their ability to supply themselves with cigarettes would obviously be much more limited. I imagine most people of the U.S regardless of economic class would do well in a third world country especially one where you don't know the language.


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24 Jan 2015, 12:47 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
alisoncc wrote:
Are we talking about survival or having the element of choice. With the latter being able to choose what you eat, what you wear, what car you drive, etc. etc. It is my belief that the OP was talking about survival.

Just about everyone, irrespective of status, has their choices limited in some way. Shall I take a two week holiday in Florida or three weeks? Shall I buy a new BMW/Mercedes or a second-hand Ford. It's only a matter of degree. A few billionaires might have total freedom of choice, but even for them their time may be limited. Can't be in two places at once.

I am 71, born during WWII in the UK when food was rationed. A neighbour would go out early with two pet ferrets and return a few hours later with a gunny sack of dead rabbits. Often throwing a few rabbits over the back fence. When I was young a big pot of rabbit stew was an incredible luxury.

A local golf course is overrun with rabbits. If I was really hard up I wouldn't think twice about laying some snares around the back where no one goes. Just need a few lengths of piano wire. And I would NOT consider rabbit stew to be the ultimate degradation. Quite the opposite I would enjoy it whilst revelling in my own resourcefullness.

People have been feeding themselves from time immemorial, it's called survival. Being able to frequent the local Diner is not a necessity.


That's the whole point of dumpster diving.


Which in many places is illegal and they have designed dumpsters specifically to keep people from dumpster diving in them for scraps... :?


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24 Jan 2015, 1:02 pm

alisoncc wrote:
Picky, picky picky. The flat bread I quoted is most probably the staple food for billions of people around the globe, and I mean billions. The fact that I now make it in a first world kitchen doesn't detract in anyway from the purpose of the posting. I have seen it cooked on a flat stone that had had a small fire lit on top. When the stone was hot enough turn it over so as not to get ash in the bread, a splash of oil of some variety, even camel fat, and place the raw dough on top. Wasn't rolled out as I do, but fingered out.

I mix this dough, enough for the day, everyday first thing in the morning. Doing so enables me to "contain" my budget. My daily version is made with Spelt and Rye wholemeals - It's tasty, nutritious and very cheap.

How many here complaining of poverty would even have a clue how to survive in the third world where poverty is far more real.

Alison


You seem to have the assumption a person at any given time regardless of financial situation is going to have a stock of resources to make it possible to survive in the manner you describe. lighters/matches cost money, that splash of oil would cost money...flour/ingredients costs money. Maybe in the third world it is easier to get those things without money?


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24 Jan 2015, 1:05 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I know a millionaire that ...

-shops at Walmarts and the Dollar Stores.
-buys his clothes at a Thift Store. (There you can get decent used clothes and shoes for under $1).
-buys the Walmarts brand pop (yuck!), and generally no-brand for most other items.
-rarely leaves a tip for anything, and if he is with someone he leaves maybe painfully a $1 tip
-drives a beat up car and does not insure it
-skirts every bill he can get out of
-asks for specials *always*

I imagine Ben Franklin: "a penny saved is a penny earned".


But I'm pretty certain that millionaire you know doesn't have to do all those things. Not so for poor people.


Doesn't have to, but he sees most spending as wasteful.


Then why keep all that money laying around, does it help him sleep at night having that big pile of cash to sit on and refuse to spend, even for so much as tipping a waitress who provides good service, it is this sort of stinginess I never understand from the wealthy. So in effect your friend is helping to stagnate the economic system it appears.


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24 Jan 2015, 1:19 pm

androbot01 wrote:
alisoncc wrote:
If a person cannot find somewhere to prepare a simple meal then perhaps they deserve to die...

Good Lord. That's harsh. Sometimes people have executive functioning problems, etc. That's why there are community services.


Yeah no kidding, especially when you have a lot of people with mental or other disabilities in poverty who might lack the mental capacity to be as resourceful as some with less issues. To suggest they deserve to die is well just cruel...there isn't a place to cook everywhere especially if you're impoverished in an urban area. And as others have pointed out there are plenty of laws to make it difficult to do things that are needed to survive if you're homeless...camping in a park/open space is illegal, making a fire anywhere aside from a designated barbaque pit or whatever is illegal(so if you're not anywhere near a park with those you're out of luck unless you want to risk arrest/charges), its illegal to pee/poop outside even if you take care to go out of site its a 'sex offense' if you get caught and charged and there is a lack of availability of public restrooms so what options to people really have? I might be more sympathetic to the view of someone just dying if they cannot find somewhere to cook a simple meal if there where no laws that got in the way of that and if I was not well aware poverty and mental illness/problems much of the time go hand in hand and that could effect ones ability to be 'resourceful'. It's even illegal to sleep at a bus stop a lot of places here, or even stay at one 'too long'.


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24 Jan 2015, 2:41 pm

alisoncc wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, you're one of those types who believe that poverty isn't real unless it occurs in the Third World, eh? No wonder so many people in the First World starve to death; it's because people like you don't believe that they are really poor!
... If a person cannot find somewhere to prepare a simple meal then perhaps they deserve to die...
Wow. Cold, cruel, and insensitive.

Is your last name "Cornwall"? Did your ancestors organize the An Gorta Mor, as well?


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24 Jan 2015, 3:44 pm

Interestingly enough, the cost of the electricity to cook half a cup of rice cost just as much as the rice.



alisoncc
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24 Jan 2015, 4:53 pm

ConceptuallyCurious wrote:
I think it is cruel to suggest that people should die because they are unwilling to risk arson charges. Many areas don't have free barbecues - certainly there's none in my city.


Nothing wrong with good non-emotional Aspie logic. Unlike the medical professions I don't hold some belief that everybody should live until their very last brain cell has died including being kept alive by technology, as long as someone is prepared to pay and the medic gets his share. Cynical - absolutely. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Someone described the late 20th century as the era of entitlement, obviously referring to the developed world. I have strong belief that that era has come to an end. Far too many countries and their citizens have been living on credit for far too long, with politicians propping up their economies by borrowing money from whomever is prepared to lend. Well the lenders are going to start foreclosing soon.

When reading posts on WP, I mentally categorise contributors as Survivors or Victims. Are they here for help in developing coping strategies that will enable them to move on, or do they see WP as somewhere where they can spread their own brand of negativism whilst looking for someone to blame. Somewhere where they can expand on their sense of entitlement with regard to what the authorities should be doing. They can jump up and down, and run around in circles as much as they wish, nothing is going to change so learn to live with it because it's going to get worse not better.

Nusub: BBQ's in public parks for group social meetings are very common in Australia. Whether for work, sports, extended family, even Aspies. Councils recognising the costs of cleaning up afterwards and potential for fires spreading started providing electric BBQ's in designated areas. Initially they had coin boxes, but councils realised that if people had to pay they would have to maintain them to a higher standard, so removed the coin boxes. Just about every large park where people congregate where I live has free electric BBQ's. Just press a button and they heat up quite quickly, staying on 20mins or so, if necessary you may need to press the button again.


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24 Jan 2015, 5:52 pm

alisoncc wrote:
ConceptuallyCurious wrote:
BBQ's in public parks for group social meetings are very common in Australia. Whether for work, sports, extended family, even Aspies. Councils recognising the costs of cleaning up afterwards and potential for fires spreading started providing electric BBQ's in designated areas. Initially they had coin boxes, but councils realised that if people had to pay they would have to maintain them to a higher standard, so removed the coin boxes. Just about every large park where people congregate where I live has free electric BBQ's. Just press a button and they heat up quite quickly, staying on 20mins or so, if necessary you may need to press the button again.


Here in Belgium it is even illegal to sleep in your own car 8O
Barbecue in the park would be a wash out for the majority of the year too.
And considering I am not even legally allowed to light a bonfire in my own garden without a permit I doubt you would be allowed to do it in a big city public space.



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24 Jan 2015, 6:14 pm

guzzle wrote:
Here in Belgium it is even illegal to sleep in your own car


Exact opposite here. People dozing off whilst driving is a significant problem given the distances we need to travel, so all of our intercity roads have areas set aside for sleeping in your car. These areas are typically well back from the road, have public conveniences and washing facilities to freshen up, and even occasionally electric BBQ's for cooking. There are regular road signs suggesting that drivers should take a break and have a snooze. Back in October, drove over 3000km in the space of a week to visit my daughter and return. It's far to easy to just keep pushing on without taking a break.


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24 Jan 2015, 6:23 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I know a millionaire that ...

-shops at Walmarts and the Dollar Stores.
-buys his clothes at a Thift Store. (There you can get decent used clothes and shoes for under $1).
-buys the Walmarts brand pop (yuck!), and generally no-brand for most other items.
-rarely leaves a tip for anything, and if he is with someone he leaves maybe painfully a $1 tip
-drives a beat up car and does not insure it
-skirts every bill he can get out of
-asks for specials *always*

I imagine Ben Franklin: "a penny saved is a penny earned".


But I'm pretty certain that millionaire you know doesn't have to do all those things. Not so for poor people.


Doesn't have to, but he sees most spending as wasteful.


Then why keep all that money laying around, does it help him sleep at night having that big pile of cash to sit on and refuse to spend, even for so much as tipping a waitress who provides good service, it is this sort of stinginess I never understand from the wealthy. So in effect your friend is helping to stagnate the economic system it appears.


The experts say you need to save several million dollars for retirement if you don't want to work and want to have the same living standard. Now many people have to work until they die.

Where I work, the pension annuity is ~60k USD/year for the rest of my life when I retire, as early as age 57. That is like having 1 to 2 million in the bank to draw down on. This is akin to the above mentioned frugal millionaire.



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24 Jan 2015, 8:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
alisoncc wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, you're one of those types who believe that poverty isn't real unless it occurs in the Third World, eh? No wonder so many people in the First World starve to death; it's because people like you don't believe that they are really poor!
... If a person cannot find somewhere to prepare a simple meal then perhaps they deserve to die...
Wow. Cold, cruel, and insensitive. Is your last name "Cornwall"? Did your ancestors organize the An Gorta Mor, as well?
Maybe I'm thinking of "Cromwell".


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26 Jan 2015, 4:53 am

Quote:
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.


I just tell my son no or say "maybe for Christmas." If he wants that toy real bad, he will still be talking about it but the rest he forgets about and he wants everything on TV so I just say no.

Quote:
Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.


I am lucky my parents got me a good car and even though it needs a lot of work, it's still running and I need to take it to the shop again and we have public transportation and I can use my parents cars.

Quote:
Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.


I hope I never get one.

Quote:
Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends’ houses but never has friends over to yours.


Why?

Quote:
Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.


I didn't grow up poor so I can't relate but I am sure my husband can, he grew up poor. My son isn't in school full day yet.

Quote:
Being poor is living next to the freeway.


Nothing to do with income, I have seen nice homes next to a freeway.

Quote:
Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.


Good thing I am not this poor.

Quote:
Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn’t mind when you ask for help.


Luckily I don't need to ask for help. I assume this means financially.

Quote:
Being poor is off-brand toys.


I am frugal.

Quote:
Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.


Yep I lived this way until we moved into a house.

Quote:
Being poor is knowing you can’t leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.


Never had this happen and I don't have friends anyway. Besides if you have people stealing from you, why do you have these "friends"?

Quote:
Being poor is hoping your kids don’t have a growth spurt.


I understand.

Quote:
Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn’t have make dinner tonight because you’re not hungry anyway.


I also understand and I have read sad stories about moms stealing groceries to feed their kids and when you have kids and get caught doing it, you don't get jail, instead the cop will buy some of your groceries and tell you places to go to for free food

Quote:
Being poor is Goodwill underwear.


Frugal

Quote:
Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.


Yes, been there.

Quote:
Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.


What?

Quote:
Being poor is your kid’s school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.


I didn't use AC in my apartment unless there was a heatwave and what does the school having old textbooks have to do with someone's income?

Quote:
Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.


Yeah but still not enough to make a living.

Quote:
Being poor is relying on people who don’t give a damn about you.


I don;t have anyone but my parents and they give a damn and my inlaws are poor.

Quote:
Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.


I work under fluorescent lights anyway but I work evenings.

Quote:
Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.


We actually kept getting something from human services and I think it was about child support but we never opened it since it was never addressed to us. I think someone used our address to avoid it and then we had a cop in our yard and my husband talked to him.

Quote:
Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.


That tells me I am not that poor.

Quote:
Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger’s trash.


I am not this poor either and I just assume it's busted or why would they throw it away, it would be in the donation bin.

Quote:
Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.


Sad.

Quote:
Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.


How would they know you're poor? This is a stereotype that poor people all dress in rags and are all dirty.

Quote:
Being poor is not taking the job because you can’t find someone you trust to watch your kids.


I don't see how I would survive as a single parent without help. I can see myself not working if I were on my own.

Quote:
Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.


Huh?

Quote:
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.


I hate wasting food.

Quote:
Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually stupid.


Anyone can be poor.

Quote:
Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually lazy.


Duh. I never understood the logic about why anyone would want to be poor. I never ever thought being poor was a choice because if it was so easy to not be poor, people would have gotten out of that situation a long time ago if they didn't like living that way.

Quote:
Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.


This can be anyone because accidents happen. I have once had to wait 4 hours when my son was three days old because we thought he had jaundice and thought he peed blood.

Quote:
Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old.


What?

Quote:
Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.


This sucks. I once got a 0 dollar paycheck because my old work charged me for health insurance and they took all the money out and I only worked like two days a month when everything was slow. What is the point in working if you get nothing to take home?

Quote:
Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.


We have a bed that is busted but we don't have the money to replace the mattress.


Quote:
Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.


Ignorance, naivety.

Quote:
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.


I know this.

Quote:
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.


Yep.

Quote:
Being poor is running in place.


What?

Quote:
Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave.


Leave what? An abusive marriage? This happens to anyone, class has nothing to do with it.


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26 Jan 2015, 5:29 am

I used to think I was poor until I read an article about the poor paying more than the rich. My husband used to tell me "You don't even know what poor is" and he would tell me I live like I am poor and act like we are. He also would call me cheap. Then I read that article and realized I wasn't poor. Yeah we may have lived in an apartment and can't afford to travel or pay for expensive things but those are all luxuries and so is living in a house and having a yard. We could afford to eat and didn't have to worry about not having food, we could pay all our utilities without having anything shut off and we could pay for our phones, we had internet and cable, we could afford to get our car fixed.

I also watched that Extreme Cheapskates show and I realized how cheap I am not because those people were living like they were poor when they were not. Dumpster diving, washing clothes in the shower, peeing in a bottle, getting water from the creek, driving a truck that only goes 15 mils per hour because the transmission was out, and oh boy don't get me started on the gifts they would buy their partners or feeding their guests food they got from the dumpster. Also some had lack of furniture in their home. The difference is none of these people were poor and they could afford the luxury life like laundry and buying food and flushing the toilet, using their own water, how normal people live but they were choosing to not do it while poor people who are that poor don't have a choice. It would still be wrong for a poor person to dumpster dive for food and feed it to their guests.

Reading about being poor really makes me appreciate my life more and not complain about my income and how "poor" I am or "broke."


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