Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

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StagtheStalker
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22 Jan 2015, 3:36 am

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Quote:
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends’ houses but never has friends over to yours.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/



LoveNotHate
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22 Jan 2015, 4:02 am

I know a millionaire that ...

-shops at Walmarts and the Dollar Stores.
-buys his clothes at a Thift Store. (There you can get decent used clothes and shoes for under $1).
-buys the Walmarts brand pop (yuck!), and generally no-brand for most other items.
-rarely leaves a tip for anything, and if he is with someone he leaves maybe painfully a $1 tip
-drives a beat up car and does not insure it
-skirts every bill he can get out of
-asks for specials *always*

I imagine Ben Franklin: "a penny saved is a penny earned".



Janissy
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22 Jan 2015, 8:22 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
I know a millionaire that ...

-shops at Walmarts and the Dollar Stores.
-frugal

Quote:
-buys his clothes at a Thift Store. (There you can get decent used clothes and shoes for under $1).
-frugal
Quote:
-buys the Walmarts brand pop (yuck!), and generally no-brand for most other items.
-frugal

Quote:
-rarely leaves a tip for anything, and if he is with someone he leaves maybe painfully a $1 tip
-jerk behaviour, if they aren't going to tip, they should stay out of establishments where tips constitute a chunk of employees' salary

Quote:
-drives a beat up car and does not insure it
-illegal in the U.S., liability insurance is mandatory
Quote:
-skirts every bill he can get out of
-super jerk since it's an attempt to cheat people out of the money they have earned
Quote:
-asks for specials *always*

-frugal
Quote:
I imagine Ben Franklin: "a penny saved is a penny earned".
- I doubt Ben Franklin would approve of non-tipping, trying to cheat people with bill non-payment and doing something illegal. Franklin was frugal but he was also honest.

Back to the OP:
Those are meaningful observations about poverty. I was "poor" for a few years. I put poor in quotes because it was a self imposed poverty brought on by financing college with student loans so it was only during college and after it until some time after I had got a good enough job to pay off much of the student loans. But while I was a student and for a time after, I was acutely aware of how much everything cost. I knew I had "made it" when I walked into a grocery store and bought something for full price rather than sticking to sale items and carefully totting up those.

Many of the quoted observations are about children. I think it is far harder to be in poverty as a parent or child than as an adult supporting only oneself. For one thing, the money has to be split more ways so it will take a higher salary to lift you out of poverty than a single adult. For another, it's hard to get children to wrap their head around such things. An adult can understand having to make a box of Raisin Bran last. A child really won't, although a child will understand the embarrasment of being the poorest kid in the class/school. A child who attended a school where lunch subsidies were common wouldn't be embarrassed in the least because his friends would all qualify for the free lunch too.



alisoncc
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22 Jan 2015, 8:56 am

I have considerably less money/assets than either of my two brothers or sister, yet I am much healthier and fitter than all three. Whilst they will enter a supermarket without a list of intended purchases and buy whatever catches their eyes, I always have a list and only buy what is on my list. With the net result that I eat far healthier than they do, consuming far less rubbish foods.

There is a belief that we need some stress in our lives to maintain our alertness and mental capacities. There isn't a doubt in my mind that surviving on minimal income is definitely keeping me alive. My siblings and myself are all retired. When I consider the lifestyle their affluence has brought them I shudder, and I have every expectation of attending their funerals as a walking guest.


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22 Jan 2015, 9:11 am

Having lived as a family of four on an income of less than $20,000 per year for a period of 5 years (and one year, it was about $17,000), I agree with the OP.

Having no money = having no choice. You buy what is cheap. You don't buy what is good. There's no money to get ahead of things. You take what is given to you and make do and are grateful for every scrap of whatever it is.

Some stress is good. But the stress of *poverty* is not good. It is not a motivating stress. It is an oppressive stress, the kind that does damage to the mind and the heart, both in a literal and figurative way.

"Beggars can't be choosers" is a true statement.

I am not saying that all poor people are begging (we didn't.) But, still, people might want to help and they give what they can give and you take it, whatever it is. When you *HAVE TO* shop at a thrift store for clothes, you are not able to CHOOSE from the latest fashions. You are not able to CHOOSE healthier foods. You are not able to CHOOSE what kind of car you want. You can't even CHOOSE to be frugal.



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22 Jan 2015, 9:24 am

nerdygirl wrote:
I am not saying that all poor people are begging (we didn't.) But, still, people might want to help and they give what they can give and you take it, whatever it is. When you *HAVE TO* shop at a thrift store for clothes, you are not able to CHOOSE from the latest fashions. You are not able to CHOOSE healthier foods. You are not able to CHOOSE what kind of car you want. You can't even CHOOSE to be frugal.


And if some jerk of a millionaire stiffs you on a tip...... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I always tip big. Hopefully that makes up at least a little for jerks who stiff on tips, especially for any waitstaff supporting a family.



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22 Jan 2015, 9:32 am

When I was homeless, I measured my money (when I had any) in "MacUnits" - how many "Happy Meals" I could buy (all values rounded up).

Bus ride, two-way = 2 MacUnits.

Room for rent for 1 night = 10 MacUnits, minimum (includes shower, soap, towel, bed, and blanket)

Laundromat = 1 to 3 MacUnits, depending on if I could afford to use the dryer

Medicine = 20 MacUnits, minimum, even if it is OTC

1 week's worth of bare living = 7 MacUnits = 1 Happy Meal per day, no bed, no clean clothes, no medicine

At the time, a Happy Meal cost less than $5.00 (US). I did as many odd jobs and errands as my health would allow, and when I got sick, I didn't eat.


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alisoncc
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22 Jan 2015, 9:37 am

Quote:
When you *HAVE TO* shop at a thrift store for clothes, you are not able to CHOOSE from the latest fashions. You are not able to CHOOSE healthier foods. You are not able to CHOOSE what kind of car you want. You can't even CHOOSE to be frugal.


Sorry, but tend to disagree. Having limited funds means you have to be more intelligent about where you spend what you have.

I buy wholesale spelt, rye and buckwheat flours and make my own bread. A 5lb bag of spelt wholemeal flour costs me less than the price of two loaves of cotton wool and sawdust rubbish from the supermarket, and a 5lb bag will make well over a dozen loaves of my bread.

I presume your thrift stores are the same as our "op" shops - selling "recycled" clothing. There was a time when I used to haunt our local "op" shops, always looking for the best fabrics, which I would then remodel using my sewing machine to produce good quality outfits.

When my daughter helped me out with some cash to buy a car, instead of buying a newish tin can on wheels, I bought a much older car of better quality. My older car is much more reliable than many cars made in the last five to ten years, and the garage mechanic can fix it with recycled parts for a fraction of the cost.


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alisoncc
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22 Jan 2015, 9:39 am

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At the time, a Happy Meal cost less than $5.00 (US). I did as many odd jobs and errands as my health would allow, and when I got sick, I didn't eat.


Surprise surprise, put junk into your system and then complain when your health deteriorates.


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Fnord
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22 Jan 2015, 9:40 am

There is a BIG difference between "having limited funds" and "being poor". The former allows you to determine to some extent what you will have to eat, while the latter means that you have to choose between eating and paying the rent.

You seem to have no idea what it is like to be poor.


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Fnord
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22 Jan 2015, 9:43 am

alisoncc wrote:
Quote:
At the time, a Happy Meal cost less than $5.00 (US). I did as many odd jobs and errands as my health would allow, and when I got sick, I didn't eat.
Surprise surprise, put junk into your system and then complain when your health deteriorates.
Surprise surprise, junk food is all that most poor people can afford.

Places like Trader Joe's - where they sell healthy foods - are way beyond the reach of a poor person's meager finances.

You REALLY have no idea what it is like to be poor.


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alisoncc
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22 Jan 2015, 9:45 am

Don't kid yourself. It takes discipline to put aside money for what is absolutely essential - like a roof over your head, and then with whats left work out how to manage. There's hardly a day when I don't have to.


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Fnord
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22 Jan 2015, 9:58 am

I know how to get out of poverty, and most of it has to do with foregoing food and medical care while working two or three jobs in one day.

When you have no home, there is no roof over your head. There is no stove to prepare food. There is no refrigerator to store leftovers. There is no pantry to store that spelt, rye, and buckwheat flour you brag about. There is no counter-top to prepare food on, or clean water to prepare it with.

When you are homeless, you live a hand-to-mouth existence, and you carry everything you own on your back or push it around in a stolen shopping trolley. Money is hard to come by, so dumpster-diving is how you forage for food. Some days, you get lucky, and you find day-old goods have been neatly boxed up, and the security guard does nothing as you walk away with it. Other days, someone else has been there first, and there is nothing left that even a dog would eat.

Being poor means you have no choice - you have to take whatever is available, if there is anything available at all.

You REALLY have no fecking idea what it is like to be poor!


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kraftiekortie
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22 Jan 2015, 10:19 am

Poverty is called "poverty" for a reason.

It's nothing to romanticize about.



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22 Jan 2015, 10:25 am

alisoncc wrote:
Quote:
When you *HAVE TO* shop at a thrift store for clothes, you are not able to CHOOSE from the latest fashions. You are not able to CHOOSE healthier foods. You are not able to CHOOSE what kind of car you want. You can't even CHOOSE to be frugal.


Sorry, but tend to disagree. Having limited funds means you have to be more intelligent about where you spend what you have.

I buy wholesale spelt, rye and buckwheat flours and make my own bread. A 5lb bag of spelt wholemeal flour costs me less than the price of two loaves of cotton wool and sawdust rubbish from the supermarket, and a 5lb bag will make well over a dozen loaves of my bread.

I presume your thrift stores are the same as our "op" shops - selling "recycled" clothing. There was a time when I used to haunt our local "op" shops, always looking for the best fabrics, which I would then remodel using my sewing machine to produce good quality outfits.

When my daughter helped me out with some cash to buy a car, instead of buying a newish tin can on wheels, I bought a much older car of better quality. My older car is much more reliable than many cars made in the last five to ten years, and the garage mechanic can fix it with recycled parts for a fraction of the cost.


Have you been in a situation where you can't buy groceries because there is no money in the bank at all? Where you have to borrow a car from someone because your 15yr old car's (a good one - a Honda with 250,000 miles on it) entire exhaust system went and you didn't have the money to fix it or buy another one because you had NO MONEY in the bank? And that it would do no good to pay for any of this on credit because you wouldn't be able to afford the payments?

Have you realized an apple doesn't go very far? Have you had "no" be the most common word that comes out of your mouth when your kid asks you for something? And I'm not talking about a 7yr old begging for an Iphone.

I have made my own bread, sewn my own clothes, fixed my own stuff. I know how to MAKE DO.

I have not been homeless like Fnord, but I have known how very scary it can be to live paycheck-to-paycheck. I am so, so, so glad I am not in that position anymore!



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22 Jan 2015, 10:36 am

I once lived on rice and paprika for a whole week.